A question concerning high functioning AS and stims.........

Post Reply New Topic

I've got a pile of research papers regarding the fact that after a given period of development (some say 4-5 years post-diagnosis, some say adulthood, etc.) AS and HFA (with language) are indistinguishable. Another stack that discusses differences between the two in adulthood, and they are so small as to be negligible. I think a lot of it is the type of care and treatment.
I know that if my early language development was not known, I'd probably be looked at as HFA. My behavior is more in tune with that, though I do have the professorial speech.

Seriously. Who cares? It's all HFA. It may not all be HF "Autistic Disorder," but it's all HF "Autistic Spectrum Disorder." In the end, looking at an adult on the spectrum with language, you'd have no idea.

Well, even Professor Attwood, one of the biggest proponents of lumping HFA and AS together will tell you there are distinct differences between the two groups (as it's written in the DSM; he acknowledges such), it's just that the outcome is similar in adults (AS can be "worst" than HFA, and vice versa), and clinically, the treatment is the same.

There are differences, they're just not worth separating in many professionals' eyes (more state that they're different and should be separated, it's like 30 and a bit to 20 and a bit in favour of keeping "HFA" separate from AS in research papers).

I just think it is absurd to say that there is the same amount of social impairment in classic autism and AS when there are people with AS whose social skills are so good that people can't even tell them apart from NTs, while there are people with classic autism who can't even speak.

You are absolutely right. The two people you described have very different degrees of social impairment.
And neither of them is typical of their "label." You've described the highest of high-functioning AS and the most LFA of classic autism.

Edit: Never mind this bit, but the end result is: it can go either way in terms of who succeeds and who does not.

And then there are the scads who are indistinguishable. The great majority.

Are you saying that non-verbal people don't have family to care for them?
Are you saying that given the correct tools, and having someone figure out how to communicate with an LFA won't allow them to have friends?

LFA doesn't mean vegetable, it means unable to communicate in channels that others can understand.
There are research studies going on with music, light/sound combinations, shaped card systems, even simple computer usage that may bring some of the LFA Non-Verbal into the communicating world.... they just don't verbalise their wants/needs like we do.

Actually, I'd say that after you reach the magic age of 21, AS people may have more issues than LFA, people don't expect LFA's to hold a job when they get stressed, there is actual funding for them after childhood, there isn't any in america for AS adults.

edited (as an afterthought):
Here is some "food for thought"
think of a meltdown.... AS, HFA and LFA have them
for AS and HFA that meltdown carries us for 10 minutes to an hour into the realm of LFA
we need the same sensory accomadations (sp?) as the LFA's in order to keep from having them
only we are supposed to go to school, find work, and have children while dealing with sensory input
they may be non-verbal, but how long does it take to figure out what is bothering a non-verbal person when they normally have daily caretakers
just a thought

Just on a slightly different topic.

I just watched some bonus-features of The Terminal directed by Steven Spielberg, and saw how he acts.

He has been officially diagnosed has he not?

In Daniel's argument and some others of that AS is on the same level as HFA, how do you guys percieve Steven Spielberg who seems to have no problems with social interraction, motor mannerisms, tone of voice etc?

I mean, as previously stated in this article, there appears to be a discrepancy between the diagnostic criteria and people's personal experience, or how the Syndrome manifests itself visually (i.e. seeing someone with AS). Steven Spielberg appears to be a perfect example of this discrepancy.

What do you think?

HFA: motor mannerisms (AS isn't known for people rocking/swaying for most of the time), [usually] greater deficits in verbal communication, more socially aloof than socially "eccentric".

People with AS look more "normal" in the majority of cases (a lack of motor mannerisms), but as soon as they talk in a social setting, it'll then show.

People sometimes use the term "HFA" to describe AS, but that's erroneous.

I'm confused.

If AS-HFA people don't stim that much then why do i do it all the time and still keep my diagnoses?????


>-<

People with HFA/LFA (they're the same thing in reality) rock/sway/flap/curl their hands up frequently in comparison to those with AS. This is generally speaking.

Last edited by Danielismyname on 27 Apr 2008, 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I must be HFA and not AS then because i do pretty much all of those...Behind closed doors, of course.

Which can be due to self-awareness from having a more normal cognitive pattern, i.e., you care what you look like to others. If you're by yourself, and you rock almost constantly when you sit-down, or sway when you stand, that's more an autism thing than AS.

I don't care what people think of me, so I sway when I'm out and about.

Heh.

Not really, there opnions don't matter i just don't like the stupid questions.


"what the (*&^ does it LOOK like i'm doing??"

and such.

I just assume I have AS just because I had no verbal delays as a child. In fact I was talking in sentences before my first birthday. But alot of my traits growing up and as an adult seem to fall more in the HFA category than AS. I have a good vocabulary but I'm slow at verbalizing in real life situations, I'm more visual than verbal, I don't like to talk for long periods even with people I'm comfortable around. I stim almost non-stop (finger twisting, swaying, pacing, pinching, hand wiggling, rock when very stressed, sometimes even bite my hands when no one's around). But in alot of other ways I do seem more AS, it's like I go back and forth. I'd say I'd most likely get the AS diagnosis simply because of the early talking.

There's an overlap between AS and autistic disorder in some cases, and it's difficult to discern which one the individual has; some people actually have a bit of both too, which comes under the PDD-NOS label (which is funny to me).

It's common for people with AS to do small hand movements often; those with autistic disorder rock often (people with AS can do this when they're stressed, but nowhere near as often as someone with autistic disorder [in most cases]), it's severity that defines the two.

It's also common for people with AS to talk well from an early age, especially around the family, but they have difficulty in talking to others--peers and strangers.

I'd say you'd be more AS than HFA from you post.

You'll note on Professor Attwood's modified DSM-IV-TR criteria for AS (it's on his website), he neglects the motor mannerisms criterion; his criteria is actually how the DSM-IV-TR should be read as a whole, not just the criteria themselves.

I just read it. The only thing really new to me there was the suggestion that AS individuals may have difficulties expressing thoughts and ideas through speech. For the most part I had been under the impression that people with AS are highly capable speakers, they just blow it by not tailoring it to be socially fitting. There are a few other things too, but you're probably right, all together it looks more AS than anything. My stims I don't think are super noticable either, they're just always there.

On a set topic, i.e., rote memory, the individual with AS will sound like the "little professor". They run into difficulties in putting other thoughts to words in relation to things they aren't interested in, open ended questions; discussing feelings, etcetera.

Not everyone with AS experiences such above, but it's common.