Oh no - I think someone wants to hire me!

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Scheherazade
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25 Apr 2008, 9:54 am

I just left a job that I didn't really enjoy. I was hoping to milk the unemployment for as long as possible because (a) I have no idea what I really want to do with my life but working in an office isnt it, (b) I'm dealing with a lot of depression and diving into another job isn't going to help that, (c) I have this really nice apartment for a couple more months and I have to sort through tons of clutter before I move, and I'd love to spend a few weeks enjoying this apartment once it's clean. Then I'm going to move back in with my parents because I'm pretty seriously in debt and trying to keep an apartment clean and cook for myself and all that other basic lifestyle stuff has been surprisingly hard for me because I feel like there are 8 million other things I need to be doing instead.

I was thinking about maybe going to grad school and working in a lab, or else going to work abroad (because I'm getting older and it's going to get harder and harder to just pick up and leave in the future). But in order to get unemployment I have to be looking for jobs, so I applied for a few, got a few interviews, and now I think one of them is going to hire me.

In some ways I can see myself working there. The commute would be very short. If I rode my bike and lived with my parents I could probably pay off my credit card and parental debt within a year if I don't spend much else (the student loan would still be there, but that's okay). Then after that year, I'd be free to do whatever I want - grad school, work abroad, whatever - and not have my debt hold me back.

On the other hand, that's exactly what I said 2.5 years ago when I took my most recent job, but between the apartment and the night school courses I'm addicted to taking and the book-buying addiction I"ve only just recently kicked, I didn't pay off any debt (other than interest on my student loan). My credit card debt actually went up. Meanwhile I wasted 2 of the best years of my life on a job I hate, just getting myself further entrenched in a career I have no interest in and taking myself further away from any career I'd want to do.

I just want to be a writer. That's all I want to do with my life. The things I need to do to be a writer are time/space to write and freedom to pursue adventure to write about. I would like to continue taking writing workshops and/or english lit courses in night school, but it's not a requirement. Taking this job won't help me be a writer. There's no adventure working in an office. My parents are really antagonistic to me writing - my mom yells at me whenever she sees me reading or writing and my bedroom is the only room in the house with a desk. But on the other hand, paying off some debt might free me next year to be the writer I want to be. But I'm turning 27. It's getting harder and harder to justify spending a year on anything other than my true desire.

The other thing about this job is that it pays about 67% of what my last job paid. But I was overpaid at my last job (government job) and there aren't many jobs that would pay that much for non-managerial work, unless they're unionized.

I'd like to fantasize about accepting the job, paying off debt, and using my free time to improve myself by taking public speaking classes and going to the gym. But I feel like I'm putting myself back in purgatory - delaying what I really want to do in order to do something that *might* make things better in a few years (but, from past experience, really doesn't put me in any better position that where I started, other than making me older).

Grr. What should I do?



Icheb
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25 Apr 2008, 10:14 am

You have no idea how much I can relate to this. Let's just say that I, too, have tried writing... for thirty-five years. And I haven't had any luck with it, even though I sent my last manuscript (my seventh or eighth, depending on how you count) to twenty-six publishers. So while I would love to say, "Do what you like best", I can't really recommend it. And money doesn't smell, you know...

That much said, you should perhaps talk to a vocational adviser, take some sort of aptitude test. Perhaps he can tell you what would be best for you.


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t0
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25 Apr 2008, 11:24 am

I would probably move in with your parents and try to get the financial situation under control. Set a concrete deadline - 1yr or some other timeframe you think is reasonable and reevaluate at that time.

Are you sure that you want to be a writer? I get the impression that you might really just want some adventure in your life and that writing might be your avenue for going out and doing that. If you do want to be a writer, I'd find somewhere else after work or on weekends to write in your free time. A local library perhaps. Concentrate on building a portfolio that you can provide to prospective employers.

Your absolute worst option is to wait to make a decision or stay on unemployment. You won't get financially sound or the job you want doing that.



Willard
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25 Apr 2008, 1:03 pm

Very few fiction writers have the luxury of being able to do it full time, to the exclusion of all else. Even Stephen King kept his day job until he was well established; Michael Chrichton came from a well-to-do background to begin with and still went to Harvard Med school.

Also, I don't think pursuing adventure will make you a better writer. Fiction writing is about imagination, not travelogues.



Scheherazade
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25 Apr 2008, 1:45 pm

t0 wrote:
Are you sure that you want to be a writer? I get the impression that you might really just want some adventure in your life and that writing might be your avenue for going out and doing that. If you do want to be a writer, I'd find somewhere else after work or on weekends to write in your free time. A local library perhaps. Concentrate on building a portfolio that you can provide to prospective employers.


Definitely. I want to be a writer. I hate adventure. I would be happy to live in my little bubble but I know that my writing will improve when I have other experiences to call on - to know what details of my home town are remarkable and what are commonplace. To know different personalities. I have to meet people and meet places to be able to write the way I want to write. If it were up to me I'd just stay in my bedroom and read and write all day but you have to know about things to be able to write about them.

t0 wrote:
Your absolute worst option is to wait to make a decision or stay on unemployment. You won't get financially sound or the job you want doing that.


Yes but it's not quite so simple. I don't plan to stay on unemployment indefinitely. But it's not just this job or no job. It's do I want a boring job that pays slightly better and gives me some comforts (living at home, having access to a car, being able to share the cooking and cleaning and grocery shopping duties with other people) that might afford me more time/energy to focus on developing the 8 million things about myself I want to improve (by taking formal classes and joining a sports team). Or do I want to go to grad school to get a job I sort of like but don't want to be a professor in anyway, that doesn't pay all that well either but at least doesn't make me want to kill myself every day when I go to work? Or do I want to get a job abroad that gives me a chance to develop my social skills, see if I could enjoy a career as a teacher, and explore another country?

I find it hard to make this decision. I think in the long run I'd be happier with the latter two options. The first option makes more financial sense in the short run. But a year from now I'm going to be in mostly the same place. If I'm lucky I will have paid down some of the debt. But I'll still be wondering whether to go abroad or go to grad school or if I'm too old at that point.

People get confused about the writing thing. I'd love to support myself by wriitng novels, but I have zero interest in writing newspaper articles or technical manuals to pay the bills. So I'm okay with writing as a hobby. The problem is if you feel so passionately about your hobby, do you take a job that just pays the bills but may make you feel bad about yourself, or do you take a job that leads to a great career but which may cut into your time/energy to devote to writing?

I've been trying to start living like a writer. I think that means finding work that inspires you, that gives you material to write about, and that pays the bills, but it need not be career-oriented. When you're younger you have this oppounity to live on the wind, to travel and work in different places. So this could mean teaching English in Asia or working on oil rigs or planting trees in the Canadian north or whatever. After a certain point you can settle into a career or go back to school or whatever to establish a path for yourself. But you're more likely to understand the career you're settling in after you've had a chance to meditate on it and read about it and talk to people who've worked in that field. So even though you're starting later you're more likely to land in the right field for you. Plus those years spent vagabonding are not lost - they're still quite valuable for the rest of your career. But if you don't explore those options then you'll just settle in the first path you find.

I don't mind having a day job. I have many interests and I'm happy to do something other than writing. But there are also many jobs that make me miserable. So if I commit to a miserable job that helps me pay off my credit card, it's like telling a clinically depressed person to stop taking their Prozac because they'll save money that way. The other route makes money too, it just starts out a little more slowly.



aaronrey
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25 Apr 2008, 1:54 pm

Good luck with writing! I also enjoy writing but I do it as a hobby. If I can get some income with my writing, that's great but I'll keep my day job for financial security because there's no guarantee I will make it as a writer.

But doing what you enjoy is definitely much better than working a job you don't like even though it gives a much higher and stable income.



megarat
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25 Apr 2008, 3:06 pm

Scheherazade,

I was in your shoes about 15 years ago. I've been an active writer for as long as I can remember (I composed my first novel in 8th grade), and had it as my priority in life when I was 16-24 years old. It was a tough choice, but I did a comprehensive risk-assessment and hedged my bets. That is, I ultimately chose the career route, i.e., take a day-job and write on the side. I discovered a few things along the way, and in case they're helpful, I'll summarize them here.

-- If you're not a fabulously successful writer, it pays nothing. I mean it, it's seriously depressing. Even if you get a few novels published, it's impossible to keep the wolf from the door on that money alone, unless you're living in a car, or on someone's dole.

-- (And being fabulously successful -- even just plain-old-successful -- has more to do with business than art. Which was a depressing discovery. There's a good reason why they call it the "publishing industry". But I digress.)

-- Most "career writers", even published novelists, make ends meet with other (corporate, etc.) writing gigs. I can't stand writing under assignment, so this wasn't a viable option for me.

-- With very few (<0.00001%) exceptions, writers never strike it big the first time. Even that novelist with a terrific, break-out first novel has a large graveyard of failed projects behind them. To get this far it typically takes years, even decades of work.

-- Making some money with a day-job that you like leads to a much-better quality of life than making no money doing (or pursuing) what you love. If it was easy to become a successful writer, I would take this back, but in terms of probability, you're better off buying lottery tickets (and I mean that literally).

-- It's easier to get into a progressive career earlier in life than later. Alas, it's true. That person with a big gap in their resume never looks as good as the person with a solid work history, or fresh out of college.

-- As such, having a career compounds like interest. The collective experience makes you more employable and valuable, and you start making higher salaries. It pays off better over the long term.

-- Having a day-job and writing on the side turned out to be more rewarding than I suspected. In fact, I think it's preferable in a lot of ways. I suspect that I would've burned out had I decided to go whole-hog, but instead I've kept it with me like an old friend, and I'm delighted with how my writing has improved/evolved over the years.

-- If you can't find the time/effort to write on the side while you have a day-job, then you really didn't want to be a writer in the first place.

-- If you write for fun, you're still a "writer".

-- When you get down to it, I didn't want to be a writer as much as I wanted to be a "successful writer". While I truly loved writing, what I really wanted most was to see my books on the shelves, and speak in front of crowds, and have my name recognized by people I didn't know. It seemed like a sexy life, and since I'm too introverted to be an actor or a rock star, it was my dream of fame. Coming to terms with this, and not being hung up on the "success" part was liberating.

I could also share the mathematical argument I also used to make this decision (which might be useful if you're familiar with probability), but I think I should stop here before I get completely irrelevant. I hope it helps anyway.



t0
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25 Apr 2008, 4:16 pm

Scheherazade wrote:
t0 wrote:
Your absolute worst option is to wait to make a decision or stay on unemployment. You won't get financially sound or the job you want doing that.


I find it hard to make this decision. I think in the long run I'd be happier with the latter two options. The first option makes more financial sense in the short run. But a year from now I'm going to be in mostly the same place. If I'm lucky I will have paid down some of the debt. But I'll still be wondering whether to go abroad or go to grad school or if I'm too old at that point.


I still believe my quote above. If the decision is too hard to make right now, move in with your parents and take the job that will help you with your debt. You can spend the next 12 months trying to decide what you really want to do. I don't think a year makes a difference as far as going abroad or to grad school unless you have a terminal illness you haven't told us about.

EDIT: Fix markup.



Scheherazade
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25 Apr 2008, 5:08 pm

t0 wrote:
Scheherazade wrote:
t0 wrote:
Your absolute worst option is to wait to make a decision or stay on unemployment. You won't get financially sound or the job you want doing that.


I find it hard to make this decision. I think in the long run I'd be happier with the latter two options. The first option makes more financial sense in the short run. But a year from now I'm going to be in mostly the same place. If I'm lucky I will have paid down some of the debt. But I'll still be wondering whether to go abroad or go to grad school or if I'm too old at that point.


I still believe my quote above. If the decision is too hard to make right now, move in with your parents and take the job that will help you with your debt. You can spend the next 12 months trying to decide what you really want to do. I don't think a year makes a difference as far as going abroad or to grad school unless you have a terminal illness you haven't told us about.

EDIT: Fix markup.


Not sure I agree with you on that. I think it's better to take a step in the direction of something you *might* like than to do something you know you won't like just because it will make you more comfortable. I mean that's what I've been doing for the last 3 years. 4 years if you count the (inevitably quite expensive) grad school degree I did because it only took a year and it would get me jobs, even though I knew I'd dislike it.

I spent two and a half years working in a job I disliked as a placeholder to discovering "what I really want to do with my life". What makes you think I'm going to be any closer a year from now? I mean, sure, I've discovered about a dozen things I'm going to do next. But until I take that plunge all I can do is weigh their respective merits and eventually discard each new idea because of its imperfections until I feel hopeless and feel like crappy office jobs are something to look forward to.



Scheherazade
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25 Apr 2008, 5:52 pm

I appreciate hearing people reaffirm my well-beaten-in knowledge that writers do not make money but really, that doen't help. Yes, I know if you plan to sit in a room in front of a typewriter or a computer and write stuff and have the checks pile up in your mailbox you will be seriously disappointed.

I spent my whole life thinking I have no place in this universe because I was designed to be a writer but I can't make a career in writing so I guess I'll just do science or medicine or something else because I'm smart. I studied biology in university but there aren't many jobs in that field if you don't want to do QA or do a Masters or PhD. Even if you do a Masters the pay isn't great. Irony of irony: Had I believed as a teenager that I wanted to pursue writing as far as it would take me, I would have studied English. With an English degree I could have worked in editing, advertising, journalism, etc. With a biology degree I can....? Go back to school and become a biology teacher. Or go back to school to become a lab technician. Or go back to school to become a doctor.

megarat wrote:
-- It's easier to get into a progressive career earlier in life than later. Alas, it's true. That person with a big gap in their resume never looks as good as the person with a solid work history, or fresh out of college. As such, having a career compounds like interest. The collective experience makes you more employable and valuable, and you start making higher salaries. It pays off better over the long term.


Oh god. Who knows what "progressive" career I should be doing. I've tried quite a few progressive careers. Invested time and energy into working and studying in those fields. I don't want to progress because progression just means eventually you're going to have to manage people and run a department. I don't want to be a professor. I'm a Gemini. I can fall in love with one subject one month but the next month I have a new love. You can't be a professor in that. You can't even have a progressive career in changing your focus, unless you're a journalist. I've thought about journalism, but I'm way too socially phobic and afraid of rejection and unwise to the world to do that. And journalism pays about as much as Starbucks does.

If I'd known better as a kid I would've told myself I'd be a writer, studied English in university, started teaching English in high schools and wrote on the side. So there you have a quite comfortably-paying career (in Canada at least) on the side of what you really want to do. But I have no interest in teaching biology to high school students. So scratch that option.


megarat wrote:
-- If you can't find the time/effort to write on the side while you have a day-job, then you really didn't want to be a writer in the first place.


The point I was making was that some, but not all, jobs do infringe on the time or energy you have to devote to a hobby such as writing. A job that uses too many of the same energies - sitting at a desk, working on a computer, writing prose, reading - can tax your reserves for writing. A job that makes you work 70 hours a week may just leave you too exhausted to pursue your hobby.

This is why I say, I want to be a writer. I don't want to sit alone in my bedroom at my parents' house writing stories and checking my mailbox every day with hopes of an acceptance letter. I want to write things and I want a day job that pays my bills and enables me to write things. I think that means a job that doesn't depress me, that doesn't demand I work with words on a computer all day, and that exposes me to interesting material (whether it's interesting characters I work with or different situations). Problem is there are a number of jobs that can fit this bill, whether it's traveling and teaching abroad (new setting = new material, plus you get to meet a lot of people, which is somethng I otherwise avoid), or working in a lab (a very physical setting that is almost the opposite of working with words all day). That's how I envision my writing life. NOT writing from 9-to-5, but having a 9-to-5 job that makes me happy and energized to come home and write.

So taking a crappy job that will pay off some debt is basically just postponing the writing life. It's saying, pay off your bills now and then in a year you will do.... what? Some writing or something. Maybe you will be able to write on the side, but it's a little harder when you've been sitting in front of a computer all day to want to come home and sit in front of another one. When you're depressed with your life it's harder to come home and write on the days when you're not right in the middle of a story.

megarat wrote:
-- When you get down to it, I didn't want to be a writer as much as I wanted to be a "successful writer". While I truly loved writing, what I really wanted most was to see my books on the shelves, and speak in front of crowds, and have my name recognized by people I didn't know.


I wish I could brush it off so easily. To me, those seem like the worst parts of writing. I would hate to be so popular that people wanted to interview me or come to my readings or watch me on some book TV show. (Actually it would probably be worse to have to give a reading to an empty room, but same deal). All I want to do is sit in a room and make up stories. I can do that when I have other things going on the side that I'm comfortable with. But any time I've been in a place where my "other life" dominated my time or mental energy (as with my grad degree in the field I hated and my most recent job in the office) my muse took to drinking and he kept calling in sick to work, whether I showed up at the computer or not. Any time I've had an "other life" that fit the quirks of my personality (as when I worked in a lab, or when I was in my undergrad university years), or at least provided some sort of stimulation (travel, odd coworkers, problem-solving) then I've had no problem squeezing my writing life into every spare moment I could find.

But I have the luxury of having this choice and I just don't know what to do with it. I don't want a progressive career. I'd be happy with a fairly flat career path in a field where flat careers are acceptable. Teaching, for example, is a field where you're not expected to become a principal or a schoolboard administrator in order to prove your value. Working in science with a Masters degree is an acceptable route. And I disagree that you need to keep progressing to build any esteem. That's true in some fields - especially in business. But these days there is much more value placed on having lived abroad.

Point is, I'm 27 years old. I feel like you can be justified in exploring different career paths while you're in your 20s. After 20 people think there is something wrong with you. I already regret NOT having explored myself, so I know those feelings will not go away if I choose not to explore myself now. They will only mean that when I"m 32 or 37 I'll be trying to figure out if I can take a year and do something else.

So that's what I mean by being a writer. If people hadn't beaten into me that you CANNOT BE A WRITER OR YOU WILL STARVE from the age of 12, I would have gone into life differently. I would have made sure to travel and to try out different jobs when I was younger. I would have tried harder to meet people even though it scared me. The justification for this would always be "for my writing" but really there are many other rewards than that. I would sell it to myself, to break down my fears, as being something for a novel I'm writing. But in the end, I'd have greater comfort with other people, I'd have more flexibility, and I'd probably have more epxerience leading and teaching people. Then in the end that all would help me find probably a better job than if I just graduated and wanted to find a safe, comfortable job to pay off my debts. And all of those skills are the ones you need to be promoted into higher-level positions, to build that "progressive" career. And they're skills I'm sorely lacking right now.

So. I told myself for a decade that I would not be a writer. That decade was filled with depression and an absence of self-esteem. I pursued a few different career paths and abandoned all of them. I'm not sure how this is better for me. So I am abandoning all that. I am telling myself that I WILL be a writer. Yes, megarat, maybe that just means I'm working on a novel while I ride the subway to my real job in the morning. Doesn't much matter. In my dream the novel is the focus of my life, but who cares if that's the reality. But what is important to me is that I settle on some sort of career path that FITS that writer ambition. By which I mean: a career that I enjoy and that doesn't work me to death. But I mention that the writing is my first focus, because if I don't then people inevitably try to solve my dilemma with the follow-your-dream diagnosis. In my case, my dream is to facilitate my hobby. Now how do I make that work?