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Dogbrain
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09 Sep 2008, 3:17 pm

I've heard the stupidest idea to dislike Sarah Palin, yet. There really are out-of-touch ivory-tower snobs out there who have said that Sarah Palin ought not be Vice President because she is too much like an ordinary person! A great writer had something rather piquant to say about that sort of attitude:


"The worst form of slavery is that which is called Caesarism, or the choice of some bold or brilliant man as despot because he is suitable. For that means that men choose a representative, not because he represents them, but because he does not. Men trust an ordinary man like George III or William IV. because they are themselves ordinary men and understand him. Men trust an ordinary man because they trust themselves. But men trust a great man because they do not trust themselves. And hence the worship of great men always appears in times of weakness and cowardice; we never hear of great men until the time when all other men are small."

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saintetienne
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09 Sep 2008, 3:20 pm

surely there are enough intelligent ideas to dislike sarah palin



ShawnWilliam
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09 Sep 2008, 3:21 pm

that was actually a great quote.. thanks! :thumleft:



monty
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09 Sep 2008, 3:51 pm

Well, for decades, people on both sides have been asking the question "Which candidate would you rather have a beer with?" - Seems the ordinary Joe factor is of interest to some people.

For me, the choice is between policy directions. I don't need to grant sainthood or disciple of the devil status to any of the candidates, or as many men around me have done, drool over the anatomy of one of the candidates. It's about which policies do I think are best? Which presidential candidate offers a better vision of where we should go in terms of jobs, health care, education, alternative energy, and other issues we face?



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09 Sep 2008, 3:57 pm

I don't want an ordinary person running my government. I want an extraordinary person. In sports and business, no one minds that the strongest, hardest-working, most genetically-blessed people climb their way to the top, but in government, how DARE you have an IQ above 100! How DARE you engage in intellectual pursuits! How DARE you seem like someone who could put a sentence together! How DARE you have experience! etc. etc.

This post does not apply to my thoughts on the Palin situation, but rather my exasperation with the fact that "elitist" has become the greatest insult in American politics. Why this worship of the dull, the irrational, the average politician, the "guy I can have a beer with?" Do we really want Larry, the guy from the local bar who writes fake letters to Penthouse and believes the Green Bay Packers to be civilization's crowning achievement, with the US nuclear arsenal at his disposal? Do we want Kate, the homemaker who thinks that the inner-city school crisis could be solved with school prayer and bake sales, in charge of the department of education? Everyday people are fit for everyday jobs. Leader of the free world is not an everyday job.

George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. Abraham Lincoln. Franklin D. Roosevelt. They were not elitists; they sympathized with the common man to an extraordinary degree. However, they themselves were not common men, but great ones. That's the kind of people we want running the government: those who are elite but not elitist. Talent, leadership, and intelligence do not imply arrogance. Give quality a chance!


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09 Sep 2008, 4:56 pm

Sara Palins church can pray your gayness away :roll:


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JerryHatake
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09 Sep 2008, 5:00 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:

George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. Abraham Lincoln. Franklin D. Roosevelt. They were not elitists; they sympathized with the common man to an extraordinary degree. However, they themselves were not common men, but great ones. That's the kind of people we want running the government: those who are elite but not elitist. Talent, leadership, and intelligence do not imply arrogance. Give quality a chance!


You realize that Washington and Jefferson were part of the Virginian Gentry Class which meant they were rich and elite but they did care for the common people unlike some. An example in this year's election, McCain is basically going to keep Bush's policies. McCain's idea of middle class is people who make 5 million dollars a year which is truly an elitist view of our society. Obama is more down with the common man with a beginning like Old Hickory had. Virginia is the state that will determine this election because the tightness between the candidates unlike the other states.


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Awesomelyglorious
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09 Sep 2008, 8:18 pm

Bah, I think I want a president like Andrew Jackson, barely educated, good at killing people, and capable of overthrowing every institute of government if someone or something pisses him off.

But anyway, to be honest, I hate half of the examples given by MissPickwickian as great presidents. Then again, I hate the half that tried to destroy our system(suspending habeas corpus? trying to force the supreme court to agree with you? :roll: )

Also, if you are trying to convince elitists like MissPickwickian to support Obama, you should bring up his academic credentials as a legal lecturer at a major university.



Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 09 Sep 2008, 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Awesomelyglorious
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09 Sep 2008, 8:21 pm

Dogbrain wrote:
I've heard the stupidest idea to dislike Sarah Palin, yet. There really are out-of-touch ivory-tower snobs out there who have said that Sarah Palin ought not be Vice President because she is too much like an ordinary person! A great writer had something rather piquant to say about that sort of attitude:


"The worst form of slavery is that which is called Caesarism, or the choice of some bold or brilliant man as despot because he is suitable. For that means that men choose a representative, not because he represents them, but because he does not. Men trust an ordinary man like George III or William IV. because they are themselves ordinary men and understand him. Men trust an ordinary man because they trust themselves. But men trust a great man because they do not trust themselves. And hence the worship of great men always appears in times of weakness and cowardice; we never hear of great men until the time when all other men are small."

--Chesterton.

Hmm... I think ordinary men should not trust themselves on these matters. In fact, if they stopped voting completely I'd be fine with that. The sooner that people recognize that they are far out of their field in politics, the better. Not only that, but at what time have people not shown weakness or cowardice, both of these traits are the lifeblood of government, so we might as well accept our flaws rather than contradict ourselves.



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09 Sep 2008, 9:24 pm

Considering her life style and her political attitudes, Palin fills the bill for being hypocritical enough to satisfy any criteria as a popular candidate.



JerryHatake
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09 Sep 2008, 11:49 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Bah, I think I want a president like Andrew Jackson, barely educated, good at killing people, and capable of overthrowing every institute of government if someone or something pisses him off.

But anyway, to be honest, I hate half of the examples given by MissPickwickian as great presidents. Then again, I hate the half that tried to destroy our system(suspending habeas corpus? trying to force the supreme court to agree with you? :roll: )

Also, if you are trying to convince elitists like MissPickwickian to support Obama, you should bring up his academic credentials as a legal lecturer at a major university.
\

You realize that Lincoln suspend habeas corpus due to a rebellion (The War between the States) which is stated in the Constitution that can be done.


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chever
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10 Sep 2008, 12:14 am

I want the president to be as elite as is possible


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Awesomelyglorious
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10 Sep 2008, 12:31 am

delete



Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 10 Sep 2008, 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Awesomelyglorious
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10 Sep 2008, 12:32 am

JerryHatake wrote:
You realize that Lincoln suspend habeas corpus due to a rebellion (The War between the States) which is stated in the Constitution that can be done.

No, it isn't. Congress can do that, Lincoln, as awesome as his beard may be, cannot. That is the difference and it is significant. I also actually hate Andrew Jackson too.

In fact, I hate most presidents. I also really don't care about the Civil War much either.

Both of the presidents I mentioned were on a recent article on Cracked.com for their failings.
http://www.cracked.com/article_16590_6- ... anity.html



JerryHatake
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10 Sep 2008, 5:17 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
JerryHatake wrote:
You realize that Lincoln suspend habeas corpus due to a rebellion (The War between the States) which is stated in the Constitution that can be done.

No, it isn't. Congress can do that, Lincoln, as awesome as his beard may be, cannot. That is the difference and it is significant. I also actually hate Andrew Jackson too.

In fact, I hate most presidents. I also really don't care about the Civil War much either.

Both of the presidents I mentioned were on a recent article on Cracked.com for their failings.
http://www.cracked.com/article_16590_6- ... anity.html


I believe Lincoln asked Congress in the first place and that cracked site is a humor site not an educational nor historical accurate site. The problem here I believe that you shouldn't believe humor sites when "true" historians are the better source. You don't even realize that Lincoln is one of the top three best presidents along Washington and FDR. The point of the matter is that research for evidence yourself is the best way to form your own opinions.


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