HOW DO YOU ARGUE WITH THE IGNORANT??????????

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I suppose I should just forget about having friends then. In my experience this type of thing is the rule more than the exception. If you've never experienced this then either you got lucky or people just treat you better.

I don't see any need to argue on any point other than that I think my complaint/grievance is a valid one.

Why wasn't it better than being stubborn and rude? You can't expect someone like that to automatically know that you aren't enjoying the interaction. They shouldn't be punished with rudeness for something they're unaware of.

Why can't you just be honest? Listen to them for a little while then tell them you'd really like to go do something else when you get bored?

That seems rude to me.

You're probably right and I realize this. It's just that when it takes me so much effort to make friends it's hard to just tell them to get lost, especially if there are times when I do enjoy the person's company. Also, I'm really [not] asking for any advice. I was just pointing out my frustration with this kind of thing, commenting about situations I thought were similar to the topic of this thread.

First off I do think Adam might have been a little too stubborn with his GF but I can still relate to what he's saying. Second I think that's kind of a straw man argument. I have a much milder version of AS/autism than someone who would do that.

No but American Idol is a good example of the kind of thing people talk about. It's a reality competition show. Other than that I don't know too much.

Last edited by marshall on 20 Jan 2009, 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OK. I understood.


I was very tired.


Monologue Well, I was a kid. Like, 15 years old. I did expect him to know it. I was thinking "What`s WRONG with him? F..ck!"


Mother Nature is cruel. It`s not punishment, it`s removal of autistic genes from the gene pool. I guess in the african savannah he would`ve died from stress at a very young age.
I`m reading "love and dating" forum... it`s still like in the savannah (the removal of the genes).
Well, at least Adam has a girlfriend... frankly, I`d like to talk with her.


This is not how it works. If you are not social enough, you are at a HUGE disadvantage. We the sentient apes, are social creatures. It`s who we are.
Of course I can be honest and tell them like it is... this is a good way to make a lot of enemies and to lose friends Sorry, THIS is how it works. The rules of the game were created when language(s) didn`t even exist. Hence the problem.


I guess so.


I understood.


And I cannot.
I can understand that intellectually, but I can`t relate.
I`m not sure the way he treats his girl has something to do with autism, though.


OK.

It all makes me quite sad... people on this forum are sentient too, not retards or scizophrenics, but I can`t relate to them.
I don`t have any advices or anything... I`d rather not post here anymore.

Okay. That’s understandable. At 15 I probably would’ve thought the same thing. I was more like that kid when I was 7 or so (a monologue-er).


Well I think the genes aren’t being removed as much as in the past and that’s why the incidence of autism is increasing.

Well I think we’re sentient enough as a species to make exceptions to some social conventions for some individuals where there is knowledge of a disability. If it’s going to be the law of the jungle we might as well go all out and start acting like brutes. If someone’s rude/annoying the new social convention is to club the motherf***er over the head. Problem solved. Yay!

Yup. I think we’re all aware that assholes often have to lie in order to not be seen as assholes. I don’t really care what people say, I care what they think. If I suspect someone’s hiding something from me I just assume they’re an as*hole.

It’s nice to know that it isn’t just us that lacks empathy (not an insult to you). I admit that I can’t relate to most people and most people can’t relate to me. The inability to relate goes both ways, it’s just that we get pegged with it because we have the minority perspective.

Exactemundo.

Wow! I never knew I could encourage such lively debate. I love listening (or should I say reading) your guys views.

Yes. I.e., our inability to understand is tagged as being a problem because we can't relate to a 'normal' viewpoint that we 'should' be able to, but an NT's inability to relate is of no importance; the attitude is one of feeling no obligation to even attempt to understand because our viewpoint is the 'weird/wrong' one.

I'm perhaps bitter on these kinds of topics due to years of being told by my own family that, in a nutshell, everyone else can do exactly as they please and I should just keep quiet and try to fit in with what they want each time, because their way of life is normal and mine is abnormal.

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Last edited by Katze on 22 Jan 2009, 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Or ignorant arguing?

You can't convince an ignorant person if he doesn't want to be convinced. That's one of the key things to keep in mind when it comes to approaching an argument.

Yes, but can ignorance be defined as rigidity of thought?

And ignorance =/= stupidity

I never said ignorance=stupid, and I never said ignorance is the same as having fixed views.

It was ironic, because right after I posted my last post I checked my facebook and one of my ultra-conservative friends had written on my wall stating that Obama's first day in office was a failure because he didn't accomplish anything. He backed up his statement by citing that Ronald Reagen freed all of the American hostages being held in Iran on his first day in office.

Talk about ignorant.

(for those who don't know, the hostages were released on the first day of Reagen's presidency because the Iranians wanted to stick it to Reagen's predecessor, Jimmy Carter, and had nothing to do with the actions of Reagen)

Thank you for your posts. I don't know if you'll come back and read this or not, but your post on the subject is exactly what many of us, especially myself, need to hear. I often peg people stupid, not because they don't agree with me as much as they refuse to listen to me. In my life, I repeat probably 95% of the things I say at least twice, and probably 50% at least three times or more. From, did you change that diaper? to my monologue about my near death incident, people have just learned to tune me out. As if Aspergers in communicative settings isn't frustrating enough.

I will say that I often deem people stupid before I give them a real chance, and it's not really fair to them or myself. Plus, I've been noticing that it might be an NT thing to not reveal your true self early on, so their FIRST arguments in a debate tend to be simple and stupid sounding. Like Aspies want to play all their best cards first, but NT's get rid of all the bad cards before revealing that ace they got. I think it's a survival tactic as well as an etiquette on the NT part. Plus, I think Aspies take character bashing more personally than NT's, so when an NT threatens our intentions, our intelligence, or anything of that nature, we get on the defensive side.

A tip though, many times us Aspies come across like we aren't listening when we are, and better than anyone else would. I know I'm a much better listener when I am trying not to listen than many NTs are (as I've already said I seem to repeat myself a lot...and people wonder why I have a habit of saying the same thing over and over again in different ways...that's why..my family trained me to do that). Aspies are more apt to not listen to you when we are involved in our interest than in a debate. I prioritize what I listen to a lot, and if I don't place it as a priority, then I toss it aside in my mind for later. Sometimes, I don't respond to good points when I'm not ready to cave. I will ignore any attempt to changing the subject when I'm heated on the subject. I don't know if this is Aspie or me, but I have to have closure. I can't function without it, so when I'm debating or arguing with a loved one, I have to see it through or I go crazy.

I do think it's therapeutic to go on an NT witchfest (trying to avoid real cuss words, sorry) once in a while. Kinda like how girls frustrated with dating will often get together and man bash. This forum is a great instrument for it. I'm sure many people are like me and can take a good look around, and the only other Aspie around them is in the next generation in their family, if they are even that lucky. So this is a place where you can talk with other Aspies who know where you are coming from.

I complain about my husband all the time. I still love him and want to be married to him, so obviously I don't really mean all the things I say about him. Also, when I do complain about him, many times so as not to incriminate against him personally, I generalize it into a man bashing moment. I.e. husband didn't take out the trash after I asked him three times to do it. Hmm, now it's "Why don't men know how to take out the trash anymore? They just use women's lib to be lazy." I just need to vent once in a while. I go through it with NT's as well. But, if you can go through life without complaining about anyone around you in a generalized fashion, then go for it, but that would include grouping any drivers in a state, blondes, brunettes, men, women, kids, babies, cats, dogs, ... and Aspies who complain about NT's.

I don't even like the word NT. I have meet alot of NT more weird or disturbed than me. Where all the same, black - white, Aspies - non aspie. I dis-like the differentation.