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Death_of_Pathos
Deinonychus
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25 Jan 2009, 7:20 pm

While studying for my upcoming Cal B I plugged one problem I was having problems with into Wolfram's Integral Calculator. I got an unexpectedly long answer... does Wolfram often do this or was I just lucky?

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pakled
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25 Jan 2009, 7:47 pm

Please tell me this isn't one equation...;)



Death_of_Pathos
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25 Jan 2009, 7:57 pm

pakled wrote:
Please tell me this isn't one equation...;)


Yes, yes it is. It is the integral of (x^5)(sec x)... according to Wolfram. Coincidentally, I dont know hot to integrate that properly. Any ideas WP?



ruveyn
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25 Jan 2009, 8:19 pm

pakled wrote:
Please tell me this isn't one equation...;)


This isn't one equation. I only wrote this because you said please.

ruveyn



Stevo_the_Human
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25 Jan 2009, 9:36 pm

http://integrals.wolfram.com/index.jsp?expr=5^(x)+Sec[x]&random=false


HOW THE HELL DOES IT WORK!?
I need ask my old math teacher :lol:



Dussel
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26 Jan 2009, 4:10 am

Death_of_Pathos wrote:
pakled wrote:
Please tell me this isn't one equation...;)


Yes, yes it is. It is the integral of (x^5)(sec x)... according to Wolfram. Coincidentally, I dont know hot to integrate that properly. Any ideas WP?


The following way may be used:

∫(u (x) v'(x)) dx = u (x) v (x) - ∫(u' (x) v(x)) dx

u (x) := x^5
v' (x) := sec (x)

so we need v (x):

v (x) = ∫sec (x) = ∫(1/cos (x))dx

according to Bronshtein, 1.1.3.3, #327:

v (x) = ln (tan (x/2 + π/4))

so we can say:

∫(x^5 sec (x)) dx = x^5 * (ln (tan (x/2 + π/4))) - ∫((x^4)/6 * (ln (tan (x/2 + π/4)))) dx

Not to make more complicated we define:

X_1 = x^5 * (ln (tan (x/2 + π/4)))
X_2 = ((x^4)/6 * (ln (tan (x/2 + π/4))))

and have:

∫(x^5 sec (x)) dx = X_1 + ∫X_2 dx

To solve

∫X_2 dx

we need to redefine u and v:

u (x) := (x^4)/6
v' (x) := (ln (tan (x/2 + π/4)))) dx

If you make a substitution of

w := (x/2 + π/4)

with

dw/dx = 1/2
dx = 2dw

you have

v (x) = ∫(v'(x)) dx = ∫(ln (tan (w)) dx = ∫2(ln (tan (w)) dw

and

s := tan (w)
ds/dw = - ln (cos s)
dw = (-1)/(ln (cos s))

you have

v (x) = ∫(-2) ln (s)/(ln (cos (s))) ds

if you transform this into a form of

∫(g (x) (f'(x)/f(x)))dx

with

∫(f'(x)/f(x))dx = ln |f(x)|

the term X_2 shall be able to solve quite simply. The rest is on you, but I am quite certain that the solution is a lesser monster than the automatically created wolfram-version.



Last edited by Dussel on 26 Jan 2009, 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

ruveyn
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26 Jan 2009, 6:06 am

Death_of_Pathos wrote:
While studying for my upcoming Cal B I plugged one problem I was having problems with into Wolfram's Integral Calculator. I got an unexpectedly long answer... does Wolfram often do this or was I just lucky?



How does one determine if that monstrosity is even correct. It looks like something Ramanujan would have jotted down on a rainy afternoon in England.

ruveyn



pakled
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26 Jan 2009, 10:13 pm

sometimes I just don't know when to keep my mouth shut. I'm just a hardware jockey, I never got past Algebra 2...;)



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28 Jan 2009, 1:02 am

Wow. That equation looks fun! Put that on a test and see the teacher go crazy! lol It looks like Wolfram gave out Fourier transforms with complex variables? Then again, I'm just starting to relearn math again. I most likely am wrong.



BryceEason
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28 Jan 2009, 1:36 am

pakled wrote:
sometimes I just don't know when to keep my mouth shut. I'm just a hardware jockey, I never got past Algebra 2...;)


Same here, I never got past Algebra 1...Yet somehow I graduated.



Dussel
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28 Jan 2009, 6:22 am

I could not stop myself on working further on this "little nut" and it is really not trivial to find an elegant solution.



Shiggily
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28 Jan 2009, 8:13 am

Dussel wrote:
I could not stop myself on working further on this "little nut" and it is really not trivial to find an elegant solution.


it is a matter of integration by parts. You can only integrate it one way (by reducing the x^5) because the antiderivative of sec... still includes sec. So your answer will keep getting more and more complicated until the x^5 is gone.


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Shiggily
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28 Jan 2009, 9:49 am

Dussel wrote:
I could not stop myself on working further on this "little nut" and it is really not trivial to find an elegant solution.


my chinese math professor would give insane problems like that and tell us to find a "tricky" and if we couldn't solve it in 3 sentences or less it was wrong.

when I look at that I keep thinking that there is a tricky to make it easier.


like integrating e^x*sinx something.


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Dussel
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28 Jan 2009, 10:40 am

Shiggily wrote:
my chinese math professor would give insane problems like that and tell us to find a "tricky" and if we couldn't solve it in 3 sentences or less it was wrong.


I think in the meanwhile the idea to go via

∫(u (x) v'(x)) dx = u (x) v (x) - ∫(u' (x) v(x)) dx

is too obvious, I play around more on the line of

∫(g (x) (f'(x)/f(x)))dx

with

∫(f'(x)/f(x))dx = ln |f(x)|


Shiggily wrote:
like integrating e^x*sinx something.


Could be



Shiggily
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29 Jan 2009, 2:32 am

Dussel wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
my chinese math professor would give insane problems like that and tell us to find a "tricky" and if we couldn't solve it in 3 sentences or less it was wrong.


I think in the meanwhile the idea to go via

∫(u (x) v'(x)) dx = u (x) v (x) - ∫(u' (x) v(x)) dx

is too obvious, I play around more on the line of

∫(g (x) (f'(x)/f(x)))dx

with

∫(f'(x)/f(x))dx = ln |f(x)|


Shiggily wrote:
like integrating e^x*sinx something.


Could be


you could also play with trig identities or still use
∫(u (x) v'(x)) dx = u (x) v (x) - ∫(u' (x) v(x)) dx but with nontraditional u and v subs.


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Dussel
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29 May 2009, 4:34 am

I played around with this integral last night and I found a quite straight forward way to solve it;

Code:
X = ∫x^5/cos (x) dx

cos (x) = (exp (ix) + exp (-ix))/2


so we have:

Code:
X = 2∫x^5/(exp (ix) + exp (-ix))

u := exp (ix)

du/dx = i exp (ix)
dx = du/(i exp (ix) = du/(i u)

u = exp (ix)
ln (u) = ix
x = (ln u)/i
x^5 = (ln u)^5/i


so we can write further:

Code:
X = 2/i ∫(ln (u)^5)/(u + 1/u)
= 2/i ∫u/(u^2 + 1) (ln (u)^5)

g (x) := (ln (u))^5--> g' (x) = (5 ln (u))^4)/u
v' (x) := u/(u^2 + 1) --> v (x) = (ln (u^2 + 1))/2

X = 2/i (((ln (u))^5 ln (u^2 + 1))) - 5/2∫(ln (u))^4) (u^2 + 1)/u du


We define further:
Code:
A := ∫(ln (u))^4) (u^2 + 1)/u du
=  ∫((ln (u))^4)/u du + ∫u ((ln (u))^4) du


For both integral Bronstein shows solution in integral No. 470 and 473. So it is less tricky than originally thought