Page 1 of 2 [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,765
Location: Room 101

29 Jan 2009, 8:53 pm

The US national anthem sucks, and is usually performed even worse than it actually is to compound the problem (the song was not written to be sung at 40bpm). Who would you say has the best national anthem? My vote goes to the Soviet Union.

Sung by the Red Army Choir.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLi_m656tQQ[/youtube]

And in English, by one of the greatest American bass singers of all time. Note that it is not an exact translation (more of a paraphrase) and the lyrics were changed after this recording to reflect an ideological shift following the death of Joseph Stalin.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtU3vUOa2sw&feature=related[/youtube]

Is a good national anthem important to the strength, honour, or prestige of a nation? Does the lack of a rousing anthem reflect poorly on a nation's culture? What themes should the ideal national anthem reflect? Should anthems, as it traditional, emphasize military glory and general delusions of grandeur, or should they be rooted in what makes that nation unique (ie an American national anthem taken from some classic jazz tune)? Any thoughts?


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 81
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

29 Jan 2009, 9:04 pm

Only one problem. The Soviet Union was an abomination and a bastion of evil deeds. Under Stalin it was as monstrous as Nazi Germany. Stalin probably produced a higher body count than Hitler. The S.U. was the Evil Empire. Once it got a sane premier under the age of 80 it fell apart. Credit goes to M. Gorbachev for not being a crazy.

Somehow I cannot judge the quality of the anthem separate from the quality of the nation for which it was sung.

I propose that the Marsiallaise was a better N.A. than the Star Spangled Banner even if it was a trifle bloody.

ruveyn



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,765
Location: Room 101

29 Jan 2009, 9:07 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Only one problem. The Soviet Union was an abomination and a bastion of evil deeds. Under Stalin it was as monstrous as Nazi Germany. Stalin probably produced a higher body count than Hitler. The S.U. was the Evil Empire. Once it got a sane premier under the age of 80 it fell apart. Credit goes to M. Gorbachev for not being a crazy.

Somehow I cannot judge the quality of the anthem separate from the quality of the nation for which it was sung.

I propose that the Marsiallaise was a better N.A. than the Star Spangled Banner even if it was a trifle bloody.

ruveyn

Yes, the Soviet Union was deeply flawed. You won't ever find me defending Stalin. But listen to that anthem! In terms of a national hymn, the Soviets kicked our American asses. They also embarrassed us pretty badly in chess. Anyways, they still have the same tune for the Russian anthem, but obviously different words.

The Marseillaise was every bit as much the anthem of a brutal and barbaric regime as was the Soviet anthem. Still, the Marseillaise is certainly a more rousing tune than the Star Spangled Banner.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,316
Location: Omnipresent

29 Jan 2009, 9:11 pm

http://www.cracked.com/article_16735_6- ... -fear.html

You people need to look at this article. It's done some of the research for you.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 81
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

29 Jan 2009, 9:18 pm

Orwell wrote:
Yes, the Soviet Union was deeply flawed. You won't ever find me defending Stalin. But listen to that anthem! In terms of a national hymn, the Soviets kicked our American asses. They also embarrassed us pretty badly in chess. Anyways, they still have the same tune for the Russian anthem, but obviously different words.

The Marseillaise was every bit as much the anthem of a brutal and barbaric regime as was the Soviet anthem. Still, the Marseillaise is certainly a more rousing tune than the Star Spangled Banner.


Deeply flawed?? It was f**king evil! Marxism cannot co-exist with a reasonable degree of democracy and rights, particularly when Lenin who was both smart and evil twisted it.

France more or less redeemed itself after the Terror with the elimination of Robespierre (what a piece of work he was). After Napoleon's political and physical demise, France became less of a threat to its neighbors. The French redeemed themselves from the Terror.

For a National Anthem for the U.S. I would favor -America, the Beautiful-. It is a benign hymn celebrating the beauty and fruitfulness of the land. A peaceful anthem. Unfortunately Francis Scott Keyes got dibsey's because the War of 1812 was a significant event that made the U.S.A. tough enough to survive.

ruveyn



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,765
Location: Room 101

29 Jan 2009, 9:35 pm

ruveyn wrote:
For a National Anthem for the U.S. I would favor -America, the Beautiful-. It is a benign hymn celebrating the beauty and fruitfulness of the land. A peaceful anthem. Unfortunately Francis Scott Keyes got dibsey's because the War of 1812 was a significant event that made the U.S.A. tough enough to survive.

I'd prefer America the Beautiful as well, even if it is a cheap knock-off of Britain's crappy anthem. I'd been under the impression that the War of 1812 was pretty lame overall.

AG, you like referring to cracked, don't you?


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,316
Location: Omnipresent

29 Jan 2009, 10:22 pm

Orwell wrote:
AG, you like referring to cracked, don't you?

It is a good substitute for thinking.



DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,067
Location: Victoria, Australia

29 Jan 2009, 11:11 pm

The Internationale of course :wink:


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,765
Location: Room 101

29 Jan 2009, 11:15 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
The Internationale of course :wink:

That's not really a national anthem, but I'll take it, you commie bastard. Do you have a favourite rendition?
This was the first one I found.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suVB3YGIUk0[/youtube]
And in English.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcXNXKtu8z4&feature=related[/youtube]

Feel free to post a Youtube of your favourite anthem so we can all hear it.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,876
Location: Finland

29 Jan 2009, 11:20 pm

All the anthems mentioned are more or less militant claims on the rights of the people and inspirations to violence in protecting the nation. What is needed is a recognition of the viciousness and cruelty and corruption in present culture and a hope of better times and kinder people as in Leonard Bernstein's wistful song for a better place and time out of "West Side Story" "Somewhere".



DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,067
Location: Victoria, Australia

29 Jan 2009, 11:22 pm

Sand wrote:
All the anthems mentioned are more or less militant claims on the rights of the people and inspirations to violence in protecting the nation. What is needed is a recognition of the viciousness and cruelty and corruption in present culture and a hope of better times and kinder people as in Leonard Bernstein's wistful song for a better place and time out of "West Side Story" "Somewhere".


Do not put the Internatioanle into that group, otherwise I will have to send you for re-education :lol:


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,876
Location: Finland

29 Jan 2009, 11:35 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Sand wrote:
All the anthems mentioned are more or less militant claims on the rights of the people and inspirations to violence in protecting the nation. What is needed is a recognition of the viciousness and cruelty and corruption in present culture and a hope of better times and kinder people as in Leonard Bernstein's wistful song for a better place and time out of "West Side Story" "Somewhere".


Do not put the Internatioanle into that group, otherwise I will have to send you for re-education :lol:



Arise, you prisoners of starvation!
Arise, you wretched of the earth!
For justice thunders condemnation:
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us,
Arise you slaves, no more in thrall!
The earth shall rise on new foundations:
We have been nought, we shall be all!
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international soviet
Shall be the human race
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race
Second stanza
No more deluded by reaction,
On tyrants only we'll make war!
The soldiers too will take strike action,
They'll break ranks and fight no more!
And if those cannibals keep trying,
To sacrifice us to their pride,
They soon shall hear the bullets flying,
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
Let no one build walls to divide us,
Walls of hatred nor walls of stone.
Come greet the dawn and stand beside us,
We'll live together or we'll die alone.
In our world poisoned by exploitation,
Those who have taken, now they must give!
And end the vanity of nations,
We've but one Earth on which to live.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.


That's still too damned bloody militant for my taste.
I much prefer:

There's a place for us,
Somewhere a place for us.
Peace and quiet and open air
Wait for us
Somewhere.

There's a time for us,
Some day a time for us,
Time together with time spare,
Time to learn, time to care,
Some day!

Somewhere.
We'll find a new way of living,
We'll find a way of forgiving
Somewhere . . .

There's a place for us,
A time and place for us.
Hold my hand and we're halfway there.
Hold my hand and I'll take you there
Somehow,
Some day,
Somewhere!



Last edited by Sand on 29 Jan 2009, 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,067
Location: Victoria, Australia

29 Jan 2009, 11:38 pm

You are f*****g brilliant for a delusional religionist, the English version is by Billy Bragg, my favourite is the Irish/Gaelic version by Alistair Hewlett

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=PtAfIjRKUak[/youtube]


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


Last edited by DentArthurDent on 29 Jan 2009, 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,067
Location: Victoria, Australia

29 Jan 2009, 11:41 pm

@ Sand ok you have a point, it is pretty militant, but there is no stirring inspiration to defend ones nation state, plus whilst it is militant I think it is a song of hope


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 81
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

31 Jan 2009, 4:04 am

Orwell wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
For a National Anthem for the U.S. I would favor -America, the Beautiful-. It is a benign hymn celebrating the beauty and fruitfulness of the land. A peaceful anthem. Unfortunately Francis Scott Keyes got dibsey's because the War of 1812 was a significant event that made the U.S.A. tough enough to survive.

I'd prefer America the Beautiful as well, even if it is a cheap knock-off of Britain's crappy anthem. I'd been under the impression that the War of 1812 was pretty lame overall.

AG, you like referring to cracked, don't you?


It was a big deal in the U.S. Andrew Jackson kicked British Ass at the Battle of New Orleans. Yes, yes. I know the war was (legally) over by then, but the people fighting it did not know. After the war of 1812 Americans got the sense that they could stand up against any nation.

ruveyn