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bunny-in-the-moon
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15 Feb 2009, 10:06 pm

Just wanted opinions on a theory I've been stumbling across within the margins of Hasidic Judaism.

I can't quote directly, because no single organisation of any kind has officially espoused this theory, but it seems an extremely small minority of scattered individuals believe those with Asperger's Syndrome/Autism could fall within a description of spiritually "elevated" people, who, due to not being "in sync" with their physical selves, are capable of viewing reality in a different way to others.

It's not been stated that this is beneficial in the sense that prophecy could be the result of this particular "condition" per se, simply that there could be a spiritual aspect to having Asperger's??

I'd just like to make it perfectly clear that 1. I am NOT claiming I agree with this "theory" in any way, shape or form - I would simply like the opinions of others - so if anyone feels like discrediting it in any way, please don't aim such views at me personally.. and 2. This is in no way intended to be suggested within the same vein as the occasional "are aspes the next step in evolution blah blah blah.." thread we get on here (my own personal view on that particular "theory" is that it's nonsense).

I am also aware that a great many of you have expressed ardently atheist views; I don't particularly wish to invite debate as to whether God exists or not - or any derivative thereof. If you happen to hold views that could be described as religious and/or spiritual, please share your views on this theory. If you don't, please respect the beliefs of others without turning this into a theological debate.

Thankyou :) .



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15 Feb 2009, 10:21 pm

Jews have traditionally viewed people with what we today would call neurological or mental disorders as prophets and seers. The Bible is full of obviously addled people who became regarded as moral guardians or soothsayers. Oddly, the Germanic and Celtic cultures tend towards the other extreme, viewing such people as possessed by demonic spirits and in need of extreme exorcisms. Since America is descended from the latter, we get people who try and beat the autism out of their children. Orthodox Jews in Israel, meanwhile, venerate HFA's, and give them special privileges and hang on their every word, from what I've heard. I'm convinced that some of this is rooted in genes.



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15 Feb 2009, 10:22 pm

Sounds somewhat similar to the "indigo children" crap. Given that Aspies tend, at least stereotypically, to be less spiritual/religious than neurotypicals, I highly doubt that this theory has much merit.


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bunny-in-the-moon
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15 Feb 2009, 10:30 pm

pezar wrote:
I'm convinced that some of this is rooted in genes.


Please could you elaborate?


Orwell wrote:
Given that Aspies tend, at least stereotypically, to be less spiritual/religious than neurotypicals, I highly doubt that this theory has much merit.


Exactly, "stereotypically". I do happen to agree with your sentiment regarding "indigo children crap", however.



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15 Feb 2009, 10:43 pm

I think I fall into this category. It's not crap Orwell. 2% of the human population are able to shift consciousness and enter into altered states where the spirits reside.


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15 Feb 2009, 10:49 pm

bunny-in-the-moon wrote:
Exactly, "stereotypically".

There is at least some truth behind every stereotype. An NT friend of mine and I once had a discussion in which he brought up the question of whether autistics could be deeply religious, since the stereotypes he had heard indicated that autistics could not be religious. The reasoning was that since autistics tend not to be as emotional as NTs, and emotion is a vital component of almost all religious traditions, it would seem within reason that autistics are not generally as religious. Also, the widely-held belief is that autistics are less capable of abstract thought (at least Kanner's autistics supposedly are) and religion of its nature is somewhat abstract.


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15 Feb 2009, 11:01 pm

Magnus wrote:
I think I fall into this category. It's not crap Orwell. 2% of the human population are able to shift consciousness and enter into altered states where the spirits reside.


And the other 98% can archive this easily with Ketamine, LSD, mushrooms, MDA, etc. - I do not see here any "spiritual" in the sense that any supra-natural happens.



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15 Feb 2009, 11:46 pm

Everything is natural, but not everything is understood. Spirituality is inspired by the mysteries of life. Wanting to know more than we are capable of knowing is linked to having a strong imagination. The imagination is like the portal the goes deep into the subconscious or superconscious. There is a fine line between visionary genius and insanity. One can't live in both the material world and spiritual world entirely, if he/she is aware of both.


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16 Feb 2009, 12:27 am

Magnus wrote:
I think I fall into this category. It's not crap Orwell. 2% of the human population are able to shift consciousness and enter into altered states where the spirits reside.


Or 2% of humanity suffer from delusions and hallucinations. To quote pezar 'The Bible is full of obviously addled people who became regarded as moral guardians or soothsayers'


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16 Feb 2009, 12:33 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Magnus wrote:
I think I fall into this category. It's not crap Orwell. 2% of the human population are able to shift consciousness and enter into altered states where the spirits reside.


Or 2% of humanity suffer from delusions and hallucinations. To quote pezar 'The Bible is full of obviously addled people who became regarded as moral guardians or soothsayers'


Don't forget to mention Catholic Saints. In this group you find some of the finest examples of this sort. One of my favourite is St. Catherine of Siena. She saw Jesus' Foreskin on her ring finger as a wedding ring.



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16 Feb 2009, 12:50 am

Dussel wrote:
Don't forget to mention Catholic Saints. In this group you find some of the finest examples of this sort. One of my favourite is St. Catherine of Siena. She saw Jesus' Foreskin on her ring finger as a wedding ring.


See this is why I like WP; taking your lead I googled and discovered the hitherto unknown [to me] world of the HOLY FORESKIN and found this wonderful article:

The Holy Foreskin
"The Bible tells us that Jesus was circumcised eight days after his birth. But this became the source of a protracted debate among medieval scholars who couldn't figure out what became of the foreskin. Did it remain here on Earth? Was it reunited with Christ and ascended with him into Heaven? Or did it ascend into heaven separately, on its own?

The belief that the "holy prepuce" remained on Earth was probably the most popular position. In fact, no less than 21 medieval churches and abbeys claimed to be in possession of the holy foreskin.

St. Catherine of Siena reportedly wore the foreskin of Jesus as a ring on her finger.

However, the Austrian nun Agnes Blannbekin (1244-1315) took a different view. She became obsessed by the holy foreskin, dwelling on the loss of blood and pain Christ must have suffered during his circumcision. Such thoughts led her to a revelation. While celebrating the Feast of the Circumcision (traditionally held on January 1), Agnes suddenly "felt the Lord's foreskin on her tongue, thin as the membrane of an egg, and swallowed it with great sweetness 'about a hundred times'. Christ then revealed to her that his foreskin had been resurrected with him on Easter." Because of this revelation, Blannbekin's writings were banned by the church.

However, my favorite theory about the fate of the holy foreskin is the one put forward by the 17th century theologian Leo Allatius. In an essay, De Praeputio Domini Nostri Jesu Christi Diatriba, he speculated "that the holy foreskin may have ascended into heaven at the same time as Jesus himself, and might have become the rings of Saturn."


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16 Feb 2009, 1:07 am

Magnus wrote:
I think I fall into this category. It's not crap Orwell. 2% of the human population are able to shift consciousness and enter into altered states where the spirits reside.

No, it really is crap. It smacks of New Age BS.

If I could tell the difference between proponents of these types of ideas and hippie potheads, I might be inclined to take the former a bit more seriously.


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16 Feb 2009, 1:25 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Dussel wrote:
Don't forget to mention Catholic Saints. In this group you find some of the finest examples of this sort. One of my favourite is St. Catherine of Siena. She saw Jesus' Foreskin on her ring finger as a wedding ring.


See this is why I like WP; taking your lead I googled and discovered the hitherto unknown [to me] world of the HOLY FORESKIN and found this wonderful article:


Even I am an atheist, I would not like to miss my Catholic upbringing. I learned of a world so entertaining that afterwards I see the boring hours in kindergarten and primary school listing the Latin Mass a price worth to pay.



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16 Feb 2009, 1:54 am

One common trait I see with Atheists is that they have no respect for people with different views regarding the Creator and spirituality. I can easily name criminals who are atheists and say,
"See, this lunatic was an Atheist! Therefore, all Atheists are callous lunatics!"

I don't do that because that would be illogical, disrespectful, and intolerantly Dumb.


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16 Feb 2009, 2:12 am

Magnus wrote:
One common trait I see with Atheists is that they have no respect for people with different views regarding the Creator and spirituality. I can easily name criminals who are atheists and say,
"See, this lunatic was an Atheist! Therefore, all Atheists are callous lunatics!"

I don't do that because that would be illogical, disrespectful, and intolerantly Dumb.


If someone runs around and tells that "Elvis is alive" than he is certainly the object for all kinds of ridicule. If some runs around and tells "Jesus is alive" he shall not be the object for ridicule? Why? Because this particular kind of madness has a longer tradition? Is shared with more people?



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16 Feb 2009, 2:17 am

Orwell wrote:

If I could tell the difference between proponents of these types of ideas and hippie potheads, I might be inclined to take the former a bit more seriously.


The difference is quite obvious, the pot heads have a physiological reason for being out of touch with reality :wink:


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