Is there any historic proof that Jesus existed?

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If Jesus Christ was human like the rest of us then he must have had "Impure Thoughts" he either had wet dreams or masturbated.

Not my thoughts, something Charles Darwin noted.

... Why wouldn't he?

Exactly...

That is correct. It should also be remembered that it was at Nicaea where "Trinitarian" Christianity became recognized by the Roman state as the official religion, leaving Arianism, Nestorianism, and other forms of Christianity out in the cold.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

This is going to take some time to please you, but I will eventually slog through all this.

First things first:

They never talked about the books of the Bible at the First Council of Niacea. See here. I don't think you want the Wikipedia article on the Council given how you are framing your posts. It took a while and a long time to make the Bible...well, at least one Bible, there is that problem of which one is actually correct given all the different denominations.

This is your turn to prove me wrong. As well as Kraichgauer and AngelRho if they want.

Explain to me what evidence you need for the anti-Semitism claim. You don't think the whole Jewish mob wanting Jesus' head is good enough?

Last edited by iBlockhead on 04 Sep 2012, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The only evidence we have for the existence of Godzilla is the fact that the legends speak of a city called 'Tokyo' in a far-off land called 'Japan' or 'Nippon'. Since the location can be found today and in the real world, does this mean that Godzilla is or was real?

By the same token, does the fact that places mentioned in the Bible correspond with real-world locations today prove beyond any doubt the Jesus the Christ (as depicted in the Bible) actually existed?

Fiction writers often set their stories in real-world locations. This does not make their characters real.

To be honest, I generally don't like quoting websites at all, but you did the effort to summarize what you had to say, and the information was easily available. I can't say I'm more knowledgeable on this, so I will give you the point.

Nevertheless, the core point of my argument on this was that each of the books of the Bible should be treated as a separate document. The exact way by which the canon was decided does not adress this.



Christians don't necessarly like new Christian sects, yet the latter are not anti-Christian. At that point, the followers of Jesus were just another sect. I don't see how it was anti-semitic, since most early followers were Jewish.


That's a bad way to frame the question. The "as depicted in the Bible" is necessarily untrue, because many events in the Gospels are entirely impossible.

The important question is: Why was it written? It was not written as a piece of fiction (like Godzilla). It was not the definite transcription of a mythical tradition (like the Illiad or the Old Testament). It was the (biased, transformed, inaccurate, etc.) relation of events seen or heard by the people who wrote it. It is not perfect, but it's all we've got.

You are actually correct. I took AngelRho as to mean by the time of the council of Nicaea, the books of the New Testament had already been compiled, rather than meaning it had been compiled at the council.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

There is no mention of his coming in any history book.

The only mention of the event is in books of fiction like the bible.

Could it be that the whole thing is a huge fake?

Could millions of very gullible people be wrong?


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Doh!! ! I was confusing Nicaea with the Council of Trent.

The fact remains that the Trent Canon was more of a formality, though. The canon itself dates as early as the 300s with the commissioning of the Vulgate, and the gospels/epistles were in circulation by the end of the first century. The LXX was already in use by the time Jesus came along. The main reason for the Trent canon was a response to the Protestant Reformation. Acceptance of the Bible pretty much as we have it now was essentially a done deal by the time of Augustine.

The LXX was commissioned by Jews in Alexandria Egypt. The LXX was written for Jews who give up Hebrew and spoke and read only Greek. The LXX was a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures and had nothing to do with the Gospels.

ruveyn