Is there any historic proof that Jesus existed?

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Jesus was mouthy and upset the Romans. THere is nothing magical about that. Rome killed lots of non-magical people for breaking their laws. And rain is wet. Getting killed by Rome was probably easier than not getting killed by Rome.

@ Autinger: That has to do with how the character of Jesus was treated and exploited. All the precedents and typical themes which modified or influenced christology are not proof of the non-existence of Jesus.

It seems like Jesus is just a manifestation of the sun god.

That, and the fact that he had run afoul of the temple authorities, who took displeasure to the fact that Jesus had cleansed the temple of money changers - who gave a percentage of their profits to the temple - and who was critical of said temple authorities' ethical failings.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Wait what?

The whole point is that "back in the days" there were hundreds if not thousands of religions with "holy people" that all worked themselves into eachother's stories. Stop treating "your" story as the one that is right. Believe is something beautiful but ignorance isn't.

Sure the supreme overlord, who knows everything and wants us to live in his ways goes about this by apparently selecting a few humans to speak in his voice? Not to forget how these humans have been changing these supposed "commandments" since day one.

NOT TO FORGET that no two religious people from the same religion share the same ideas about "their set in stone by a supreme overlord" religion.
There'd by NO need for a hierarchy with priests and cardinals voting for who has the best ideas on how to spend the money and "reach more souls" if it was controlled by a supreme being with "the vision".

I'm going to stop posting in this thread because people believing in 2000+ year old stories, totally ignoring -everything- humans have documented since then (and not to forget the LACK of documentation about these so called supreme super powers since the time they were supposedly present), piss me off more than anything and I'm no doubt breaking Code of Conduct rules. (Which when talking about "nonsense" is REALLLY hypocritical but whatever.) Peace.

(Sigh) I know from personal experience as an Aspie that very often, we feel it's my way of the highway. But the fact remains, there are as many opinions on WP as there are members, and so it's more than a little unfair that you expect all the rest of us to fall in line behind you in lock-step agreement. My suggestion is, do what I do - state your opinion, and regard those in disagreement with you with smug condescension.
If not... Well, all I can tell you is not to let the proverbial door hit you on the ass on your way out.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

@ Autinger: What you said has no relation with what I said, whatsoever.

I'm not religious at all. I'm not even baptised. The Bible is not "my" story. I treat is as a document, that's all.

Read my previous posts before making unjustified statements. I never said that Jesus was right or that he did all that he says he has done, only that he existed. Of course, beyond the man, Jesus is also a construct within Christianity. In the same way, George Washington is a construct within American national conscience -- yet no one denies that George Washington existed.

A document in the sense is literature. There is very little factual content in the Bible. Most of it is made up nonsense.

ruveyn

The Old Testament is pure mythology. The New Testament should not be dismissed lightly. It was written relatively close to the fact, and we have no better source on what it describes -- the birth of a then insignificant Jewish sect. Most of it is still made up nonsense, but that only means we should be careful with it. There is some truth to beneath all the inventions.

But it isn't real. It's a copy of various myths starting with the Egyptian god Horus.

The fact that it was inspired by other myths does not mean there is nothing in it.

We have millions of artefacts from the Egyptian times 2000bc.
You would have thought someone as holy as Jesus would have left at least one of his flip flops to someone, he was supposed to have lived 2000 years after the Egyptians, he left nothing, not a bread crumb.

If you go to see Shakespeare's house at Stafford-on-the-Avon, you will see the place filled with furniture of that time period, but actually not of it belonging to the Bard himself. While there is a right wing literary movement trying to prove that Shakespeare was not really Shakespeare, but the Earl of Oxford, few actually believe such nonsense. If Shakespeare could have gotten away leaving little or nothing behind and yet obviously had existed, I see no reason why the same thinking couldn't apply to Christ.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

He became important after his death -- way after it. That is also why we have few texts about him.

Also, there is something 10 metre's worth of fragments from the True Cross, dozens of nails, very many thorns from the crown, and a decent number of lances, all attributed to Jesus's life. Obviously, most (or all) of them are fake or reinvented as such, but technically, what you said is untrue.

Finally, you will notice that there is a difference between finding objects from one civilization and from one person -- especially when that person is not a monarch.

The Hebrew scriptures were written in pre-scientific times and many of the sources are from the late bronze age and early iron age. The kind of stories you see in the Hebrew Scriptures are just the kind of stories Bronze Age Dudes would tell around the camp fire.

Here is one from Genesis. How did Jacob get sheep to come out spotted and striped? He whittled wooden sticks to produce striped and spotted wood which he showed to female sheep while they were rutting. It is a good story and has nothing to do with sheep genetics.

ruveyn