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| Are you pro-choice? |
| Yes |
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74% |
[ 154 ] |
| No |
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25% |
[ 53 ] |
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| Total Votes : 207 |
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Haliphron
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Age: 27
Posts: 1298
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 Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Wholesome wrote: | I realize that everyone does not have my view of God but they should!  Seriously, I feel that God can use bad for good and turn any situation around, including an unwanted pregnancy. Also, these bad things would not happen if the Ten Commandments (Thou shall not commit adultery!) were followed but God does give us free will because He loves us. We cannot control the bad things that happen in our lives but we can control our reaction to them. |
Well perhaps God made quite a mistake giving us our own *free will*(  Dubious that we really have much at all)
In any case, I think God should be the one to correct his mistakes and stop trying to put the burden on us to do it  .
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Jan74 wrote: | Pro choice 100%, although personally I wouldn't have an abortion unless there was a defect - I feel strongly about that as my mom was forced to carry my baby brother to term since abortion was illegal although the ultrasounds showed he didn't have a brain. It changed her. But I think that is each woman's choice to make, not the government.
On the other hand, figuring out birth control isn't hard. I try not to judge when I read that someone had 4 or 5 or "too many to count" abortions (Sherri Sheperd said that), but I do make a judgment on their intelligence. I can't imagine that the 97-99% accuracy of birth control would result in the same people using it correctly and getting pregnant multiple times. |
I definitely don't agree with it being used as birth control, nor being taken lightly or done without a lot of thought and consideration, but as someone who's been there due to very, very careful use of birth control failing without any sign of it doing so I'll say that no matter how careful you are and how much you look after yourself, sometimes these things do happen! And yes, I know what you mean about things 'changing you'... the experience changed me completely and I had that choice, as gut-wrenching as it was. I really feel for your Mum.
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We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
New Blog: http://onelittleaspergian.blogspot.com/ |
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Chibi_Neko
Want a Cookie
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 1412
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Wholesome wrote: | | I realize that everyone does not have my view of God but they should! Seriously, I feel that God can use bad for good and turn any situation around, including an unwanted pregnancy. Also, these bad things would not happen if the Ten Commandments (Thou shall not commit adultery!) were followed but God does give us free will because He loves us. We cannot control the bad things that happen in our lives but we can control our reaction to them. |
I don't know why people 'should' have your view of god, christanity is just one of the many religions in this world, and there are athiests.
Trying to bring religion into the abortion debate is pointless for that very reason.
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Humans are intelligent, but that doesn't make them smart. |
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Kirska
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2008
Age: 22
Posts: 726
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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I am pro-life for a number of reasons.
1. As a former fetus, I object. I enjoy living, and I like to speak for those that can't yet.
2. As a former "accident", I object. See above. Accidents happen for a reason.
3. There are too many couples that can't conceive that are trying to adopt. You can have your pregnancy completely paid for, so financial reasons aren't a valid excuse.
4. It's murder. I don't buy the "not a human til it's born" thing. A human life is a human life.
5. I would hate to have a child. I am small, I don't want to be pregnant. Right now, I NEVER want kids. However, if I got pregnant, I would not kill it. I might put it up for adoption, I might keep it, I am not sure. But I do know I would not kill it.
The problem with the "woman's body" thing, is it's not just her body. The government does have the right to protect its people from murder.
I do think there should be an exception for medical cases. If a woman would cause out of the ordinary extreme harm to her body by having a baby, she should be allowed to have an abortion. I also think rape victims should be allowed, as that's simply not their fault. I don't agree with it, necessarily, but I don't know what I would do in that situation, so I don't feel like it's my place to judge there.
However, the chance of a baby is the chance you take when you decide to drop the pants. Like it or not. You decide to take that chance when you let him to his thing to you.
Edit: I do think I should note that, from a religious standpoint, I believe that women (and others directly involved) will be forced to pay for abortion at the final judgment, so to speak. I don't think God differentiates between different kinds of murder. I know not everyone believes that, but it's what I believe. That doesn't affect my pro-choice vs pro-life decision, though, only my own personal decision of whether or not I would abort if I were pregnant.
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"Shadow, my sweet shadow
to you I look no more" |
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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How is it the government's body? I strongly, strongly object to the government interfering with my body at all. The embryo is in my body, it belongs to me, it is mine. Just like they try and push vaccines on you and fluoride in the water. MY body, not theirs.
Also, yes, I was once an embryo. Can I remember it? No. Can anyone remember it? No. Why? Because there isn't even a brain yet!!
*rolls eyes*
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We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
New Blog: http://onelittleaspergian.blogspot.com/ |
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1Oryx2
Deinonychus
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 316
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Personally, and I've never been pregnant before so I realise my opinion is inexperienced, but I think that unless the baby is going to kill/severely harm the mother or will not survive itself you should not allow an abortion.
I realise that rape victims may not want to keep their child and I understand that they should have the right to terminate said pregnancy because of the circumstances in which the child was conceived. Not to mention the psychological health of the mother. Still, I cannot help but think that the unborn baby is being killed for something he/she had no part in -the kid is just an innocent bystander in all this and yet they're the ones who die.
My mom was a midwife, so maybe my opinion is skewed.
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quirky
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| I understand abortion in cases of rape, teen pregnancy, maternal drug abuse, health threat to the mother, or in the case the baby has a fatal and painful disease that will cause it to die in childhood. Other than that, I tend to be pro-life. Yes, it's my body, but it's my child's life, and I don't think I could live with myself after having an abortion. My biggest problem with pro-choicers is their assumption that any 'unwanted' child will have a horrible struggle of a life in which nothing is accomplished and suffering is had by all. If that were true, i'd be pro-choice, but many babies are given up for adoption and end up with great homes. Even ones who do have rough childhoods can end up having wonderful and productive lives. Some of the most successful and generous people around were people who probably 'should' have been aborted - just look at Oprah Winfrey. I personally know many kids from rough backgrounds who have had their struggles but are doing very well - a lot better than some spoiled 'wanted' kids. That's not to say that some of these kids don't have awful lives, but so do some 'wanted' kids. I dont think pro-choicers are murderers, but I think assuming that someone is going to have a bad life based on their parents is very wrong. The same way I feel that people who say they'd never have a kid on the autism spectrum, or with a cleft palate, or with dwarfism are wrong. Just because someone is born disadvantaged or just different doesn't mean their life is a loss or they will be unhappy. |
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LKL
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 22, 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 1177
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that us PCs say that any child who has come from an unwanted pregnancy will have a miserable life; what we say is that only the mother is in a position to examine all of the circumstances of her own pregnancy and decide if the total happiness (her own, that of the potential child, and the rest of the world all being of equal importance) will be greater with or without the child that would result from that pregnancy.
At the stage at which most abortions occur, a child does not exist yet. The mother, and only the mother - not you, not the state, not some old man with a gavel - should have the right to decide whether to bring that child into existence. |
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| LKL wrote: | I don't think that us PCs say that any child who has come from an unwanted pregnancy will have a miserable life; what we say is that only the mother is in a position to examine all of the circumstances of her own pregnancy and decide if the total happiness (her own, that of the potential child, and the rest of the world all being of equal importance) will be greater with or without the child that would result from that pregnancy.
At the stage at which most abortions occur, a child does not exist yet. The mother, and only the mother - not you, not the state, not some old man with a gavel - should have the right to decide whether to bring that child into existence. |
Exactly.
And it's a very, very difficult, heartbreaking decision - don't make it worse for people when they're so hormonal by trying to guilt them into thinking their growing blob that doesn't yet have even the beginnings of a brain, heart or lungs has more rights than they do.
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We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
New Blog: http://onelittleaspergian.blogspot.com/ |
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legendoftheselkie
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Posts: 188
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: Abortion |
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| The difference between the pro-choice and anti-choice factions in government is this: You have the right to get pregnant, keep your children or give them up for adoption, and nobody who considers themselves pro-choice would think of denying you those choices. But if it were up to the most rigid ''pro-lifers'', that twelve-year-old girl would have been forced to have her father's baby the same as the ''oops, forgot my birth control'' case. If you believe a fetus has the same rights as a living child, that goes for a baby that would suffer a short, excruciatingly painful life, or whose birth would likely kill its mother. We can hope and pray and work for the day when abortions would be limited to such instances, but if we allow the anti-choice forces to legislate our right to choose out of existence, the choice will no longer be there when it is medically warranted. |
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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I think a lot of pro-'lifers' get very militant and don't really think things through to be honest, they just assume everyone who thinks women should have that choice say they should have it endlessly. I'm pro-choice, yes, but having been there myself I know that it's never an easy decision (something 'pro lifers' tend to assert over and over), and that no matter how many precautions you take and how well you use them sometimes things just don't work (3 forms of contraception in my case!). Also, I don't think they should be allowed past a certain point unless lives are in danger - 14 or 16 weeks would be ideal; enough time to realise you're pregnant and to make your decision. It's such a traumatic, horrible, painful time, you don't need people with no grasp of reality to be whinging about your scenario when they've never met you and don't know the circumstances and will forget about the child the moment it's born anyway.
Seriously, they'd be far better off going and adopting some kids in Africa or Asia or something...
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We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
New Blog: http://onelittleaspergian.blogspot.com/ |
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lionesss
The Queen of not your typical kind of jungle
Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Age: 33
Posts: 1398
Location: not anywhere near you
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| D1nk0 wrote: |
What about the case where the fetus has a lethal genetic disease like Tay-Sachs? Or worse yet, what if it has anencephaly? Which BTW is a truly HORRIFIC birth defect where the baby's brain fails to develop and there's a gaping hole on the top of the head. I consider not aborting an anencephalic fetus to be inhuman since it will die shortly after birth and NEVER actually experience this world since no brain=no conscious thoughts or emotions. |
In those cases, I am in complete agreement. Unfortunately incidents like anencephaly and trisomy 18 or 13 can just occur randomly (but very rarely) but when it comes to these other diseases like Tay-Sachs, Sandhoff or any of those horrible fatal genetic diseases, parents can be screened for those. If both parents find out that they for instance carry the gene that is responsible for Tay-Sachs, they have options to either do IVF through preimplantation genetic diagnosis (which is very costly and even risky), even use donor sperm/egg or take that 1 and 4 chance. A child that has a horrific disease like that will barely make it up to age 5 and probably live in agony. However, in my opinion.. whatever someone else does with their body is their business. I feel I have no place to judge whether I agree with their decision or not. I personally however, would never abort for having a baby at the wrong time. My son was a surprise and I was definitely NOT prepared to have him.. but he is here! And at the time I didn't think I would ever get pregnant naturally because I dealt with infertility treatments when I was trying to conceive my daughter! Boy was I wrong. But since my son was born and I knew for a fact that I would NOT have any more kids, I ended up having a tubal ligation and I don't regret it. AND I also avoid sex during the time that I feel I am ovulating just as a percaution. I had the tubal in 2005 and so far its worked  Besides I am loaded with fibroids... not sure how easy it would be for me to get pregnant anyway now.
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I was told that I have PDD-NOS and ADHD- in other words, mild AS with a history of speech delay. I personally think its best to say that I am just plain under the spectrum! |
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Chibi_Neko
Want a Cookie
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 1412
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| 1Oryx2 wrote: | Still, I cannot help but think that the unborn baby is being killed for something he/she had no part in -the kid is just an innocent bystander in all this and yet they're the ones who die.
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It is true that the fetus hasn't done anything wrong, it did not ask to be created, but what makes abortion such a hot topic would be is the fetus and 'actual' person? At what point does it become one? Can it feel? ect.
When people try to use religion as a way to force someone into a position they don't want to be in, it is the same way as forcing a belief on someone who may be a athiest, which is why religion has no say in this issue.
I have not been pregnant either, so if it where to happen I cannot say what I would do. I don't want kids, but I could give it up to adoption, but if I was raped I really cannot see myself willing to carry a constant reminder of a traumatic event for 9 months and go through needless pain. I don't see anything wrong with a person taking control over what happens to their body.
This is why choice is so important, there is no way that everyone on the planet can feel the same about kids or pregnancy in general. People who are against abortion, have your babies, but do not force your position on anyone else, their situation is most likely different. Pro-choice people don't tell anyone to have a abortion, they just think that a child should be wanted.
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Humans are intelligent, but that doesn't make them smart. |
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ADoyle
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 17, 2005
Age: 33
Posts: 691
Location: Southern California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Jainaday wrote: | I feel that abortion should happen as seldom as possible and as often as necessary.
I wish, instead of going on about whether abortion should be legal, that we would focus on the more humanitarian measures that would cause it to happen less; improving birth control options, adoption options, and support for parenting. |
I'm pro-choice, but I do think it would be nice if abortions became a rare thing because of more available effective birth control, as well as support for parents.
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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason,
and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei |
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LKL
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 22, 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 1177
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