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gabemai314
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02 Dec 2018, 5:56 pm

A while back I was debating a geocentrist on Twitter named Matty Lawrence. He has a website at https://www.mattysparadigm.org. After establishing that the distance to the Sun can be found, he told me the sun's mass cannot be measured or established. He also said that he believed that the Sun is hollow. :lol: :lol: :lol: I tried to explain to him that the magnetic field lines of the Sun would be different if it was hollow. He replied that inductive reasoning is invalid and only deductive reasoning is valid. :roll: How do I convince him that heliocentrism is the best model to explain our Solar System? The debate thread starts with this post: https://twitter.com/GabeMaiberger/status/1056901382421151749. At the time of this post Matty's account is temporarily banned from Twitter so you can only see my responses.


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02 Dec 2018, 7:56 pm

Have you ever heard this bit of advice: "Never wrestle with a pig; you'll only end up covered with muck, and the pig will like it."?

The same applies to arguing with schizos, psychos, and people who believe in geocentrism.



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02 Dec 2018, 9:12 pm

sounds like a huge waste of time.



gabemai314
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03 Dec 2018, 9:27 pm

Sometimes I do it just to laugh at their ad hoc explanations. I have become addicted to debating flat earthers and geocentrists for entertainment purposes.


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04 Dec 2018, 12:53 pm

Yeah. Nothing wrong with debating him. Sometimes they turn (though they rarely admit it). Like the WP person who was a Holocaust denier, who suddenly disappeared and then reappeared on WP years later (by that time he denied ever having BEEN a Holocaust denier, but someone dug up his old posts). This same guy when he returned, though no longer a Holocaust Denier, he was a Flat Earther. Or seem to be...until after a whole bunch of running debates with several folks, suddenly said "I don't REALLY believe the earth is flat, its just something I was curious about".

I am sure that you can find Neil DeGrasse Tyson somewhere on U Tube owning some Geocentrists, the way I have seen him dispose of YECs, and Flat Earthers.

Or just recap your history of how Galileo and Copernicus came to dispose of geocentrism.

IF the heliocentric notion were wrong and we were to go back to geocentrism you have to have a lot "epicycles" (wheels within wheets) in each of the planet's orbits to explain their motion. Sun centered is much simpler . That's an argument.



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04 Dec 2018, 8:48 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_yet_it_moves

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"And yet it moves" or "Albeit it does move" (Italian: E pur si muove or Eppur si muove [epˈpur si ˈmwɔːve]) is a phrase attributed to the Italian mathematician, physicist and philosopher Galileo Galilei (1564–1642) in 1633 after being forced to recant his claims that the Earth moves around the immovable[1] Sun rather than the converse during the Galileo affair.[2]

In this context, the implication of the phrase is: despite his recantation, the Church's proclamations to the contrary, or any other conviction or doctrine of men, the Earth does, in fact, move (around the Sun, and not vice versa). As such, the phrase is used today as a sort of pithy retort implying that "it doesn't matter what you believe; these are the facts."



gabemai314
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05 Dec 2018, 10:55 pm

Thanks for the advice everyone. He has dismissed any piece of evidence that I present to him.


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06 Dec 2018, 9:51 am

gabemai314 wrote:
Thanks for the advice everyone. He has dismissed any piece of evidence that I present to him.
Then he is not so much interested in sharing his beliefs as he is in enjoying the attention you give him while trying to change his beliefs. He is a person who insists on holding an untenable position just to provoke responses in others. Examples...

"The World is Flat."
"Vaccines cause Autism."
"The Moon Landing was a Hoax."
"Women only want to date Jerks."


... all attention-grabbing statements that make no sense in the Real World.



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11 Dec 2018, 4:40 pm

Tell him that when the Parker Solar Probe goes into the sun, it's going to crack the outside of the sun and destroy not only the solar system, but the entire universe. Tell him we are all doomed and so he might as well sit back and enjoy the view.



Last edited by kokopelli on 11 Dec 2018, 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Dec 2018, 5:42 pm

Fnord wrote:
Have you ever heard this bit of advice: "Never wrestle with a pig; you'll only end up covered with muck, and the pig will like it."?

The same applies to arguing with schizos, psychos, and people who believe in geocentrism.


Better yet, Fnord, how about, “Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig!


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Fnord
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11 Dec 2018, 8:47 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Have you ever heard this bit of advice: "Never wrestle with a pig; you'll only end up covered with muck, and the pig will like it."? The same applies to arguing with schizos, psychos, and people who believe in geocentrism.
Better yet, Fnord, how about, “Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig!
Both are equally valid.



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11 Dec 2018, 9:56 pm

Fnord wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Have you ever heard this bit of advice: "Never wrestle with a pig; you'll only end up covered with muck, and the pig will like it."? The same applies to arguing with schizos, psychos, and people who believe in geocentrism.
Better yet, Fnord, how about, “Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig!
Both are equally valid.


Agreed, but Hunter S. Thompson’s quote, “Never teach a pig to sing...” has a certain zing to it. :twisted:


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13 Dec 2018, 4:47 am

Whether you debate him, or not, you could sill do just one thing.

You could get him to explain that one little thing to you.

Ask him WHY ...the powers that be have been conspiring for the last four centuries to conceal the true set up of the solar system from us all (NASA is obviously in on this vast conspiracy). What would anyone gain by doing that?



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28 Dec 2018, 3:01 pm

Quote:
How to deal with a geocentrist

don't



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28 Dec 2018, 4:39 pm

People as stupid as this (I'm saying this as someone with pathetically low science knowledge compared to most on here esp on this sub forum) are either so stupid there's something wrong or are doing it for something other than logical, scientific reasons, even faulty ones.
However, they are funny and harmless. I don't mind people who have beliefs like 'the moon landing was a hoax' or 'the earth is flat'. They're incredibly dense but so long as they're not educating children and as long as they themselves are adults, I don't see any reason to force them out of their wilful ignorance.
People who believe in things like 'vaccines cause autism' or 'the holocaust was a hoax' are another matter as those things tend to come from a place of hate/fear and rile up hatred against/fear about minorities.
I have an ex/friend who believed in every conspiracy going. I found him fun when he was in his moon landing denial phase. I dumped/ditched him when it became holocaust denial and his politics shifted far to the right...
Thing about one phony belief is, people are likely to believe in multiple conspiracy theories if they believe in them at all.
Or it could just be a troll.
I'm an artist and I use a lot of unscientific, New Age nonsense in my(fictional/poetry) writing and art, despite being a sceptic. Because it's fun. Sometimes I even pretend to believe it.
I had a great uncle who believed in fairies. My dad's mum believed blood transfusions were against God. My dad is a Creationist. I know better than to debate these people and expect change.
You can debate them but they're even less likely than the average person to change their mind. If you're not careful, they'll assume you're in the Illuminati...