What's the differences between NT Brains and non-NT Brains

Page 2 of 2 [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,146

06 Jul 2021, 5:55 pm

All depends which neuroscience lab you ask

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/autis ... structure/

Compared with controls, people with autism have a slightly thinner temporal cortex, a large region associated with processing sounds and speech. They also have a thick frontal cortex, which governs complex social and cognitive processes. Internal structures such as the nucleus accumbens (a reward region) and the amygdala (an emotion hub) are smaller, on average, in autism brains than in control brains.



gwynfryn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 501
Location: France

07 Jul 2021, 9:42 am

Looks to me like a cart before the horse situation; how confident are you that those who don’t have more glial cells, have been properly diagnosed? All these diagnoses are a bit iffy, with no two research centers seeming to agree on how it’s done!

What would happen, do you think, if these scans were carried out on people labeled autistic by a more specific test like the Chandler & Macleod Aptitude and Temperament psychometric test, a very precise instrument?

Oh, I forgot; no one in autism research will even consider the possibility of using this marvelous tool, nor have any of them shown any interest in scanning my brain; they’d rather keep on groping in the dark…



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,146

07 Jul 2021, 6:59 pm

gwynfryn wrote:
All these diagnoses are a bit iffy, with no two research centers seeming to agree on how it’s done!


That's my point.



carlos55
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,779

28 Jul 2021, 3:26 pm

There have been studies stating differences in mini column size, autistic brains tend to have mini columns more bunched up with poorer insulation between.

This makes sense from an electrical circuit wiring perspective. A signal for one mini column ends up in another. Not sure why no consensus has been reached yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0u7ynQ5kgk


_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."

- George Bernie Shaw


aspiecoder
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 5 Mar 2021
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 26
Location: Adelaide, Australia

09 Aug 2021, 7:04 am

naturalplastic wrote:
They havent really detected any actual physical differences in the brains of autistics with those of NTs the last time I read about the subject.


I've heard this as well. However then I've also heard that autistic brains have a lot more cross-talk between the left and right hemisphere, and also that there are more neurons. Something to do with the natural neuron-pruning mechanism not being as strong during development, resulting in more neurons surviving. This might explain some of the sensory sensitivity, but I'm no expert so I'm just guessing.

I think as always more research is needed to gain more insights.



Fenn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,403
Location: Pennsylvania

09 Aug 2021, 8:38 am

I did a quick search on fmri and autism

Here are just two of the things that came up:

https://medschool.ucsd.edu/som/neurosci ... /fmri.aspx

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18633852/

Here is one that used meta-analysis.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32200468/

MRI is a very expensive way to study the body - study sizes for MRI and fMRI are usually small.
Sometimes it may seem that studies do not agree - a meta-analysis is a statistical mathematical way to try to combine many studies and look for statistical patterns that show where there is agreement, or where the number of studies that do agree are significant.

Studying the brain is not easy. Doing a statistical meta-analysis study of many brains tells you about the group, not about the individual.
I might guess that if I have the same DSM diagnosis as the people in the study that my brain will match the group averages, but there is no way to tell for sure without putting my head in a MRI machine (and I would need some good scientists to interpret the results).


_________________
ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


Fenn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,403
Location: Pennsylvania

03 Sep 2021, 12:23 pm

Excess Synapses Found in Brains of People with Autism


_________________
ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


QuantumChemist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,910
Location: Midwest

06 Sep 2021, 9:49 am

gwynfryn wrote:
There’s an amazing amount of disinformation in this thread!

One well known difference is that autistic brains have more glial cells, aka “white matter”. It was once thought to have a nutritional function, but then it was discovered that it had an important cognitive function, normally attributed to the better known “grey matter”.

A bit of history for you; when Einstein was autopsied, researchers were allowed a slice of his brain for analysis, and the only significant departure from the norm was this denser white matter. The rest of his brain was buried with his body.

I’ve since come across three claims of having discovered his brain, in a forgotten pickle jar or some such. Said brain was then either frozen and ground down, layer by layer, each being scanned, or cut up into cubes for examination. All three claimed his brain was smaller than average (unlikely given the size of his head) and differently wired, but none made any reference to more glial cells! The authors also denied he was autistic, though the copious biographical info on him makes this conclusion inescapable…


Albert Einstein’s brain was extensively studied by researchers over the world after his death in 1955. Parts of it was sliced up and sent to scientists who had clout. Some pieces were initially decent size, but became smaller as they were recut for others. Many slices of his brain are now missing, as some researchers were less than careful with them and/or became secretive about what they had possession of. I have heard it is roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of his brain mass that is gone. Some samples were lost in lab accidents or simply thrown away years after being studied. Others were sold to eerie collectors who will never give them up. There has been a scientific push to collect and safeguard the remaining pieces for future generations to study. I do know that an organization did scans of the remaining collected pieces and have made a 3-D model of what is left. It will help inventory what is actually missing and from which part of the brain.



Fenn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,403
Location: Pennsylvania

06 Sep 2021, 12:00 pm

Please look at the MRI scans in this video:


I found this very instructive.


_________________
ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


Fenn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,403
Location: Pennsylvania

19 Sep 2021, 3:31 pm

Carlos55 posted this on another thread:


_________________
ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


JustFoundHere
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,140
Location: California

19 Sep 2021, 4:02 pm

Consider becoming acquainted with someone experienced with encouraging healthy AS/NT friendships - who are also receptive to discussing...........the differences between NT Brains and non-NT Brains!

Personal experiences from both AS and NT perspectives would contribute awesome feedback to this discussion thread!!



Axeman
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Aug 2021
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,435
Location: USA

19 Sep 2021, 4:37 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
They havent really detected any actual physical differences in the brains of autistics with those of NTs the last time I read about the subject.


https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/brain ... explained/