A trillion years from now evidence for an expanding

Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 

Sonic200
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 12 Jul 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 126

24 Dec 2021, 12:24 pm

A trillion years from now all evidence for an expanding universe will be gone. Cosmologists from intelligent species if they exist then will believe in a static universe.

This is what I have read.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,753
Location: temperate zone

25 Dec 2021, 10:30 am



This is the phenom that youre talking about. As the Universe expands stars go out of view.



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,780
Location: UK

02 Jan 2022, 3:38 am

Pandemic! Declare a lockdown! We can't have such a thing happening in a trillion years time! We must save the people who are going to be alive in a trillion years!

(Joke)

:lol:


_________________
Female
Aged 32
On antidepressants
Diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety and mild ASD


Sonic200
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 12 Jul 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 126

16 Jan 2022, 6:24 pm

A small minority of scientists today believe the universe to be static, rather than expanding. It is considered nonstandard cosmology. Eric Lerner is one of them.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 54,809
Location: Stendec

16 Jan 2022, 6:47 pm

Sonic200 wrote:
A small minority of scientists today believe the universe to be static, rather than expanding.  It is considered nonstandard cosmology.  Eric Lerner is one of them.
And this is a significant claim because . . . ?



QuantumChemist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,687
Location: Midwest

17 Jan 2022, 10:47 am

A trillion years from now, I will still be physically long dead and gone from this existence. Why should I care at that point in time?



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,753
Location: temperate zone

17 Jan 2022, 11:47 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
A trillion years from now, I will still be physically long dead and gone from this existence. Why should I care at that point in time?


Duuuhhhhh...

Our whole species, even if it exceeds expectation and cheats extinction longer than do most species, will not last THAT long. A trillion is hundreds of times longer than the five billion years that the solar system is expected to last before the Sun bakes the whole thing by turning into a red giant. Thats how big a "trillion" is.

But thats not the "point".

There isnt an actual point, but the lesson (as I see it) is that if WE KNOW that the Universe will hide evidence about itself in the future then ..that implies that the universe has already hidden information from us. Stuff that we will never know. Which is a bummer. Neil DeGrasse Tyson agrees.



Sonic200
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 12 Jul 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 126

23 Jan 2022, 12:20 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
A trillion years from now, I will still be physically long dead and gone from this existence. Why should I care at that point in time?


Duuuhhhhh...

Our whole species, even if it exceeds expectation and cheats extinction longer than do most species, will not last THAT long. A trillion is hundreds of times longer than the five billion years that the solar system is expected to last before the Sun bakes the whole thing by turning into a red giant. Thats how big a "trillion" is.

But thats not the "point".

There isnt an actual point, but the lesson (as I see it) is that if WE KNOW that the Universe will hide evidence about itself in the future then ..that implies that the universe has already hidden information from us. Stuff that we will never know. Which is a bummer. Neil DeGrasse Tyson agrees.


A trillion years from now the Sun will have long left the main sequence, however the nearest star Proxima Centauri will still be in the main sequence. Red dwarf stars have lifespans of trillions of years.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,159
Location: Adelaide, Australia

23 Jan 2022, 11:32 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
A trillion years from now, I will still be physically long dead and gone from this existence. Why should I care at that point in time?

Maybe you'll do be dead but I've been walking 10,000 steps per day and lowering my cholesterol intake. If I'm still around I'll tell the scientists that the universe is expancing but the evidence is now outside of our light cone.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


Sonic200
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 12 Jul 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 126

24 Jan 2022, 9:12 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
A trillion years from now, I will still be physically long dead and gone from this existence. Why should I care at that point in time?

Maybe you'll do be dead but I've been walking 10,000 steps per day and lowering my cholesterol intake. If I'm still around I'll tell the scientists that the universe is expancing but the evidence is now outside of our light cone.


If you still have memories from the time before all the evidence of the expanding universe was lost. Otherwise you'll effectively be a different person just occupying a used body.



neilinmich
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 49
Location: Michigan USA

24 Jan 2022, 11:56 am

What if the universe isn't expanding? What if spacetime isn't the same everywhere?

Disclosure: I'm not a scientist, astronomer, or anything like that. I just like to think about this stuff all the time. You know, a special interest.

I've been playing around with a theory that dark energy is an optical illusion when we look where there is less mass (gravity) than we have here on earth. We see the universe expansion accelerating because the star light that comes to us from far away galaxies passes through great voids where there is very little mass. Spacetime is different in the great voids.
Mass skews spacetime by making inches smaller and seconds bigger in a inverse square of the distance from the center of the mass. In a sense it converts space into time. There is a conservation of spacetime, if you increase time you have to decrease distance by the same amount.

Einstein said gravity and acceleration were the same thing. As you fall closer to a mass it takes you less time to go through more space even though a force isn't acting on you. Someone in a different reference frame would see you accelerating toward the mass, but your reference frame doesn't "feel" any acceleration. It is the ratio of space vs time in spacetime that is changing as you approach the mass, not your momentum.

We are in a gravity well of dark matter here in the Milky Way. We will be going down farther and farther into that gravity well forever. It's a one-way trip. The light from the other side of the universe would be created in a different gravity well and then travel through many large voids with little mass (gravity) before reaching us. Those voids would have a different ratio of space vs time than we experience here. Smaller seconds and bigger inches in the void would make it appear to us that the photon is taking more seconds to go through fewer inches. It would slow down the photon and make it look like it had traveled farther than it actually did. Hence we see cosmic expansion from our point of view. The farther that photon has travelled the more great voids it passed through and hence we see cosmic acceleration.

I don't know if the astrophysicists who discovered cosmic acceleration in 1999 adjusted their data to reflect space vs time ratios inside and outside gravity wells. They might already suspect it.

The shiny object that I can't take my eyes off of is the fact that gravity is accelerating mass without a force and the cosmos is accelerating space without a force. I can't think of anything else in the universe that accelerates this way. They have to be related somehow.

The influence of gravity gets stronger as distance decreases whereas the influence of dark energy gets stronger as the distance increases. They're opposite. Compared to the other forces (electromagnetic, strong, weak), the affect of gravity on mass is as tiny as dark energy. They're both messing around with the ratio of space vs time in spacetime.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,159
Location: Adelaide, Australia

24 Jan 2022, 10:31 pm

Sonic200 wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
A trillion years from now, I will still be physically long dead and gone from this existence. Why should I care at that point in time?

Maybe you'll do be dead but I've been walking 10,000 steps per day and lowering my cholesterol intake. If I'm still around I'll tell the scientists that the universe is expancing but the evidence is now outside of our light cone.

If you still have memories from the time before all the evidence of the expanding universe was lost. Otherwise you'll effectively be a different person just occupying a used body.

I'll just look it up in my diary. Or I could set a reminder in Alexa to remind me to tell scientists about the expanding universe at a particular time and date.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,753
Location: temperate zone

26 Jan 2022, 6:55 pm

A trillion years from now?

By then the filibuster will be half over!