Distinguishing Science and Pseudoscience
Yes really, many former pseudo-scientific things were found to be scientific. The problem is with the concept "pseudo science" it is too broad and too vague a concept to make an argument with because no one is capable of defining in an absolute manner what is and what is not pseudo science because history is littered with dead theories that were once respectable but would today be considered pseudo-scientific.
What are these things which began as pseudo science and ended up as science. Can you list some.
The trail of dead theories is evidence of the success of the scientific method. Errors are discovered and corrected. Dross and deadwood are discarded. For example we have gotten rid of the light carrying aether in physics. There is no aether.l
ruvbeyn
What are these things which began as pseudo science and ended up as science. Can you list some.
The trail of dead theories is evidence of the success of the scientific method. Errors are discovered and corrected. Dross and deadwood are discarded. For example we have gotten rid of the light carrying aether in physics. There is no aether.l
ruvbeyn
http://ask.metafilter.com/167792/What-w ... ed-Science
Karl popper on how do we know when something is/isn't science?
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/pop ... ation.html
Obligatory xkcd:
Science isn't about being right or wrong, it's about holding what you believe up to examination. In it's day, looking for an aether and alchemy could both be considered to be science - the idea of an aether fitted into the existing model of light at the time, and Alchemy existed in a time before the the birth of modern chemistry, where the only frame of reference on the subject was occult practices.
Yes. You are right. Science is admitting that we are wrong and can never truly know everything. Every model that we create is inherently flawed, as the universe is not limited to what the human mind can understand. Everything that has ever been published in a scientific journal is imperfect. Over time, the models that we use to explain the universe are either improved or cast out as we discover new things.
Hey, don't throw us all in the same basket. If you must, at least confine yourself to 7-day creationists.
Are you kidding?
Where have you been?
"Creationists", 'intelligent design"advocates, "Young Earthers", (each generation gives itsself a new label) may be movitvated by religous belief, but they have created an entire industry devoted to precisely what you're saying they dont do- putting a cloak of science on their beliefs. There is a universe of books, and websites, even museums, devoted to "proveing" that the planet is only a few thousand years old.
They would say they ARE being sceintific, others would say theyre pretending to be scientifc, but either way you're wrong to claim that they "dont claim to be scientific"!
Dr. David Brin has observed that the single most important thing for a scientist to learn to say, something that few pseudoscientists seem to be able to say, is, "I might be wrong..."
Dr. Isaac Asimov famously said that the most exciting phrase in science isn't "Eureka!" ("I have found it!"), but rather, "Gee, that's odd..."
When a scientist finds something unusual during his research, something he did not expect to find, he doesn't reject it - the unexpected is the exciting part! When he finds out that the prevailing belief about something is wrong, his next goal is to find the definitive proof that it's wrong - and to be willing to accept the idea that he might be the one that's wrong, and the belief might actually still be right. Remember, after all, that the way a scientist gets ahead in his/her field is by proving that someone who came before was wrong about something, and making it stick. Nobody ever got tenure at a university at an early age by agreeing with existing texts...
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MattTheTubaGuy
Blue Jay
Joined: 6 Jun 2010
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 96
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
I would say that science (A scientific theory) describes the world around us, is able to be repeatedly tested, and can be proven wrong. one could probably say with confidence that all current scientific theories are wrong, and that better theories will be made eventually, but science is not black and white, not all theories are as wrong as each other. everyone knows that the earth is not flat, but it is approximately flat if you are looking at a small part, which is why maps work. Newtonian gravity does not explain everything, but for most purposes it is good enough. you only really need General Relativity if you are doing stuff like a GPS system, or dealing with something close to a big mass.
in everyday life, nobody really uses quantum mechanics, because newton's laws and classical electromagnetism is good enough, but when you are dealing with very small things like micro circuitry, then you need to use QM.
a good indication of the quality of a theory is the uncertainties, which largely depends on how good the measuring equipment is. If the measurements are within their uncertainties of the theory, then the current theory can't be improved yet. But when measuring equipment is good enough, they might start disagreeing with the current best theory, which means a better theory is needed.
A scientific theory fits the evidence, not the other way around.
That is why creationism/intelligent design is not science, because the creationists start with the conclusion that a god created the universe, and that everything in it should look created. they then proceed to find all the 'evidence' they can and discard everything else.
I have found it largely revolves around claims that evolution is somehow wrong, so all animals must have been designed.
now I am not a biologist, but I am pretty sure that if there was anything wrong with any of the theories of evolution, then we would have heard about it in mainstream science, not from some religious organisation like Answers in Genesis.
More in my field of physics, they claim that carbon dating and other radio dating methods are unreliable. this is not true at all. radioactive decay is extremely reliable, and the only way to speed up the decay are under VERY extreme conditions, even more extreme than what is found in the sun (I think) to make a significant difference, which would be impossible on earth.
I read somewhere that measurements of the age of the earth using something like 20 different methods agree with each other within a couple of hundred million years, which is about 5% of 4.5 Gyr.
Using the cosmic background radiation, the age of the universe has been measured to be 13.75 ± 0.17 billion years, which is quite old, but also quite accurate, to about 1.2%!
don't even get me started with homeopathy!
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"Never memorize what you can look up in books" Albert Einstein
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." Walt Disney
Using the cosmic background radiation, the age of the universe has been measured to be 13.75 ± 0.17 billion years, which is quite old, but also quite accurate, to about 1.2%!
!
That is the estimate for the diameter of our light horizon in spacetime. We do not know an upper found on the speed at which spacetime itself expands. A according to Alan Guth, for the first fraction of a second spacetime expanded at many times the speed of light and apparently spacetime is expanding now at an accelerating rate.
ruveyn
What are these things which began as pseudo science and ended up as science. Can you list some.
The trail of dead theories is evidence of the success of the scientific method. Errors are discovered and corrected. Dross and deadwood are discarded. For example we have gotten rid of the light carrying aether in physics. There is no aether.l
ruvbeyn
http://ask.metafilter.com/167792/What-w ... ed-Science
Karl popper on how do we know when something is/isn't science?
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/pop ... ation.html
I don't really see anything here showing that "pseudoscience" was accepted later as science. Being later proven correct doesn't mean they were doing before was deemed to be pseudoscience.
In terms of what is just religious texts and what is pseudoscience - it becomes pseudoscience when they make attempts to refute credible science with their own "science."
It's usually the Christian conservatives we associate with creationism, but I think this article about Orthodox Jewish views on evolution is quite insightful. A literal interpretation of the religion and saying that's what one believes isn't pseudoscience, but arming your congregants with your own version of the science and having your own specific "scientists" to read would be pseudoscience.
http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/fea ... ution.html
A great example of pseudoscience is the movie What the Bleep Do We Know?, which (absurdly) argues that quantum mechanics has anything to do with consciousness.
http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005 ... leep_.html
http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005 ... leep_.html
There are quantum processes taking place in the brain. Consciousness is your brain at work.
ruveyn
Should have been more clear on that - I was talking about the concept of "quantum consciousness" that is somehow external to the brain. New Agers have jumped on the idea of quantum mechanics somehow legitimating their supernatural beliefs. That's what What the Bleep was about.
Here's a piece written almost two decades ago by Victor Stenger:
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vste ... usness.pdf
MrDiamondMind
Deinonychus
Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 371
Location: Encapsulated within a skull; covered in sheets of skin
Draco nodded at this as though, finally, he'd heard something he could understand. "And that cost?"
"Learning to admit you're wrong."
Another reader of EY's brilliant fanfic. Awesome. I'm currently on chapter 17: Locating The Hypothesis. I consider it the first Diamond Hard Rationality Fiction.
The above quote is a true rationality gem.
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