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shrox
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03 Apr 2012, 7:44 pm

Would anyone happen to know the frequency and type of laser one could use to do this? I'm looking to heat the nitrogen gas in ambient pressure to 400F in less than a few milliseconds, almost instantly if possible. It's part of my career as a mad scientist developing non-lethal action toolbelt stuff for superheros.



CornerPuzzlePieces
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03 Apr 2012, 11:38 pm

Wait>> Superhero toolbelt!>!?

Haha, awsome! :D

Although the amount of energy you need would require a huge laser and power supply- are you trying to make like a gas propelled hook or something?

Look what they do with airbags- a small explosive forms lots of gas because of combustion, which inflates a bag. You might use the same thing but with a harpoon sealing into a tube.

Or maybe slightly less dangerous, the co2 packs used for whipped cream and paintball guns. Small, inexpensive, and not likely to harm anyone.


But.. for all practical purposes the explosive would make a very usable grappling hook. :D



ruveyn
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04 Apr 2012, 10:39 am

shrox wrote:
Would anyone happen to know the frequency and type of laser one could use to do this? I'm looking to heat the nitrogen gas in ambient pressure to 400F in less than a few milliseconds, almost instantly if possible. It's part of my career as a mad scientist developing non-lethal action toolbelt stuff for superheros.


How can a narrow laser beam impart heat to a diffuse gas occupying a large volume?

ruveyn



ImMe
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04 Apr 2012, 11:16 am

Nitrogen is highly reactive. Perhaps you could add it with another element/compound and use the laser to cause a directed explosion. Maybe more realistically you could take two highly reactive compounds, separate them, and use a switch to combine them, causing an explosion.

I imagine this would get expensive, however.



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04 Apr 2012, 11:51 am

ImMe wrote:
Nitrogen is highly reactive.


No it isn't. Most compounds containing nitrogen are only too happy to decompose, sometimes rather rapidly as with many of the explosives containing it, back into molecular N2. The air we breathe is approximately 80% nitrogen. It likes to remain that way and requires a lot of energy to make it combine with other elements.


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shrox
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04 Apr 2012, 1:48 pm

TallyMan wrote:
ImMe wrote:
Nitrogen is highly reactive.


No it isn't. Most compounds containing nitrogen are only too happy to decompose, sometimes rather rapidly as with many of the explosives containing it, back into molecular N2. The air we breathe is approximately 80% nitrogen. It likes to remain that way and requires a lot of energy to make it combine with other elements.


Nitrogen is very stable, it's a noble gas and not very reactive.

It's just air I need to heat as it passes though an intake, I was hoping the nitrogen could be a catalyst to transfer that heat into an injected liquid mist. I hoped I could use nitrogen since there is more of it per volume than oxygen or argon.

A laser can be made into any conic shape, from a narrow band to trippy flowers at a Pink Floyd laser show. (you PS and X-Boxers are probably too young to remember those...)

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04 Apr 2012, 2:11 pm

shrox wrote:

Nitrogen is very stable, it's a noble gas and not very reactive.



Nitrogen is NOT like helium and argon. It forms compounds. For example laughing gas, NO2.

ruveyn



shrox
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04 Apr 2012, 2:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:
shrox wrote:

Nitrogen is very stable, it's a noble gas and not very reactive.



Nitrogen is NOT like helium and argon. It forms compounds. For example laughing gas, NO2.

ruveyn


I just want to know if anyone can answer my initial query? I'm looking to heat the nitrogen gas in ambient pressure to 400F in less than a few milliseconds, almost instantly if possible.



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04 Apr 2012, 2:41 pm

i wouldnt be using lasers but induced microwave heating similar to that in the ITER and JET fusion experiments,

on a small scale it would be much cheaper and you even have the possibility of building the probe into the nozzle itself, perhaps even mount it pointing out the nozzle so all the heating happens at the base of the nozzle focal point.

that said you would be swithcing the hazards of high power lasers out with the hazards microwave radiation.

i think the correct frequency would be produced by a nitrogen based laser but as ruveyn said nitrogen is reactive and another gas may be preferable.


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ruveyn
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04 Apr 2012, 2:47 pm

shrox wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
shrox wrote:

Nitrogen is very stable, it's a noble gas and not very reactive.



Nitrogen is NOT like helium and argon. It forms compounds. For example laughing gas, NO2.

ruveyn


I just want to know if anyone can answer my initial query? I'm looking to heat the nitrogen gas in ambient pressure to 400F in less than a few milliseconds, almost instantly if possible.


Compress it rapidly or immerse the gas container in something very hot.

ruveyn



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04 Apr 2012, 2:55 pm

I guess you would need a light frequency in which nitrogen is less transparent that for the visble spectrum of light. Does that exist? Everyday life show nitrogen as being neraly invisible, a laser would just goe through without heating it.



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04 Apr 2012, 3:37 pm

Tollorin wrote:
I guess you would need a light frequency in which nitrogen is less transparent that for the visble spectrum of light. Does that exist? Everyday life show nitrogen as being neraly invisible, a laser would just goe through without heating it.


all gasses have absorbtion spectrums so i guess one could find out.


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04 Apr 2012, 4:26 pm

Oodain wrote:
all gasses have absorbtion spectrums so i guess one could find out.


The absorption spectrum may not be within the range of visible light, I'm somewhat rusty on where to find that information nowadays but I'm sure there are charts somewhere on the internet with the absorption spectra of most elements and compounds. As to whether a laser exists that can provide the best frequency is a different matter.


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shrox
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04 Apr 2012, 4:50 pm

How can I heat air then drawn in though an inlet to 400F then? It has to be just outside air for this application, any altitude. It must be lightweight and heat the air nearly instantaneous, that is why I thought of a laser (or maser - "Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation", a phaser would be cool too...) . A fresh volume of air about the size of a cylinder 2' across by 3.5 to 4' long every 100/th of a second is what needs to be heated.

Many lasers are not visible, infrared for instance.



Oodain
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04 Apr 2012, 5:51 pm

shrox wrote:
How can I heat air then drawn in though an inlet to 400F then? It has to be just outside air for this application, any altitude. It must be lightweight and heat the air nearly instantaneous, that is why I thought of a laser (or maser - "Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation", a phaser would be cool too...) . A fresh volume of air about the size of a cylinder 2' across by 3.5 to 4' long every 100/th of a second is what needs to be heated.

Many lasers are not visible, infrared for instance.


in that case microwave heating is the way to go,

much less wheight per watt in that range, have you done any calculations for how many watts of effective heating is needed?

the power to run the device however will be of a much higher concern if wheight is an issue.


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