Is our Universe inside a Black Hole? (Exact EFE Solution)

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justMax
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20 Apr 2010, 6:39 pm

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Such a scenario in which the universe is born from inside a wormhole (also called an Einstein-Rosen Bridge) is suggested in a paper from Indiana University theoretical physicist Nikodem Poplawski in Physics Letters B. The final version of the paper was available online March 29 and will be published in the journal edition April 12.

Poplawski takes advantage of the Euclidean-based coordinate system called isotropic coordinates to describe the gravitational field of a black hole and to model the radial geodesic motion of a massive particle into a black hole.

In studying the radial motion through the event horizon (a black hole's boundary) of two different types of black holes -- Schwarzschild and Einstein-Rosen, both of which are mathematically legitimate solutions of general relativity -- Poplawski admits that only experiment or observation can reveal the motion of a particle falling into an actual black hole. But he also notes that since observers can only see the outside of the black hole, the interior cannot be observed unless an observer enters or resides within.

"This condition would be satisfied if our universe were the interior of a black hole existing in a bigger universe," he said. "Because Einstein's general theory of relativity does not choose a time orientation, if a black hole can form from the gravitational collapse of matter through an event horizon in the future then the reverse process is also possible. Such a process would describe an exploding white hole: matter emerging from an event horizon in the past, like the expanding universe."


Interesting find, exact EFE solutions are nothing to scoff at.



Exclavius
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05 May 2010, 2:34 pm

I can see what the author is saying in this. it makes perfect sense too, though i suspect that each "level of universe" would lose one spacial dimension from that in which this black/white hole resides.

The 4d sphere which is our universe (3 space 1 time dimension) lies in a 5d universe perhaps a point particle.... Such as a black/white hole. that 5th dimension we call curvature for lack of any better understanding.

So within the universe that would be created therein, we have a 4d space instead of a 5d space, though we can "perceive" the 5th dimension via indirect measures.

Once inside a black hole in our universe we would then view it as a white hole from inside (i think... need to consider the theory behind that) and what we would then have is a loss of the time dimension, as time stops within the black hole... One of the spacial dimensions would then be "transformed" into a time dimension, leaving a flat 2d universe inside.

I doubt matter can form in a 2d dimension space (3d space time), just as i do not believe it could form in the outer 4d space (5d space time) however energy would still exist in both, and it could possible aggregate in other ways which would be those universe's versions of matter... Though it would likely be incomprehensible to us.

What kind of mechanism would make a space dimension "convert" into a time dimension?
As the black hole (well, more specifically it's event horizon) expanded from more matter being added into it, that would be a direct parallel to our own universe expanding over time... and in reality the expansion of the universe IS time... If it were to shrink, causation would reverse.
So... why isn't time herky-jerky then, as there is no reason why matter and/or energy would flow into the black hole at an even rate? Well keep in mind that "even rate" would be over a time dimension that would not exist to us anymore, because it's the eliminated dimension. We would only see the universe getting bigger, and a second in time corresponds to each megaparsec growing by what we define as 71 km. (granted those rates are relative to a) our universe and b) possibly our location in our universe... or moreover how long since the space we occupy entered the black hole.)



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05 May 2010, 5:29 pm

I don't know, but it's an interesting idea.


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zer0netgain
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05 May 2010, 6:47 pm

I don't know what to think about this.

Do these guys just make stuff up for the heck of it?

First, black holes were literally "holes" when a star collapsed so far it punched a hole into space-time itself.

Now, we see evidence that black holes emit streams of energy...impossible if their pull is so intense that NOTHING can escape.

Add into the above the idea that black holes aren't "holes" but super dense stars that pull in most everything but at the same time do kick out energy. Given insufficient mass, a black hole basically "evaporates." High possibility that regular black holes eventually evaporate...just very slowly.

Or are there many "classes" of events being called "black holes."



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05 May 2010, 7:56 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Now, we see evidence that black holes emit streams of energy...impossible if their pull is so intense that NOTHING can escape.


They are not emitting energy, but rather, the event horizon grabs one half of a pair of quarks that were to join and cancel out. Its like a big razor blade, with one half falling in, and the other half just barely escaping. The escaping ones form xrays, which is what we see emitted.. not from the black hole, but from the area around it.

As far as I recall anyway. I prolly have the details off.


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Tollorin
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05 May 2010, 8:40 pm

justMax wrote:
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Such a scenario in which the universe is born from inside a wormhole (also called an Einstein-Rosen Bridge) is suggested in a paper from Indiana University theoretical physicist Nikodem Poplawski in Physics Letters B. The final version of the paper was available online March 29 and will be published in the journal edition April 12.

Poplawski takes advantage of the Euclidean-based coordinate system called isotropic coordinates to describe the gravitational field of a black hole and to model the radial geodesic motion of a massive particle into a black hole.

In studying the radial motion through the event horizon (a black hole's boundary) of two different types of black holes -- Schwarzschild and Einstein-Rosen, both of which are mathematically legitimate solutions of general relativity -- Poplawski admits that only experiment or observation can reveal the motion of a particle falling into an actual black hole. But he also notes that since observers can only see the outside of the black hole, the interior cannot be observed unless an observer enters or resides within.

"This condition would be satisfied if our universe were the interior of a black hole existing in a bigger universe," he said. "Because Einstein's general theory of relativity does not choose a time orientation, if a black hole can form from the gravitational collapse of matter through an event horizon in the future then the reverse process is also possible. Such a process would describe an exploding white hole: matter emerging from an event horizon in the past, like the expanding universe."


Interesting find, exact EFE solutions are nothing to scoff at.


Does that mean that we can know how things work inside a black hole by observing the begining of the Universe?


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justMax
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05 May 2010, 11:52 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Now, we see evidence that black holes emit streams of energy...impossible if their pull is so intense that NOTHING can escape.


They are not emitting energy, but rather, the event horizon grabs one half of a pair of quarks that were to join and cancel out. Its like a big razor blade, with one half falling in, and the other half just barely escaping. The escaping ones form xrays, which is what we see emitted.. not from the black hole, but from the area around it.

As far as I recall anyway. I prolly have the details off.


Positron/Electron and Quark/Anti-quark pairs, is what Hawking thinks.


I personally expect dark energy and black hole radiation are related intimately.

As for "do they just think stuff up", no, this is a solution of the field equations, which to date have been shown valid at their appropriate scales.

It would be very odd to find a situation that we can say for sure exists, such as a black hole, but can't relate to an exact EFE.



Kenjuudo
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07 May 2010, 5:47 am

Fuzzy wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Now, we see evidence that black holes emit streams of energy...impossible if their pull is so intense that NOTHING can escape.


They are not emitting energy, but rather, the event horizon grabs one half of a pair of quarks that were to join and cancel out. Its like a big razor blade, with one half falling in, and the other half just barely escaping. The escaping ones form xrays, which is what we see emitted.. not from the black hole, but from the area around it.

As far as I recall anyway. I prolly have the details off.
No, that's pretty much what Stephen Hawking has proposed. The two pairs each have a common spin too, just reverse as compared to each other. No matter how far apart these pairs are, they will always reflect the other one's spin (only reversed). That means black holes might not be completely black; If you could grab a hold of one of the bits escaping and measure it's spin, you'd effectively be able to "read" what's happening inside the black hole.


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19 Jul 2015, 2:06 pm

Kenjuudo wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Now, we see evidence that black holes emit streams of energy...impossible if their pull is so intense that NOTHING can escape.


They are not emitting energy, but rather, the event horizon grabs one half of a pair of quarks that were to join and cancel out. Its like a big razor blade, with one half falling in, and the other half just barely escaping. The escaping ones form xrays, which is what we see emitted.. not from the black hole, but from the area around it.

As far as I recall anyway. I prolly have the details off.
No, that's pretty much what Stephen Hawking has proposed. The two pairs each have a common spin too, just reverse as compared to each other. No matter how far apart these pairs are, they will always reflect the other one's spin (only reversed). That means black holes might not be completely black; If you could grab a hold of one of the bits escaping and measure it's spin, you'd effectively be able to "read" what's happening inside the black hole.


Wow! So essentially quantum entanglement being used to measure the inner workings of a black hole. That is pretty fascinating. Unfortunately, I don't see how we could get a hold of those particles, unless there is a place close by Earth they happen to be floating by. I assume our sun's magnetic field shields out a good deal of that radiation, and the entangled quarks that are constantly bombarding our solar system. :?


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