The Most Annoying Ways in Which Prehistory is Misrepresented

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DarthMetaKnight
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15 May 2018, 6:35 pm

"The dinosaurs were killed by the Ice Age."

No they were not. They were killed by the giant impact.

Also, there have been several ice ages throughout the history of the earth. Which one are you referring to?


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RetroGamer87
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16 May 2018, 8:16 pm

AstroPi wrote:
Quote:
Our teeth are still perfectly capable of eating meat, just not killing the prey. Using a tool to do that instead is objectively-speaking more efficient.
Have you seen any predator with teeth like that?
Have you seen any other predator with tools?

AstroPi wrote:
To eat bone marrow you don't need strong teeth. And problem is, how do you get that bone marrow?
Using tools.

Tools can also be used to crack open an animals skull so you can eat the the brain. The reason early humans were such excellent scavengers is because they could get at food that other animals couldn't. After other animals had picked the carcass clean, only humans could eat the brain.

AstroPi wrote:
For picking grains the opposite thumbs are needed. The best survival strategy was to place grinding stones somewhere safe, and move crops to them. For that we needed to free our hands, and move only on two feet.
I thought you said evolution doesn't have a vision/purpose. Do you think they started walking on their hind legs because they wanted their distant descendants to grind grain?

The truth is we already had the ability to walk on two legs before we became human. Other apes can do it. We can do it better because we relied on it more. On the savannah standing up straight means you can see further. You can spot predators from a greater distance.

Sure they could have walked around with two handfuls of grain but they could have just as easily walked around with tools. They probably did both.


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17 May 2018, 7:30 am

Humans evolved to be omnivores. Unlike other omnivorous species however, we are capable of choosing not to eat meat.



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17 May 2018, 2:15 pm

"The earliest land animals were walking fish like Tiktaalik."

Nope. Those walking fish were the first land vertebrates. Aquatic animals came onto land in several waves. When Tiktaalik crawled out of the water, the land was already populated by bugs.

Evidence suggests that the earth's land was populated by bugs as early as the Cambrian. Micro-animals (such as nematodes and tardigrades) may have lived on land during the Precambrian. This is hard to prove or disprove, given that micro-animals seldom leave fossils.


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18 May 2018, 8:22 am

AstroPi wrote:
Plants contain enough for us. If we were biologically designed to eat meat, we would NEED to eat it. We're not designed, even one wrong bacteria found in raw meat can kill us, you should expect more from over 2 million years of evolution?


If you're going to eat enough plants to get enough proteins to gain muscle, you'll get fat. Several omnivores (eg. bears) can survive without meat, but it's not healthy. Also, dental problems first started showing up when humans started eating grains.

I eat raw fish all the time. It never killed me.

Quote:
Our vision evolved when we were still monkeys living on trees, and it later became useful for precise picking objects. It presents major flaw when used for hunting: we must rely entirely on it, since we can't smell nor hear very well, so it creates a problem how to avoid predators and hunt at the same time.


Our vision developed when we were apes, but the vision of a tree-climbing monkey is different from that of an ape. Humans have excellent hearing in certain frequencies, and the lack of smell only shows that we're not scavengers.

Quote:

Evolution doesn't work like that. It doesn't have a vision/purpose: "let's grow them bigger brains, but for that we must make their jaw smaller". it's rather: "Their foods no longer contain enough proteins, so their jaw must became smaller, and it gives a room for growing bigger brains, is bigger brain better? Do we have enough energy to sustain it? Then do it!". If we ate more meat, our jaw would became larger, our muscles would grow, consuming the energy needed for bigger brain.


Pre-humans born with a smaller jaw had a bigger brain because there was room for one. A big jaw interfered with the brain development, and as such, individuals with larger brains survived and reproduced, while individuals with larger brains did not.

Muscle mass is purely a lifestyle thing. The strongest human that ever lived is by far stronger than the strongest neanderthal that ever lived.

Quote:
Have you seen any predator with teeth like that? Our teeth are perfectly capable of crushing the glass, does it mean we evolved as glass eaters?


False analogy.

Quote:
Long fangs are BETTER for eating meat, so there's no evolutionary reason for loosing them,


It's not better for eating frozen meat or bone marrow.

Quote:
I wrote it to show that taeniae coli is not a valid argument for meat-eating. Our jaw system cannot deal with breaking the bones, one needs long fangs for that. And bone marrow is unhealthy for us, you would expect that after 2.5 million years of evolution we would be more capable for that?


https://www.livestrong.com/article/4805 ... ne-marrow/

The massai frequently eat bone marrow.

Quote:
Domesticated, that's the culprit. But it won't kill them like us. We are very susceptible to meat bacteria. Why, if evolution had 2.5 million years to kill those of us who couldn't deal with them properly? Are you suggesting evolution doesn't work?


E. Coli infections are just as harmful to dogs as they are to us. You are misunderstanding evolution, and seem to think that bacteria does not evolve like everything else does.

Quote:
To eat bone marrow you don't need strong teeth. And problem is, how do you get that bone marrow? How do you know that nobody ate them? Proof? Other than lack of evidence?


I cannot prove a negative. There's evidence that farming arose due to food shortages, though, and that dental problems were nonexistant prior to then.

Quote:
Exactly, only if meat is tender, it means we can eat it by accident, like many other things, but we didn't evolve as meat-eaters. Eating raw fish is easy, catching it is not.


For catching fish, tools are far superior to sharp teeth.

Quote:
Who tells you to eat ungrounded grains? Birds have stones in their stomach to ground them.


We do not. Birds do not have teeth either, where grains would get stuck.

Quote:
We always had stones for that too, but not inside, only outside. Even primitive monkeys are capable of grounding things, it was definitely possible for us even 2.5 million years ago.


Grinding grain with stones would require a lot of energy and would still be damn near impossible to pick up and eat afterwards.

Quote:
example grain-eating birds can. Rabbits don't eat grains, cows are stupid because we've made them that way, stupid cows were easier to domesticate than smart ones. When you're a prey you need prediction/imagination abilities to know that you must be careful, to know when it's safe and where it's safe, you must have the notion of future to have bigger chances of avoiding the danger.


Or you can reproduce quickly, like a rabbit does. Intelligent prey animals are mostly found in the savannah, but only because predators there are intelligent as well.

Quote:
When you're predator you can rely entirely on your senses and don't need much intelligence, only to keep as low as possible while hunting.


An unintelligent tiger would be killed by large prey animals. A gaur would kill it easily, for example. A stoat would not stand a chance against a rabbit either without intelligence to back it up.

Quote:
Have you seen the lion outsmarting zebra? But it's crucial for prey to outsmart the predator, because constant running away requires too much food and energy.


Yes. Lions hunt together and have a pattern that the zebra will not be able to predict.

Quote:
But we're talking of about 2.5 million years ago. Are you suggesting our ancestors had guns back then? If not, tell me how to kill a prey by throwing stones at it, how to kill a predator who is attacking us? What is faster, finding enough stones or being killed by a lion?


Our ancestors had spears and were able to set traps. Certain prey animals could also be chased over cliffs and killed that way.

Quote:
So is it 50% stronger, or equal?


No stronger than a somewhat serious gym-goer.

Quote:
No? Can you die from eating few days old grains?


Yes. Certain bacterial and fungal grain infections are deadly. Even mold can kill you if you're unlucky.

Quote:
What harm? Fiber is crucial if you want to eat meat and not get sick afterwards, because of our too long intestines, it means we had to eat grains before we've started to eat meat, not the other way round. Fiber is neutral in itself. And those symptoms prove our mutual/symbiotic evolution.


Our intestines relative to bodylength are only 20% longer than those of a dog. Too much fiber leads to bloating and low testosterone levels, among others. It's one of the things people are actually reacting to when they think they have gluten intolerance.

Humans need small amounts of fiber, but so does a cat.

Quote:
Why do you ignore animal fat from meat? It's very unhealthy, it just blocks your veins?


It depends on the amount you eat and the type of fat. Wild animals often have far less bodyfat than captive animals. Furthermore, several animals are deliberately bred to have a lot of saturated fat on them. If it's not exaggerated, saturated fat is still a good source of energy.

Quote:
So surplus carbohydrates are also source of energy, because YOUR fat is basically stored energy needed when you face food shortages. That was always a norm, not huge protein intake, even few hundreds years ago meat eating was accidental.


There's hard, irrefutable evidence that Homo Sapiens Sapiens always ate meat.

Quote:
We were never stonger/bigger. Big muscles require a lot of energy, brain needs a lot of energy, and you can't combine both by eating proteins. And we now eat the biggest amounts of proteins in (pre)history. It's not healthy, you can consult your doctor if you don't believe me


Big muscles do not automatically require a lot of energy. I boosted my resting metabolism by a "whopping" 500 calories per day by gaining 20-ish kg of muscle.

People in several communities ate more proteins in the past. My grandfather would eat fish 6 times per week during and shortly after WWII, for example. My grandmother would eat a lot of rabbit meat. The meat back then was far more pure and less watered down by flour and other unhealthy components. Scandinavians in the stone age would eat 90% meat during the winter.


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21 May 2018, 11:42 pm

I thought of some more.

I hate it when Neanderthals are given a hunchbacked posture. In reality, when apelike prehistoric creatures were evolving into humans, one of the first humanlike traits to evolve was modern human posture. Case in Point: One of the earliest humanoids was Australopithecus. It already had humanlike legs and humanlike posture ... though it was apelike in every other way. Full bipedalism evolved very early on in the human evolutionary process. Humanlike facial structure and human intelligence evolved much later.

I hate how prehistoric humans in cartoons almost always have clubs. Real prehistoric humans used spears far more often. I guess clubs are easier to draw though...

I hate it when cartoons depict prehistoric humans inventing the wheel. In reality, the wheel was invented after the beginning of civilisation. Case in Point: The Olmecs never developed the wheel. What would a prehistoric human use wheel for? If you build a wheeled cart, who will pull it? If you have no motor and no beasts of burden, you might as well walk.

I hate it when people say "The dinosaurs went extinct because they were stupid." In reality, the K-T Extinction Event killed them. If a similar extinction event happened today, crops would fail all over the world and the extinction of the human species would be a possibility. When plants are dying all over the world, intelligence won't help you. If you need a lot of food to live, you will die.


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DarthMetaKnight
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24 May 2018, 6:29 pm

I hate it when dinosaurs are depicted with dragging tails.

Dinosaurs didn't do that.


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29 May 2018, 8:20 am

Overall, I'm really starting to hate the entire Jurassic Park film series. The title really screws up chronology. It gives people the impression that all dinosaurs lived during the Jurassic Period.

THE FACTS: The dinosaurs first evolved during the Triassic Period. They continued to exist throughout the Jurassic and the Cretaceous. The last non-avian dinosaurs died at the end of the Cretaceous.

Many of the prehistoric creatures that we see in the Jurassic Park films didn't even exist during the Jurassic. Here is a brief rundown.

Tyrannosaurus - Cretaceous
Velociraptor - Cretaceous
Triceratops - Cretaceous
Stegosaurus - Jurassic
Parasaurolophus - Cretaceous
Gallimimus - Cretaceous
Brachiosaurus - Jurassic
Dilophosaurus - Jurassic
Compsognathus - Jurassic
Pteranodon - Cretaceous
Pachycephalosaurus - Cretaceous
Spinosaurus - Cretaceous
Ankylosaurus - Cretaceous
Apatosaurus - Jurassic
Dimorphodon - Jurassic
Mosasaurus - Cretaceous
Corythosaurus - Cretaceous
Ceratosaurus - Jurassic
Mamenchisaurus - Jurassic
Baryonyx - Cretaceous
Carnotaurus - Cretaceous
Stygimoloch - Cretaceous
Allosaurus - Jurassic
Procompsognathus - Triassic
Camarasaurus - Jurassic
Maiasaura - Cretaceous
Dryosaurus - Jurassic
Cearadactylus - Cretaceous
Othnielia - Jurassic
Mussaurus - Triassic
Hadrosaurus - Cretaceous

I was going to go over the other animals on this page, but I got bored. You get the idea. Cretaceous Park would have been a more appropriate title.

Overall, I find that the entire Jurassic Park franchise gives the general public an anti-intellectual attitude towards dinosaurs. I'd rather see dinosaurs being animals in their natural habitat than see dinosaurs terrorizing humans. I don't like it when dinosaurs are turned into kaiju because dinosaurs only make perfect sense when they are placed within their natural habitat.

The 2013 Walking With Dinosaurs movie was almost a masterpiece ... but then they added human voices to the dinosaurs. :evil: :evil: :evil: I guess Hollywood executives are trying to keep people stupid.


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05 Jun 2018, 2:10 pm

This may seem like nit-picking, but I just have to point this out. I hate it when people call Helicoprion a shark.

FACT: Helicoprion was a member of the Holocephali clade. The only extant representatives of this clade are the Chimaeras, but the group was once far more spectacular and diverse.

Apart from Helicoprion, there were many others. Check them out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belantsea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iniopteryx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edestus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmorium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcatus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stethacanthus


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11 Jun 2018, 1:47 pm

I hate it when plesiosaurs are described as "water dinosaurs".

In reality, these are water dinosaurs.
VVV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJtF4VvKBTA


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11 Jun 2018, 3:13 pm

Kurgan wrote:
AstroPi wrote:
Plants contain enough for us. If we were biologically designed to eat meat, we would NEED to eat it. We're not designed, even one wrong bacteria found in raw meat can kill us, you should expect more from over 2 million years of evolution?


If you're going to eat enough plants to get enough proteins to gain muscle, you'll get fat. Several omnivores (eg. bears) can survive without meat, but it's not healthy. Also, dental problems first started showing up when humans started eating grains.

I eat raw fish all the time. It never killed me.

Quote:
Our vision evolved when we were still monkeys living on trees, and it later became useful for precise picking objects. It presents major flaw when used for hunting: we must rely entirely on it, since we can't smell nor hear very well, so it creates a problem how to avoid predators and hunt at the same time.


Our vision developed when we were apes, but the vision of a tree-climbing monkey is different from that of an ape. Humans have excellent hearing in certain frequencies, and the lack of smell only shows that we're not scavengers.

Quote:

Evolution doesn't work like that. It doesn't have a vision/purpose: "let's grow them bigger brains, but for that we must make their jaw smaller". it's rather: "Their foods no longer contain enough proteins, so their jaw must became smaller, and it gives a room for growing bigger brains, is bigger brain better? Do we have enough energy to sustain it? Then do it!". If we ate more meat, our jaw would became larger, our muscles would grow, consuming the energy needed for bigger brain.


Pre-humans born with a smaller jaw had a bigger brain because there was room for one. A big jaw interfered with the brain development, and as such, individuals with larger brains survived and reproduced, while individuals with larger brains did not.

Muscle mass is purely a lifestyle thing. The strongest human that ever lived is by far stronger than the strongest neanderthal that ever lived.

Quote:
Have you seen any predator with teeth like that? Our teeth are perfectly capable of crushing the glass, does it mean we evolved as glass eaters?


False analogy.

Quote:
Long fangs are BETTER for eating meat, so there's no evolutionary reason for loosing them,


It's not better for eating frozen meat or bone marrow.

Quote:
I wrote it to show that taeniae coli is not a valid argument for meat-eating. Our jaw system cannot deal with breaking the bones, one needs long fangs for that. And bone marrow is unhealthy for us, you would expect that after 2.5 million years of evolution we would be more capable for that?


https://www.livestrong.com/article/4805 ... ne-marrow/

The massai frequently eat bone marrow.

Quote:
Domesticated, that's the culprit. But it won't kill them like us. We are very susceptible to meat bacteria. Why, if evolution had 2.5 million years to kill those of us who couldn't deal with them properly? Are you suggesting evolution doesn't work?


E. Coli infections are just as harmful to dogs as they are to us. You are misunderstanding evolution, and seem to think that bacteria does not evolve like everything else does.

Quote:
To eat bone marrow you don't need strong teeth. And problem is, how do you get that bone marrow? How do you know that nobody ate them? Proof? Other than lack of evidence?


I cannot prove a negative. There's evidence that farming arose due to food shortages, though, and that dental problems were nonexistant prior to then.

Quote:
Exactly, only if meat is tender, it means we can eat it by accident, like many other things, but we didn't evolve as meat-eaters. Eating raw fish is easy, catching it is not.


For catching fish, tools are far superior to sharp teeth.

Quote:
Who tells you to eat ungrounded grains? Birds have stones in their stomach to ground them.


We do not. Birds do not have teeth either, where grains would get stuck.

Quote:
We always had stones for that too, but not inside, only outside. Even primitive monkeys are capable of grounding things, it was definitely possible for us even 2.5 million years ago.


Grinding grain with stones would require a lot of energy and would still be damn near impossible to pick up and eat afterwards.

Quote:
example grain-eating birds can. Rabbits don't eat grains, cows are stupid because we've made them that way, stupid cows were easier to domesticate than smart ones. When you're a prey you need prediction/imagination abilities to know that you must be careful, to know when it's safe and where it's safe, you must have the notion of future to have bigger chances of avoiding the danger.


Or you can reproduce quickly, like a rabbit does. Intelligent prey animals are mostly found in the savannah, but only because predators there are intelligent as well.

Quote:
When you're predator you can rely entirely on your senses and don't need much intelligence, only to keep as low as possible while hunting.


An unintelligent tiger would be killed by large prey animals. A gaur would kill it easily, for example. A stoat would not stand a chance against a rabbit either without intelligence to back it up.

Quote:
Have you seen the lion outsmarting zebra? But it's crucial for prey to outsmart the predator, because constant running away requires too much food and energy.


Yes. Lions hunt together and have a pattern that the zebra will not be able to predict.

Quote:
But we're talking of about 2.5 million years ago. Are you suggesting our ancestors had guns back then? If not, tell me how to kill a prey by throwing stones at it, how to kill a predator who is attacking us? What is faster, finding enough stones or being killed by a lion?


Our ancestors had spears and were able to set traps. Certain prey animals could also be chased over cliffs and killed that way.

Quote:
So is it 50% stronger, or equal?


No stronger than a somewhat serious gym-goer.

Quote:
No? Can you die from eating few days old grains?


Yes. Certain bacterial and fungal grain infections are deadly. Even mold can kill you if you're unlucky.

Quote:
What harm? Fiber is crucial if you want to eat meat and not get sick afterwards, because of our too long intestines, it means we had to eat grains before we've started to eat meat, not the other way round. Fiber is neutral in itself. And those symptoms prove our mutual/symbiotic evolution.


Our intestines relative to bodylength are only 20% longer than those of a dog. Too much fiber leads to bloating and low testosterone levels, among others. It's one of the things people are actually reacting to when they think they have gluten intolerance.

Humans need small amounts of fiber, but so does a cat.

Quote:
Why do you ignore animal fat from meat? It's very unhealthy, it just blocks your veins?


It depends on the amount you eat and the type of fat. Wild animals often have far less bodyfat than captive animals. Furthermore, several animals are deliberately bred to have a lot of saturated fat on them. If it's not exaggerated, saturated fat is still a good source of energy.

Quote:
So surplus carbohydrates are also source of energy, because YOUR fat is basically stored energy needed when you face food shortages. That was always a norm, not huge protein intake, even few hundreds years ago meat eating was accidental.


There's hard, irrefutable evidence that Homo Sapiens Sapiens always ate meat.

Quote:
We were never stonger/bigger. Big muscles require a lot of energy, brain needs a lot of energy, and you can't combine both by eating proteins. And we now eat the biggest amounts of proteins in (pre)history. It's not healthy, you can consult your doctor if you don't believe me


Big muscles do not automatically require a lot of energy. I boosted my resting metabolism by a "whopping" 500 calories per day by gaining 20-ish kg of muscle.

People in several communities ate more proteins in the past. My grandfather would eat fish 6 times per week during and shortly after WWII, for example. My grandmother would eat a lot of rabbit meat. The meat back then was far more pure and less watered down by flour and other unhealthy components. Scandinavians in the stone age would eat 90% meat during the winter.


Well done there, Kurgan. That's pretty comprehensive. I tend to think that vegetarians are the sort of people who would eat only meat, if everyone else was vegetarian. It's about 'look at me, look at me, I'm different (and also morally superior)'. There are too many people who have seen Disney type cartoons with talking animals and apparently believe them to be documentaries. If mankind had been vegetarian for much of our time on the planet, we would have been extinct tens of thousands of years ago. The planet is frequently horrifically cold and, during those long periods, the idea of a herbivorous human is nonsense. You hunted, or died. You did not hunt berries! We are an omnivore. Thinking meat eating is immoral or wrong is merely egocentric. Similarly, the idea that our ancestors somehow wrongly chose to eat meat is baseless. The idea that our ancestors had time to make middle-class moral choices is absurd. You got enough food into your belly or you died. Life was nasty, brutish and short.