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naturalplastic
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16 Nov 2018, 4:29 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
I like irrational numbers, like "square root of 2", because they make you think.

How can a number that never terminates, possibly exist in reality?
Image


The irony is that not only do irrational numbers exist, they are majority of numbers. Its the rational numbers (integers, and fractions that have a terminus, or a repeating pattern in their digital form) that are the exceptions.

Sure, they exist in your mind, like vampires and werewolfs.

However, how can a number that never terminates represent a definite length in reality?


Get real.

ALL numbers "only exist in your mind like vampires".

What do you think most lengths are?

If you take a yardstick and just randomly hit it with an axe the axe will not likely cut the yardstick right at designated marking for a number of inches, nor right at a half inch, or a quarter inch, etc.

Most points on a yardstick are between the man made markings for the man made units of measurement on the yardstick. And they are not located at evenly divisible fractions of those manmade markings either (use your imagination and imaging you zeroing in on the yardstick down to the atomic level and beyond). Most atoms on a yardstick are at positions on the yardstick that can only be described as being at irrational number decimal units of the inches, or centimeters used on the ruler.



LoveNotHate
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16 Nov 2018, 8:03 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
I like irrational numbers, like "square root of 2", because they make you think.

How can a number that never terminates, possibly exist in reality?
Image


The irony is that not only do irrational numbers exist, they are majority of numbers. Its the rational numbers (integers, and fractions that have a terminus, or a repeating pattern in their digital form) that are the exceptions.

Sure, they exist in your mind, like vampires and werewolfs.

However, how can a number that never terminates represent a definite length in reality?


Get real.

ALL numbers "only exist in your mind like vampires".

What do you think most lengths are?

Whether math actually exists in reality is indeed a philosophical question. Math realism vs Math anti-realism (math fiction)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mathematics



naturalplastic wrote:
If you take a yardstick and just randomly hit it with an axe the axe will not likely cut the yardstick right at designated marking for a number of inches, nor right at a half inch, or a quarter inch, etc.

Most points on a yardstick are between the man made markings for the man made units of measurement on the yardstick. And they are not located at evenly divisible fractions of those manmade markings either (use your imagination and imaging you zeroing in on the yardstick down to the atomic level and beyond). Most atoms on a yardstick are at positions on the yardstick that can only be described as being at irrational number decimal units of the inches, or centimeters used on the ruler.

You're glossing over the indefiniteness of irrational numbers.

The SQR(2) never, ever ends. NEVER.

Yet, somehow that's suppose to represent some definite length in reality?

How? Search online if you must and see how math people try to explain it, a hard question, not to be dismissed so easily.


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naturalplastic
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16 Nov 2018, 8:19 pm

Youre looking at it the wrong way around.

There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.

Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.



LoveNotHate
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16 Nov 2018, 8:25 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Youre looking at it the wrong way around.

There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.

Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.

Ok.

However, irrational numbers don't seem like points, since they never terminate.

How can a never terminating number be a "point"?
Image


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naturalplastic
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16 Nov 2018, 9:42 pm

They are like a road going to the horizon. Always approaching the horizon, but never reaching it.



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16 Nov 2018, 10:50 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Youre looking at it the wrong way around.

There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.

Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.

Ok.

However, irrational numbers don't seem like points, since they never terminate.

How can a never terminating number be a "point"?
Image


It's still a point. You just can't calculate the precise location of the point on the number line.



LoveNotHate
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20 Nov 2018, 4:08 am

kokopelli wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Youre looking at it the wrong way around.

There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.

Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.

Ok.

However, irrational numbers don't seem like points, since they never terminate.

How can a never terminating number be a "point"?
Image


It's still a point. You just can't calculate the precise location of the point on the number line.

Ok. I can imagine that mentally.

However, is your position that this incalculable number point exists in reality?


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kokopelli
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21 Nov 2018, 2:41 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Youre looking at it the wrong way around.

There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.

Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.

Ok.

However, irrational numbers don't seem like points, since they never terminate.

How can a never terminating number be a "point"?
Image


It's still a point. You just can't calculate the precise location of the point on the number line.

Ok. I can imagine that mentally.

However, is your position that this incalculable number point exists in reality?


It exists in the same manner as any other number. That is, it exists as a logical concept. There is no physical object that you can point to and say, "this is the number one".



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24 Nov 2018, 4:05 am

My favourite number is the secret integer that exists between 3 and 4.


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naturalplastic
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24 Nov 2018, 10:51 pm

My favorite number is the first number after zero.

Not "1". That would be "the first integer after zero".

I mean "the first number after zero".

Aka "one over infinity".



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24 Nov 2018, 10:54 pm

12


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26 Nov 2018, 1:39 am

My favorites are 13, 58, and 65.


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LoveNotHate
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28 Nov 2018, 3:47 pm

kokopelli wrote:
It exists in the same manner as any other number. That is, it exists as a logical concept. There is no physical object that you can point to and say, "this is the number one".

The debate was whether irrational numbers like SQR(2) correctly represent a definite lengths in reality?

In other words, can an indefinite (irrational) number represent a definite length in reality?


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29 Nov 2018, 10:58 pm

Only as far as it can be measured.


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30 Nov 2018, 11:59 am

99 which represents the level I would train my FF RPG characters to.

999 and 9999 are close runners up.


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