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AspE
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29 Jan 2019, 9:58 am

Crimadella wrote:
AspE, I wasn't going to call you out but now you have abandoned your 'science' talk on this particular subject, that shows me my thoughts were correct, you are politically driven to make arguments, not scientifically driven. That is why you express this odd thinking patter of any thing left 'good', anything right 'bad', most sensible people have positions that can be on either side. Guess what gender I am now? So very laughable!

Your mind is too political, that's what drives you to even flat out lie, as long as it benefits your political views. That is very sad from my perspective, I prefer to always take an honest approach.

I cited nothing but science, and you responded with arguments from incredulity. You are the one being political. I agree the science of gender will lead to sociological issues, as our culture has yet to adapt to revealed science. I've said little so far about right and left, but you are clearly operating from a right perspective, the side most obviously anti-science and pro-industry, and they don't seem to care when inconvenient facts get in the way of their political agenda. I hope someday you can transcend your politics and deal with reality as it is, not how you want it to be.



AspE
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29 Jan 2019, 10:02 am

Crimadella wrote:
I wonder what's next on the agenda for SAW's? Perhaps you all should attack the colors blue and red to appeal to color blind people, we will call them, dark gray and dark gray 2.

Actually, color classification is indeed culturally influenced. Ancient Japan never acknowledged the color green. It was thought of as a shade of blue.

So wrap your little head around that.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nihong ... olors/amp/



AspE
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29 Jan 2019, 10:04 am

Crimadella wrote:
The problem with snowflakes is they eventually melt, can't take the heat. Lol :lol:

Uh huh. Snowflakes chew up mountains and spit them into the sea, changing all life on Earth. :D



Crimadella
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29 Jan 2019, 10:48 am

Really??? I just typed a lot out, gone in just one second due to keyboard malfunction...

The word was hijacked. My mom took biology and has a degree in it. When she went to school your gender was equal to your biological sex. 'Boy girls' did not exist. To me, it is insanity, not all gays, feminists or scientists agree with it. It brings you into an odd realm where to find out the gender of a monkey, which did exist, you have to get the monkey's opinion. You have to have 'culture' to have gender. It's irrational no matter how one tries to spin it and it will cause problems and is causing problems as someone has already pointed out. Women's sports is now open to men if they simply identify as a woman. It uses the same identifier words, male and female. Thus allowing pure nonsense like the statement, "I'm a boy girl, a boy boy, a girl boy, a girl girl" If you think that's rational, I can't help you. You can disagree all you want, not all people are rational in all subjects.

AspE, perhaps we should appeal to the other color blind people and change all colors, seems to be more inline with 'culture'. As I stated, I'm not the only one who disagree, even within the science community there seems to be a lot of disagreement. I'm not the only one that sees the problem with it as many do. It leads way to people being able to 'shift' gender when it benefits them. Anyway, continue to disagree all you want, I'm done debating on this nonsense.



Fnord
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29 Jan 2019, 10:50 am

Crim, you don't have a science degree, do you?



Crimadella
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29 Jan 2019, 10:53 am

No i don't, and I don't see how that would even matter. I can read and I can watch interview with scientists and I've talked to many of them throughout my life.



Fnord
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29 Jan 2019, 10:55 am

Crimadella wrote:
No i don't...
Then you have no professional authority on the subject of this thread, and everything you have posted is merely your opinion.

STEM degrees make all of the difference.



AspE
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29 Jan 2019, 10:56 am

Crimadella wrote:
Really???

You see what you want to see. The color issue I mentioned has nothing to do with color blindness, but it does go to show how culture influences perception. You can remain as uncomfortable as you wish about the ambiguity of gender, it changes nothing. Neither does any potential social problems resulting from science. And of course you are paranoid about anyone exploiting this for personal gain, which is no doubt what you would do, being a cynical conservative that thinks the worst of humanity. You never did debate the science except to talk about past misconceptions.



Crimadella
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29 Jan 2019, 11:01 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_g ... istinction
" The historic meaning of gender, ultimately derived from Latin genus, was of "kind" or "variety". By the 20th century, this meaning was obsolete, and the only formal use of gender was in grammar. This changed in the early 1970s when the work of John Money, particularly the popular college textbook Man & Woman, Boy & Girl, was embraced by feminist theory. This meaning of gender is now prevalent in the social sciences, although in many other contexts, gender includes sex or replaces it. Gender was first only used in languages to describe the feminine and masculine words, up until around the 1960s."

That statement does not apply. I have watched many interviews with professionals including evolutionary biologists and sexologists, are you insisting people can't learn from others and agree with them? Do we need a degree in every field of science we wish to comment on? If a professional states something, then I restate it, does that make it just an opinion because I stated it while the professional came to his understand by means of education and research?



Crimadella
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29 Jan 2019, 11:04 am

AspE wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
Really???

You see what you want to see. The color issue I mentioned has nothing to do with color blindness, but it does go to show how culture influences perception. You can remain as uncomfortable as you wish about the ambiguity of gender, it changes nothing. Neither does any potential social problems resulting from science. And of course you are paranoid about anyone exploiting this for personal gain, which is no doubt what you would do, being a cynical conservative that thinks the worst of humanity. You never did debate the science except to talk about past misconceptions.

Are you just blind to reality? It has already been exploited, that's not a theory. Either way, I'm going to stop reading this so I'm not tempted to respond. There is no winning, so lets agree to disagree or you can keep rambling as you desire. I'm done with it, I've spent way to much time researching this bunk science. I do have other things to do.



Fnord
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29 Jan 2019, 11:08 am

Crimadella wrote:
... I have watched many interviews with professionals including evolutionary biologists and sexologists, are you insisting people can't learn from others and agree with them? Do we need a degree in every field of science we wish to comment on? If a professional states something, then I restate it, does that make it just an opinion because I stated it while the professional came to his understand by means of education and research?
I have watched many surgeons perform open-heart surgery; would you want me to operate on you even though I am not a surgeon? I have watched many pilots fly airliners; would you want to ride in a plane with me as the pilot? My father was an electrician; would you want me to come over and re-wire your house?

Merely observing a professional does not make you a professional, too. It only makes you familiar with what the professionals do.

By not being a professional geneticist, biologist, human behaviorist, or medical practitioner, all you can give is your opinion, that's all. If you were one of these professionals, I would have to give serious consideration to what you say on this topic.

As it stands, your opinions on this topic are no better than any ordinary individual -- you are not an authority on this topic.



Crimadella
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29 Jan 2019, 11:11 am

Fnord wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
No i don't...
Then you have no professional authority on the subject of this thread, and everything you have posted is merely your opinion.

STEM degrees make all of the difference.



My last comment here.

So, are you a biologist, is everyone who commented here a biologist except me? I have learned much on the topic, does that not count because I'm not a biologist. When I see an evolutionary biologist disagree with this and list out the reasoning behind it, can I not understand him and take his 'research' and agree with him. Do we need a degree in everything we wish to talk about or all we have is opinion. I know the definition of a lot of words, I have no degree in any language, so if I quote the definition of a word, does it only count as an opinion because of my lack of degree in language. That's a very weak argument.

I do have a keen sense of logic, I started programming when I was 10, I taught myself how to play a guitar, I taught myself how to build swimming pools, I taught myself a lot about electricity and the electromagnetic force. I love learning things so throughout my life I have explored and learned. Like I said, that is such a weak argument, I don't have a degree so anything I could say is opinion.

And what do you do when 'authorities' disagree? Take no stance at all and keep your mouth shut?



Last edited by Crimadella on 29 Jan 2019, 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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29 Jan 2019, 11:16 am

Crimadella wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
No i don't...
Then you have no professional authority on the subject of this thread, and everything you have posted is merely your opinion. STEM degrees make all of the difference.
My last comment here. So, are you a biologist, is everyone who commented here a biologist except me? I have learned much on the topic, does that not count because I'm not a biologist. When I see an evolutionary biologist disagree with this and list out the reasoning behind it, can I not understand him and take his 'research' and agree with him. Do we need a degree in everything we wish to talk about or all we have is opinion. I know the definition of a lot of words, I have no degree in any language, so if I quote the definition of a word, does it only count as an opinion because of my lack of degree in language. That's a very weak argument.
As I said, As it stands, your opinions on this topic are no better than any ordinary individual -- you are not an authority on this topic. This means that your opinions are no more valid than mine, AspE's, or the opinions of anyone else who posts in this thread. Yet it seems to me that you are trying to assert an untenable positions as the be-all and do- all of human sexuality and gender identity.

Please try to accept the fact that other people have opinions as well, and that those opinions do not have to agree with your own.

Thank you.



Crimadella
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29 Jan 2019, 11:19 am

I don't understand, thought that's what I did when i stated, "lets agree to disagree"

I will state the obvious though. It seems if my comment disagrees with an opposing comment, my comment is purely opinion. If I get in trouble for insulting which was a response to others insulting me and others, then I'm wrong to do so while the others can continue the personal insults, seems a bit outweighed doesn't it? Anyone who would agree with me is unable to make personal insults and discriminate, "righties" (while the funny thing is I'm not even a "rightie") while the opposing is free to add personal insults at will.

Further more, if i express my opinion and it imposes on others opinions it is registered as 'not allowing others to have their own opinion' while they can continue to express their opinion. Which leaves me in a state of confusion, a lop sided rule, so if I have an opinion that opposes i'm not even free to express it.



AspE
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29 Jan 2019, 2:39 pm

I don't agree to disagree, this is not a matter of opinion. Cindarella is free to counter my scientific argument with a counter argument based on science, but just saying that other scientists disagree is not an argument.