People who complain about diversity annoy me

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TwisterUprocker
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18 Jul 2020, 12:31 am

They annoy me just as much as people who demand diversity. Both of them keep on demanding that media should attend every single need of theirs.

People criticize SJWs for how they whine about only to fall into the exact same line of thinking. A movie should be allowed to offensive to any demographic, yes even White Cishets like myself.

Plenty of stories tell poor messages. I have known that for a long time. That doesn't mean that they can't be fun.

Sorry if I ramble, I just really needed to get this off your chest.



Kraichgauer
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18 Jul 2020, 1:32 am

No problem with having your own opinion.
These days, television and movie producers - some genuinely interested in social justice and representing those previously left underrepresented, while others who cynically want to ride the current political wave for monetary gain - are interested in reflecting a more diverse America these days.


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cyberdad
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18 Jul 2020, 1:55 am

Since joining WP I am finding my views on diversity to be much more centralist although I used to be more left.

The reality is that compromise is necessary for both sides.



TwisterUprocker
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18 Jul 2020, 5:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
No problem with having your own opinion.
These days, television and movie producers - some genuinely interested in social justice and representing those previously left underrepresented, while others who cynically want to ride the current political wave for monetary gain - are interested in reflecting a more diverse America these days.


I understand that the motives are not always the noblest, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.



smudge
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18 Jul 2020, 5:26 pm

I just don't like complainers full stop. I mean if they're going through a bad time, then that's fair. But the kind of person who complains about people complaining just...they can be too much, and almost certainly they will eventually find something about you to complain about, as well as everyone else.


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usagibryan
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18 Jul 2020, 5:30 pm

What drives me absolutely crazy are people who complain about gay characters in movies/tv shows. They say they are unnecessary or ask why does this character have to be gay. Well why do they need a reason to be gay? Straight characters don't need a reason to be straight, that's just the default, and it's nice to be represented and see people who are like you or have the same experiences as you in media, so its really annoying when people complain that gay characters exist.

I do think it's weird to retcon characters as gay though, like Dumbledore or Iceman, but that's because I find it pandering and lazy.



Kraichgauer
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18 Jul 2020, 6:27 pm

TwisterUprocker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
No problem with having your own opinion.
These days, television and movie producers - some genuinely interested in social justice and representing those previously left underrepresented, while others who cynically want to ride the current political wave for monetary gain - are interested in reflecting a more diverse America these days.


I understand that the motives are not always the noblest, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.


I agree.


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Bradleigh
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18 Jul 2020, 6:34 pm

To a good subset of people there are two kinds of characters; Straight white man, or political.

They are so used to what is considered the default, that anything that varies is considered part of some agenda, being evidence that more work was put into making characters diverse than being as meaningful as other characters. I think that a lot of such complainers are largely insecure in themselves.


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Offset
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18 Jul 2020, 7:53 pm

Well you have an unpopular opinion about this, and it's fine. I do see where you're coming from. You just want to see a good story, and to hell with the politics. I understand. But it's deeper than that, and you have to see the bigger picture and why diversity is important.

However, it's kinda universally accepted and understood, especially finally now, that the media has a diversity problem. It's not just with race but that is one category.

As a gay black man myself, possibly it's easier for me to understand this, and why this is a problem, but I don't know.



cyberdad
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18 Jul 2020, 7:59 pm

Offset wrote:
I understand. But it's deeper than that, and you have to see the bigger picture and why diversity is important.


You have a platform Offset. tell us why it's important?



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18 Jul 2020, 8:08 pm

Offset wrote:
Well you have an unpopular opinion about this, and it's fine. I do see where you're coming from. You just want to see a good story, and to hell with the politics. I understand. But it's deeper than that, and you have to see the bigger picture and why diversity is important.

However, it's kinda universally accepted and understood, especially finally now, that the media has a diversity problem. It's not just with race but that is one category.

As a gay black man myself, possibly it's easier for me to understand this, and why this is a problem, but I don't know.


Diversity is important, whether having some reflection of real life, or focusing on groups that have historically been ignored.

I think that you can see the sort of anti-diversity as the types that railed against a show like the recent She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, which really made its way with filling itself with some diversity, although rarely made itself about being something like a minority, characters just were.


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cyberdad
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18 Jul 2020, 8:15 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
I think that you can see the sort of anti-diversity as the types that railed against a show like the recent She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, which really made its way with filling itself with some diversity, although rarely made itself about being something like a minority, characters just were.


People protested about anime???



Bradleigh
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18 Jul 2020, 8:32 pm

cyberdad wrote:
People protested about anime???


A children's cartoon. Reactionaries, like a guy who goes by The Quartering, complained that things like the bellow character design were to masculine that she was practically a boy.

Image

Pretty much that it was not as much of a sexy design as the old series.

Image

The whole show was inclusive with things like gay couples, skin colours and body shapes.


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18 Jul 2020, 8:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Offset wrote:
I understand. But it's deeper than that, and you have to see the bigger picture and why diversity is important.


You have a platform Offset. tell us why it's important?


Okay, first of all, every story needs diversity to some degree. When people think of diversity, people usually think of race or racial culture. Yes, but no. Looking at many family and kid movies, you can see where diversity plays in subtle ways. Diversity can be as simple as having younger characters mixed in with older characters, having two brothers to where one brother is a jock and athletic and alpha male, and one brother is geeky or timid etc. Having kids that come from privileged background who associate with characters from middle class backgrounds etc.

Even in unconventional stories, like Toy Story to where characters are inanimate objects. You still had diverse tropes that the toys had. Woody was a militant leader, Buzz Lightyear was a no nonsense space commander, Rex the dinosaur had anxiety issues, Jessie didn't trust humans, Wheezy felt neglected and ignored etc.

But diversity can more bluntly be just having people who visually look different. What I liked about Goonies, and Sandlot and Harriet The Spy growing up, is that you could see characters of several different colors and cultures. It just related more to me as a child of color. Kids other than white exist lol.

I'll also add, that it sort of breaks barriers and makes things more inclusive. I'm going to use video games, as video games have a terrible track record of not having diverse characters usually. Final Fantasy 7 had Barrett, which it was nice to see a black character in a setting like that, as a black person playing the game, it was nice to relate.

With LGBT characters, this is sort of a controversial topic. Despite the fact I am a queer person myself, I'll tread lightly and with caution. Again, it's mostly just for inclusivity, and that we just want to be like everyone else and be included.

(Also, I do not like retconning, or when diversity is played with a negative connotation. Changing an already established characters race or sexual orientation is stupid and ignorant. I also don't like negative diversity portrayals. Princess Tiana was Disney's first black princess, but she was a frog the entire story and that was kinda unnerving. Spies in Disguise, the main character was black, but was turned into a pigeon for the entire movie. Pixar has a movie coming out Soul, to where a black jazz musician turns into a blue slime monster for the movie. So yeah.)

That's just what i have to say, why diversity is important, and yeah



League_Girl
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18 Jul 2020, 9:05 pm

I can understand the criticsm of having POC play white characters that were originally white or having a Chinese person playing George Washington. You wouldn't have a white person play Mulan, you would need an Asian actress to play her.

But whenever I see the right wing complain about diversity on film or LGBT, I just roll my eyes. It's one thing to complain about a black person playing George Washington than complaining about a film having people of color in it because they feel there are way too many POC in it. I wonder if anyone ever complained about the Disney film Princess and the Frog because they had black Disney characters.


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cyberdad
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18 Jul 2020, 11:05 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
People protested about anime???


A children's cartoon. Reactionaries, like a guy who goes by The Quartering, complained that things like the bellow character design were to masculine that she was practically a boy.

Image

Pretty much that it was not as much of a sexy design as the old series.

Image

The whole show was inclusive with things like gay couples, skin colours and body shapes.


Fascinating! I never thought animators would do that? do you think they are deliberately trying to desexualise the female character by giving male characteristics? I certainly remember masturbating to the old wonder woman (who resembled the actress Linda Carter) but find the modern wonder woman very neutral. Perhaps its a form of censorship?