Australian soap Neighbours is ending forever

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cyberdad
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02 Aug 2022, 6:58 am

KitLily wrote:
There are so many different versions of English that we can tell which is which, you see. Like the actor Alexander Dreymon (Uhtred in the Last Kingdom). He sounds English to Australians, but he does in fact have a German accent (because he's German-American).


I've watched all the series of the Last Kingdom. Yeah I picked up Dreymon's German accent.

I have posted before I wanted Mel Gibson to do an authentic Anglo-Saxon period piece where the cast speak in Old English. I have a weird fascination for how old English sounds.



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02 Aug 2022, 8:34 am

Finally got around to watching the finale. Some thoughts:

Guy Pierce is a hero. He didn't just show up for a cameo, he had a proper little story arc and a pretty emotional one too. For my money this finale would have been much less affecting without him. Put some of the lesser 'big stars' to shame in my opinion.

Was it just me or did the editing go completely mental towards the end? It was like the editors just gave up even trying to maintain continuity and the music was like some toddler was just randomly hitting cue buttons. Really weird.

There were quite a few old faces who didn't get any recognition for being there - Madge, Doug Willis, Lucas - no one mentioned them as far as I noticed, they were just there in the background (did they die in storylines? I can't remember).

Why didn't Kylie say anything? It was weird.

Where was Tom Oliver (Lou?) I could have sworn I'd seen cast pictures of the last filming day where he was there, but I didn't see him in the show. I did notice that the letter Terese was holding was addressed to T. Oliver though - don't know if that was an intentional easter egg or just a weird coincidence.

It was good.



KitLily
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02 Aug 2022, 10:58 am

cyberdad wrote:
I've watched all the series of the Last Kingdom. Yeah I picked up Dreymon's German accent.

I have posted before I wanted Mel Gibson to do an authentic Anglo-Saxon period piece where the cast speak in Old English. I have a weird fascination for how old English sounds.


I mean when Alexander Dreymon is interviewed out of character and isn't putting on an American accent.

I'd LOVE that about the Anglo Saxon period piece. I love old English. I'm not sure Mel Gibson is the right choice though.

There is this book (in the link below), called How We'd Talk if the English had Won in 1066 It is so brilliant. If the damn French hadn't invaded England in 1066 and let the French language flood England, we'd still be speaking a version of Old English! Instead of the English/French we speak today :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQhqzRlJCjk


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KitLily
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02 Aug 2022, 11:06 am

DuckHairback wrote:
Finally got around to watching the finale. Some thoughts:

Guy Pierce is a hero. He didn't just show up for a cameo, he had a proper little story arc and a pretty emotional one too. For my money this finale would have been much less affecting without him. Put some of the lesser 'big stars' to shame in my opinion.


He is! He gave it 100% didn't he. He didn't just do a Zoom call or something. The finale would indeed have been less without Guy. Did you see the lovely tweet he wrote about it too? He said he was glad Mike and Jane got back together :heart: Bless him. So Mike, Jane and Sammy are now living happily ever after in Chloe's old house. :heart:

DuckHairback wrote:
Was it just me or did the editing go completely mental towards the end? It was like the editors just gave up even trying to maintain continuity and the music was like some toddler was just randomly hitting cue buttons. Really weird.


I can't say I noticed that but I was too busy peering out through my tears and wiping my eyes :lol:

DuckHairback wrote:
There were quite a few old faces who didn't get any recognition for being there - Madge, Doug Willis, Lucas - no one mentioned them as far as I noticed, they were just there in the background (did they die in storylines? I can't remember).


I actually didn't recognise a lot of the old characters e.g. Tad, Lance and all the women. Especially Lucas! I had to get a list of Returnees to work out who Lucas was! :lol: It was so lovely to see Madge, Doug, Sonya and Hendrix! I was soooo angry when they killed off Hendrix so near the end!

DuckHairback wrote:
Why didn't Kylie say anything? It was weird.


She and Jason apparently didn't want to overshadow the regulars and make it all about them, and their bit was filmed out of sequence so I guess they didn't want to be talking nonsense which didn't relate to the others.

DuckHairback wrote:
Where was Tom Oliver (Lou?) I could have sworn I'd seen cast pictures of the last filming day where he was there, but I didn't see him in the show. I did notice that the letter Terese was holding was addressed to T. Oliver though - don't know if that was an intentional easter egg or just a weird coincidence.


Yes, I so wished Lou could have been there and argued with Harold! What a pity but he is 85 now, maybe he's in bad health. He always reminds me of Sid James! That name was an Easter Egg, apparently, to pay tribute to him.

I loved those last few episodes and the finale. :heart:


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cyberdad
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02 Aug 2022, 5:24 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
Finally got around to watching the finale. Some thoughts:

Guy Pierce is a hero. He didn't just show up for a cameo, he had a proper little story arc and a pretty emotional one too. For my money this finale would have been much less affecting without him. Put some of the lesser 'big stars' to shame in my opinion..


He certainly still looks very young riding a motorbike



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03 Aug 2022, 2:47 am

cyberdad wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
Guy Pierce is a hero. He didn't just show up for a cameo, he had a proper little story arc and a pretty emotional one too. For my money this finale would have been much less affecting without him. Put some of the lesser 'big stars' to shame in my opinion..


He certainly still looks very young riding a motorbike


Yes, his stunt rider even got his own name in the credits! :lol:


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cyberdad
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03 Aug 2022, 7:11 am

KitLily wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I've watched all the series of the Last Kingdom. Yeah I picked up Dreymon's German accent.

I have posted before I wanted Mel Gibson to do an authentic Anglo-Saxon period piece where the cast speak in Old English. I have a weird fascination for how old English sounds.


I mean when Alexander Dreymon is interviewed out of character and isn't putting on an American accent.

I'd LOVE that about the Anglo Saxon period piece. I love old English. I'm not sure Mel Gibson is the right choice though.

There is this book (in the link below), called How We'd Talk if the English had Won in 1066 It is so brilliant. If the damn French hadn't invaded England in 1066 and let the French language flood England, we'd still be speaking a version of Old English! Instead of the English/French we speak today :roll:


Mel Gibson could produce a movie like Apocalypto and the Passion of Christ where everyone speaks Anglo-Saxon.

There's some debate over whether the latinisation of English might have also transformed the language while concurrently adopting French vocabluary. Remember the English aristocracy already spoke Latin because the christian monks in England wrote some of the best Latin in Europe. The great vowel shift and other significant changes in the English language might have Latinisation as the cause rather than the snobby elite Normans who barely spent 2 minutes of their day speaking with the local English peasants they ruled. From the Normans we get a lot of words but the actual English language itself was already in the process of change.

I also like Chaucer's English (middle english) as it's easier to understand (less germanic) but still has a strong "Auld" English element.



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03 Aug 2022, 7:56 am

cyberdad wrote:
Mel Gibson could produce a movie like Apocalypto and the Passion of Christ where everyone speaks Anglo-Saxon.

There's some debate over whether the latinisation of English might have also transformed the language while concurrently adopting French vocabluary. Remember the English aristocracy already spoke Latin because the christian monks in England wrote some of the best Latin in Europe. The great vowel shift and other significant changes in the English language might have Latinisation as the cause rather than the snobby elite Normans who barely spent 2 minutes of their day speaking with the local English peasants they ruled. From the Normans we get a lot of words but the actual English language itself was already in the process of change.

I also like Chaucer's English (middle english) as it's easier to understand (less germanic) but still has a strong "Auld" English element.


I didn't know that about Mel Gibson! Good for him.

It annoys me that if you look up the origin of most English words, they are mostly French! Damn them :lol: The English and the French are still arguing about 1066 :lol:

But as you say, French is originally from Latin. The Normans were just the most recent invaders, I suppose they had the most recent influence and people thought it was more cool and fashionable to speak French. The Romans were 1000 years before them and left Britain about 600 years before 1066.

Apparently as time went on, the French monarchs and court made a big effort to be bilingual and include the English speakers. The French ruled us for about 300 years I think? But obviously there was increasing integration between the French and English, as always happens with invaders.

Oh yes, The Canterbury Tales! We studied those at school and watched a really funny play based on them. Chaucer was a naughty fellow.

Have you read Gawain and the Green Knight? Nobody know who wrote it. That is also Middle English but a different dialect so it's impossible to understand without a translation. I think it's a Northern dialect, but Chaucer wrote in a Southern dialect I think? And that's the one we speak today.

You should get that book I recommended, it is so interesting! Another interesting thing is apparently the DNA of Britain is mostly Anglo Saxon. All the other invaders didn't make much impression.


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cyberdad
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04 Aug 2022, 1:54 am

KitLily wrote:
It annoys me that if you look up the origin of most English words, they are mostly French! Damn them :lol: The English and the French are still arguing about 1066 :lol:

But as you say, French is originally from Latin. The Normans were just the most recent invaders, I suppose they had the most recent influence and people thought it was more cool and fashionable to speak French. The Romans were 1000 years before them and left Britain about 600 years before 1066..


Yes there are number of words common to both French and Latin so it's hard to disentangle the origins. From the time of the Romans the aristocracy of Britain were fluent in Latin and from the time the first Anglo-Saxons were christianised they learned the liturgy which was written in Latin.

Alfred the great spent much of his childhood in Rome and was very well read in Latin as much literature was in that language rather than old English which was the language of the peasantry.



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04 Aug 2022, 1:57 am

KitLily wrote:
Apparently as time went on, the French monarchs and court made a big effort to be bilingual and include the English speakers. The French ruled us for about 300 years I think? But obviously there was increasing integration between the French and English, as always happens with invaders.


The French Normans were very particular about separating themselves from the English peasants whom they held in disdain as uncouth and backward. There was very little interaction although I am certain the Norman troops (like the Roman army) must have interacted with the locals.



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04 Aug 2022, 2:05 am

KitLily wrote:
[
Another interesting thing is apparently the DNA of Britain is mostly Anglo Saxon. All the other invaders didn't make much impression.


Yes this is correct. The first Indo-European speakers (Beaker people) entered britain and wiped out the paleolithic population who built Stonehenge This group because predominant in Britain making up 90% of the celtic DNA and 50-60% of the English population DNA. Of course the English bought in the rest.

The origin of English speakers is shrouded in mystery, I watched an interesting documentary on how the earliest Anglo-Saxon pottery in what is England actually matches the exact same tribes mention by the venerable Bede and the boundaries of the first Angle and Saxon kingdoms - Wessex, Mercia, Northumbria, Kent, Anglia etc...



KitLily
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04 Aug 2022, 8:07 am

cyberdad wrote:
The French Normans were very particular about separating themselves from the English peasants whom they held in disdain as uncouth and backward. There was very little interaction although I am certain the Norman troops (like the Roman army) must have interacted with the locals.


Yes, all invaders integrate and interbreed with with the locals. Even the aristocracy were married to each other for political reasons e.g. alliances, gaining land. I think as time went on, the French court realised they had to actually interact with the people they ruled and became more open to them. As of course they became more and more English over the 300 years and started being born in England instead of France, and their first language became English instead of French.

That's the silliest thing. Most of us 'English' people are descended from the French and we're all mixed. All these Brexiters going on about 'foreigners' and only wanting purebred English people to live here. There's no such thing! We're all 'foreigners' :roll:

It makes me laugh when Americans say 'you English. You have no idea what it's like to be invaded!'

Erm... :lol:


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Last edited by KitLily on 04 Aug 2022, 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

KitLily
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04 Aug 2022, 8:10 am

cyberdad wrote:
KitLily wrote:
[
Another interesting thing is apparently the DNA of Britain is mostly Anglo Saxon. All the other invaders didn't make much impression.


The origin of English speakers is shrouded in mystery, I watched an interesting documentary on how the earliest Anglo-Saxon pottery in what is England actually matches the exact same tribes mention by the venerable Bede and the boundaries of the first Angle and Saxon kingdoms - Wessex, Mercia, Northumbria, Kent, Anglia etc...


Apparently historians suspect that the Anglo Saxons actually tried to wipe out the natives on purpose by not allowing them to marry each other. Each marriage had to include an Anglo Saxon so eventually the Anglo Saxon DNA prevailed. A type of ethnic cleansing.

But they aren't 100% sure about this.


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cyberdad
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04 Aug 2022, 4:48 pm

KitLily wrote:
Apparently historians suspect that the Anglo Saxons actually tried to wipe out the natives on purpose by not allowing them to marry each other. Each marriage had to include an Anglo Saxon so eventually the Anglo Saxon DNA prevailed. A type of ethnic cleansing.

But they aren't 100% sure about this.


I think that's what the DNA suggests. The male chromosome inheritance in what is today England is north-west Europe. This suggests the original Brithonic speakers were forcibly assimilated. '

There is a problem though in trying to conflate language and DNA. For example the English language is very close with Frisian but genetically they are a conglomeration of various European groups.

The earliest paleolithic groups plus the beaker people plus the celts and eventually the Anglo-Saxons all had to enter Britian from what is northern France, Belgium, Holland and western Germany. It's likely the Romans were already using troops from this region to man Hadrians wall and these were the first speakers of Germanic languages in Britain,

The famed brothers Hengist and Horsa who led the invasion of Britain following Roman exit (Brexit?) might have been Roman mercanaries who were both familiar with Britain already.



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04 Aug 2022, 4:54 pm

KitLily wrote:
That's the silliest thing. Most of us 'English' people are descended from the French and we're all mixed. All these Brexiters going on about 'foreigners' and only wanting purebred English people to live here. There's no such thing! We're all 'foreigners' :roll: :


There's a lot of Englishmen who publish podcasts on English identity and the general anxiety over immigration which fed into the whole Brexit phenomena. One of the factors was jobs I think but many of those who voted to leave were older retired folk.

Getting back to Australia, we have a love hate relationship with New Zealanders despite being of the same stock of people. I think they call it the island effect where local become somewhat insular. Having a discernable accent. foods, football teams makes one more parochial than necessary :lol:



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05 Aug 2022, 1:46 am

Let's start a new thread about all this historical stuff as it's spoiling the Neighbours theme :)


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