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Aspiegaming
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17 Aug 2024, 6:21 pm

vividgroovy wrote:
I really wanted to like this show.

I'm a furry, I like musical theater, I like irreverent humor, I'm a fan of VivziePop's earlier work like her YouTube videos and her webcomic "Zoophobia." It seems like this should be right up my alley.

To be fair, I only watched the pilot (which is canon) and the first episode. I don't have Amazon Prime. I think the problem is that modern streaming shows prioritize overarching narratives over episodic storytelling. I've been told by other people that it's shocking I would make *any* sort of judgment about a show without watching at least the entire season.

I was expecting this to be a no-holds-barred, equal-opportunity-offender shock comedy in the style of "South Park" or "Family Guy." Episode One opens with a genocide that is played 100% straight. Then we transition into a song number where the extreme violence in Hell is played for laughs. So already, I've got tonal whiplash.

Rather than focusing on the titular hotel and how the characters interact, the focus is on Princess Charlie meeting the villain, Adam, "the first man!" I don't find Adam funny, interesting or threatening. If the idea is supposed to be a kind of role-reversal with Charlie as a virtuous demon, I don't get why profanity-spewing, pointy-toothed angel Adam looks and acts so much like the denizens of Hell.

This to me is kind of like of we spent the first episode of "Cheers" barely seeing the bar or Sam and Diane interacting and instead focused on Sam meeting up with his rival Gary from Gary's Olde Town Tavern, who won't become important until much later.

I get the appeal of the show. I just feel I'm out of touch with current entertainment in general.


Again, it's interesting to see some forces of Heaven being on the lawful evil side of things instead pure lawful good. The powers above are just as if not more corrupt than the powers below. It's established no one knows how to get into heaven. There's no final judgement, just an instant automatic sorting.


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vividgroovy
Deinonychus
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17 Aug 2024, 10:46 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
vividgroovy wrote:
I really wanted to like this show.

I'm a furry, I like musical theater, I like irreverent humor, I'm a fan of VivziePop's earlier work like her YouTube videos and her webcomic "Zoophobia." It seems like this should be right up my alley.

To be fair, I only watched the pilot (which is canon) and the first episode. I don't have Amazon Prime. I think the problem is that modern streaming shows prioritize overarching narratives over episodic storytelling. I've been told by other people that it's shocking I would make *any* sort of judgment about a show without watching at least the entire season.

I was expecting this to be a no-holds-barred, equal-opportunity-offender shock comedy in the style of "South Park" or "Family Guy." Episode One opens with a genocide that is played 100% straight. Then we transition into a song number where the extreme violence in Hell is played for laughs. So already, I've got tonal whiplash.

Rather than focusing on the titular hotel and how the characters interact, the focus is on Princess Charlie meeting the villain, Adam, "the first man!" I don't find Adam funny, interesting or threatening. If the idea is supposed to be a kind of role-reversal with Charlie as a virtuous demon, I don't get why profanity-spewing, pointy-toothed angel Adam looks and acts so much like the denizens of Hell.

This to me is kind of like of we spent the first episode of "Cheers" barely seeing the bar or Sam and Diane interacting and instead focused on Sam meeting up with his rival Gary from Gary's Olde Town Tavern, who won't become important until much later.

I get the appeal of the show. I just feel I'm out of touch with current entertainment in general.


Again, it's interesting to see some forces of Heaven being on the lawful evil side of things instead pure lawful good. The powers above are just as if not more corrupt than the powers below. It's established no one knows how to get into heaven. There's no final judgement, just an instant automatic sorting.


I understand the concept of Adam. I just don't get the characterzation. Charlie and Adam are a very standard protaganist and antagonist. She's an ingenue and he's a bully. What's supposed to make them interesting is that she's a demon and he's an angel and you would expect an angel to be, as you said, Lawful Good. But look at his design. He looks like a shadow demon with horns, a mouthful of pointy teeth and blank, soulless eyes, twisted in a cruel expression. Standard villain design. The only things that maybe suggest he's an angel are his robes and wings. (Meanwhile, Charlie looks like if a Disney princess was drawn by Tim Burton.) And what does Adam act like? He's profane, dismissive, rude and violent, just like most of the characters that Charlie's encountered in Hell up to that point. So what sets him apart? What makes him angelic? And where is the subversion in having an angel for a villain if almost nothing about him comes across as angelic?

I'd probably forgive all that if he was funny. Humor is subjective I guess, but he just seemed to be one joke: he's rude.



UncannyDanny
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18 Aug 2024, 9:48 am

^Perhaps one would THINK that angelic beings are supposedly be viewed as at the very least lawful neutral at best. :| Adam, OTOH, seems to come across as neutral/chaotic evil, from the way you've described him.



colliegrace
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18 Aug 2024, 6:10 pm

Well we got 3 more seasons coming, to explore their view of Heaven and Hell and morality here

Adam is.... a narcissistic type of personality.
This comes from me having spent the last 6 months doing roleplay on tumblr. I don't RP Adam, but I've written with a couple people who've explored his character.

Essentially, he likely developed this personality as a result of his life and traumas. Narcissistic personality disorder is borne of trauma, it's a coping mechanism. An inflated sense of self, in direct contrast to the reality that you actually hate yourself.

The character I roleplay - Lucifer - is the Sin of Pride. (As established in Helluva Boss canon, which takes place in the same universe as Hazbin Hotel. But since Hazbin Hotel is owned by Amazon and Helluva Boss is not, Lucifer and the other Hazbin characters can't easily be shown in Helluva Boss.)

Lucifer, I've come to believe, developed the Sin of Pride not only because of the Christian/Biblical lore, but also as a direct contrast to heavy oppression.
Pride is often a response to oppression - and is only really a vice when in excess. When people push you down, the natural response in many cases is to take pride in the very thing they hate you for.


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vividgroovy
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19 Aug 2024, 8:45 pm

colliegrace wrote:
Well we got 3 more seasons coming, to explore their view of Heaven and Hell and morality here

Adam is.... a narcissistic type of personality.
This comes from me having spent the last 6 months doing roleplay on tumblr. I don't RP Adam, but I've written with a couple people who've explored his character.

Essentially, he likely developed this personality as a result of his life and traumas. Narcissistic personality disorder is borne of trauma, it's a coping mechanism. An inflated sense of self, in direct contrast to the reality that you actually hate yourself.

The character I roleplay - Lucifer - is the Sin of Pride. (As established in Helluva Boss canon, which takes place in the same universe as Hazbin Hotel. But since Hazbin Hotel is owned by Amazon and Helluva Boss is not, Lucifer and the other Hazbin characters can't easily be shown in Helluva Boss.)

Lucifer, I've come to believe, developed the Sin of Pride not only because of the Christian/Biblical lore, but also as a direct contrast to heavy oppression.
Pride is often a response to oppression - and is only really a vice when in excess. When people push you down, the natural response in many cases is to take pride in the very thing they hate you for.


What you've written here is more interesting to me than what I saw on the show :).

I don't mean to unfairly suggest that Adam needs to have all his character development in Episode One. It's more about how the recent shows I've tried to watch are structured in a way that doesn't draw me in. Like establishing the Big Bad before the basic daily operations of the hotel in the title. But it apparently draws in a lot of other viewers. At 43, I may simply have aged out of mainstream entertainment.

The only series that has me kind of looking forward to seeing more is "Lackadaisy," the indie cartoon about anthro cat bootleggers in the 1920s.