An Intro and an Analysis

Post Reply New Topic

Hey guys. Sorry, but this is going to be a long one!

So you guessed it, I'm new here. I'm also not sure if I have Aspergers (high-functioning) or if I'm simply socially anxious with weird habits and interests (a typical geek/nerd). I've always thought there is something odd about me, that I am different from my peers. I know I should go to an expert to figure it out, but I live in a country where you do not go to a psychiatrist or a psychologist unless you have severe enough problems to the point of dysfunction. Even then they are more interested in locking those people up rather than helping them. So yea, its major taboo to go to a shrink, one I don't mind breaking if there is a good enough reason to suspect that I need it. This is where I am hoping you guys can help and perhaps see it as a way to get to know me. Here is a list of qualities that made me think I do have it, and qualities that made me suspect that I don't. I also have no clue how delayed or not my development was during my infancy. I don't think my family paid much attention to me growing up since I am the youngest of four and I had nanny care 24/7. So while I was technically taken care of, I wasn't their main focus.

Reasons Why I think I have AS:

- I tend to obsess about things; I was the kid always in the library reading rather than hanging out with friends. If I got into a subject I would read every book the library had on it at least two to three times. Everything from black hole theories to memorizing Ancient Greek mythologies to horse/dog breeds and training (even though I didn't have pets!) I am obsessed with animals and literature; though I do love science! Especially Theory of Mind, astronomy, quantum physics, biology oh the list goes on!

- I had a very odd way of making friends. I realized when I was in third or fourth grade that all the kids had friends except me and I wanted one. So I turned to the girl that sat behind me in one of my classes, gave her a best friend bracelet and asked her if she wanted to be best friends. Keep in mind I never hung out with this girl outside of that class room. Thankfully she said yes. I was content. I never actually hung out with her after school until a year or two later. Going out with friends used to cause anxiety so I avoided it.

- While I was never bullied (thankfully) and people invited me to hang out and to go to parties, I rarely went. I actually would lie and tell them my mother wouldn't let me just so I won't go. I didn't even go to my senior prom.

- I was really into academia. Relationships rarely interested me; I liked guys growing up but I never got that hormonal surge that most of the kids seem to get. In fact I am 28 years old and technically never had a boyfriend despite there being partial interests (but that is a whole 'nother can of worms.) This part of me is extremely stunted compared to my peers.

- There was a time when I was really depressed (which I think is due to an unrelated medical condition). I became extremely anxious at social situations and preferred to be alone constantly, I was antisocial and apathetic; it got to the point where I felt like I was developing agoraphobia. So how did I deal with that? Well I figured I needed to retrain myself, similar to how one would train a dog (I was really into behavioral therapy and Diogenes of Sinope). So I did little social experiments every time I left the house, forced myself into situations, taught myself to maintain eye contact, played with body language, etc. It actually helped me to become less introverted, now I am kind of excited to see how my 'experiments' would work when I interact with others. However I still need at least 1-2 days a week where I don't interact with anybody, and I am still prone to short term apathy/depression.

- I don't know if this is stimming, but ever since I was a kid I was fascinated by touch. The only way I could sleep was by rubbing someone's hand and sucking my thumb. Now I still rub my hands/knuckles, and brush my knuckles over my lips. I do this without thinking, whenever, wherever. I also always have my hands between my thighs when I cross my legs. Plus I was a touching freak as a kid, I had to touch everything. I still do it but I have better control - though its much harder when I go to a museum!

-Speaking of touch, I am also very weird when it comes to someone else touching me. I tense up and fixate if I feel someone brush against me. Very few people can touch or cuddle up to me without bothering me. I am trying to train myself to be less sensitive but its harder than I thought.

- Before my little 'social experiment' I was never good at conversation. I HATED small-talk. They bore me. I couldn't even fake it for longer than five minutes. However, talk to me about something more abstract and I wouldn't shut up. I don't want to say I prefer 'high-brow' conversations because it's not the case, it'd be more like...Say I was in a group and they started talking about sexual fetishes - while I understand they do it to titillate themselves and to tease and flirt, I'd try to follow along but eventually get sidetracked (and more excited) trying to decipher why fetishes even exist, or whether those formed in adolescence differ than the ones formed later (as in the ones formed due to consistent stimuli that would eventually create neural pathways in your brain (think Pavlov's dog)) and whether we can thus manipulate our fetishes, and so on. I was always more interested in the logical/theoretical/abstract than feelings and emotions.

- Currently both of my closest friends either have, or have a family member with, a "mental disorder" (think borderline personality disorder and ADD/ADHD). I have also noticed that I tend to get along better with other ADD/ADHD people than NTs. Maybe because they are all geeks as well?

- I sometimes get auditory hallucinations; usually its music. This was a lot more common when I was a kid, not so much now.

- Of the Aspie quizzes I took, all of them put me as high functioning aspie/borderline. Like on the AQ Test I scored a 34.

- I don't know how to deal with highly emotional situation. Like when a loved one was grieving my attempts at comforting felt very robotic rather than natural, since I feel like I am only doing what I think I am supposed to do (rather than doing it because of instincts.)

- I heard this is common with girls who have Aspergers; they tend to copy those who are better than them socially. I still sometimes fall into this trap and have copied siblings, friends and strangers, though not as often as before. If I love the way a girl is presenting herself to a group I end up mimicking her without thinking (though hopefully not in an obvious manner!) I've always had someone who is a social butterfly who sort of takes me under her wings for a few years before I go onto the next.

- Whenever I see something bad happen before me, I am usually the first to react and want to help. If a guy punches a girl, or there was a hit and run, I run towards it without thinking, ever since I was a little kid (my parents HATED this about me because they always thought I didn't know what to do; that is until the day I saved a life in front of them when no one else would lift a finger.)

- I am VERY clumsy and I am known for my fender benders!

Last edited by BlueMilk on 09 Feb 2013, 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Reasons Why I don't think I have Aspergers:

- I generally don't have a problem reading people's facial expressions, however I don't remember if it was because of my training in body language or if I was always good with that.

- I am not weird enough to concern my family; they thought of me as very odd but more in a bookworm/eccentric kind of way. Nothing bad enough to warrant outside attention/help.

- I am very emotional despite my robotic attempts at comforting others. I cry very easily and I laugh very easily. Man, every time I get frustrated or angry my first reaction seems to burst into tears. Its annoying.

- I've been told that I actually give a great first impression, so I know I don't appear odd to others unless they sit with me more than once (that's when I falter, its hard for me to keep it up). I tend to be very eager during the first meeting however, all wide-eyed and huge smile.

- While I love music and art, I do not think of myself as musical or artistic. I have a fascination with wanting to learn instruments (I've played the clarinet, the guitar, the trombone and attempted the piano) but I didn't obsess over them the way I do with my writing or other subjects and stop after a few weeks. I love to paint and draw but I don't have the talent (or perhaps the patience) to develop it.

- I can be spontaneous and I don't have a rigid routine that I follow. I don't get upset when things don't go as planned. Some of my favorite memories are when I do something spur of the moment. Although I do find some comfort in routine its just not necessary, and sometimes I do have the desire to break out of it.

- When in a social setting I am rarely rude or insulting; in fact I am known for being respectful and polite; when with friends its another story however!

- I have a lot of acquaintances, although there are only two people who I would consider real friends (that aren't related to me.)

- I don't have issues with words and their interpretations and I am quick to get a joke. I am a lit-whore so that might have helped. Though I do sometimes have a problem with speaking.

- I don't have a head for math. In fact I suck at math above algebra level. I love math when it comes to theory, but actually doing math and applying it? Yea no.

- No one in my family has autism or aspergers.

I think this is enough for now. You guys barely know me and already I am asking you to read so much about me to help me out. If you're still reading, thanks for your patience - and any information or insight you can give me would be more than appreciated.

By the way, even if I am NT, this site is wonderful and I feel understood just by reading what others are going through. Thank you to those who made it and are maintaining it.

Welcome to Wrong Planet. Even if you're not truly odd you're still welcome here. In the past I've tried to show how some people who were abused as children or who were suddenly dropped into one environment from a totally foreign other one could end up exhibiting aspie-like symptoms. It's not scientific, of course. It's just That "questioning" posts like yours always brings up those possibilities.

Not everybody with autism is good with math.



That doesn't always matter. Autism genes don't always express themselves, and it's possible to have mutations in your body that you didn't inherit from your parents.

Whether or not you have autism, you are welcome here!

Dear bluemilk,
I read your reasons of why you are and why you are not an aspie. From what I read I do not believe you have traditional asperger's, although you have a few aspects of asperger's I do not believe that you have it. I believe today you are OCD (obsessive compulsive), add (attention deficit disorder), and have schitzoid tendancies (due to your auditory hallucinations), these things can cause stumbling blocks in social behaviors that can seem a bit aspergery, but you are missing main components of aspergers. You are in the right place for support, I think your story is interesting. I am am aspie, facial expressions elude me, except for a few basic ones that I've learned. I don't search out friends, I'm cold emotionally even though I have emotions, meaning that I seem unemotional because I do not understand emotional situations, I am great at crises but get angry at small things such as my daily habits are altered, I have add/adhd as well, because I start many things but finish few and have a hard time concentrating or paying attention. I was a mental health counselor as a full time job, which was more like a prison gaurd, which I also was (i wasn't good at the prison guard because I couldn't figure out when I was being used) mental health counselor had aspects of counseling and prison gaurd. I also say what's on my mind and often I say inappropriate things for the situation I'm in. I've learned how to socialize by mimiking behaviors. I've also learned words well and how they work together of what they mean but I don't know sarcasm when its said. I feel alone regardless of who I'm with. I am in the higher functioning asperger's spectrum. I have a job and I'm married, but its very hard on my wife, but now that she knows, and I know what I have she understands how to interact with me. Aspergers people are said to be unemotional but they are more emotional than regular people, they just don't understand when emotions are appropriate, but if you tell an aspie that they hurt you or embarrassed you they get upset because they didn't know, but aspie's are not stupid, but quite intelligent, just that the scope of knowledge is narrow, but what they do know they know well. I am quite big and athletic but I've always been more into computers. I found that powerlifting was something I enjoyed. I could do it by myself, but around people, so I don't get lonely. I like people but only interact if I'm approached. I'm not one that likes touching or being touched but will tolerate being touched because I understand that people feel that they make connections that way. I hate it when people continuously talk to me, I like very short conversations and don't like talking about myself because then I have to be in the conversation longer. I like facts and anyone that knows me says that I tell no stories. I also use expressions to seem emotionally expressive, like no doubt instead of yes, or that sucks when story sounds bad, just as examples. My friends, who are actually my wife's friends see me as quirky but they admire me because I just say whatever comes to mind, I've been told that before by co workers even if its inappropriate. Once people were told that I had aspergers they said, yes, that's what it is. I know a lot about a little. I express myself much much better through writing than verbal. I hope that this helped you. I know that you are unable to get professional assistance but I was in the mental health field, so if you have questions I will help as much I can.

Dear bluemilk,
I read your reasons of why you are and why you are not an aspie. From what I read I do not believe you have traditional asperger's, although you have a few aspects of asperger's I do not believe that you have it. I believe today you are OCD (obsessive compulsive), add (attention deficit disorder), and have schitzoid tendancies (due to your auditory hallucinations), these things can cause stumbling blocks in social behaviors that can seem a bit aspergery, but you are missing main components of aspergers. You are in the right place for support, I think your story is interesting. I am am aspie, facial expressions elude me, except for a few basic ones that I've learned. I don't search out friends, I'm cold emotionally even though I have emotions, meaning that I seem unemotional because I do not understand emotional situations, I am great at crises but get angry at small things such as my daily habits are altered, I have add/adhd as well, because I start many things but finish few and have a hard time concentrating or paying attention. I was a mental health counselor as a full time job, which was more like a prison gaurd, which I also was (i wasn't good at the prison guard because I couldn't figure out when I was being used) mental health counselor had aspects of counseling and prison gaurd. I also say what's on my mind and often I say inappropriate things for the situation I'm in. I've learned how to socialize by mimiking behaviors. I've also learned words well and how they work together of what they mean but I don't know sarcasm when its said. I feel alone regardless of who I'm with. I am in the higher functioning asperger's spectrum. I have a job and I'm married, but its very hard on my wife, but now that she knows, and I know what I have she understands how to interact with me. Aspergers people are said to be unemotional but they are more emotional than regular people, they just don't understand when emotions are appropriate, but if you tell an aspie that they hurt you or embarrassed you they get upset because they didn't know, but aspie's are not stupid, but quite intelligent, just that the scope of knowledge is narrow, but what they do know they know well. I am quite big and athletic but I've always been more into computers. I found that powerlifting was something I enjoyed. I could do it by myself, but around people, so I don't get lonely. I like people but only interact if I'm approached. I'm not one that likes touching or being touched but will tolerate being touched because I understand that people feel that they make connections that way. I hate it when people continuously talk to me, I like very short conversations and don't like talking about myself because then I have to be in the conversation longer. I like facts and anyone that knows me says that I tell no stories. I also use expressions to seem emotionally expressive, like no doubt instead of yes, or that sucks when story sounds bad, just as examples. My friends, who are actually my wife's friends see me as quirky but they admire me because I just say whatever comes to mind, I've been told that before by co workers even if its inappropriate. Once people were told that I had aspergers they said, yes, that's what it is. I know a lot about a little. I express myself much much better through writing than verbal. I hope that this helped you. I know that you are unable to get professional assistance but I was in the mental health field, so if you have questions I will help as much I can.

I am monotone when I speak, which some say is relaxing/soothing, while others say expressionless and unemotional. Women that I've dated find my cold emotional affect intriguing and that I'm tough during crises but they hate it because I don't connect emotionally and don't seem loving because I'm not inherently emotional.

Thanks guys for the warm welcome! And for the in-depth read on my problems. I do feel welcomed and it is a great place.

And Jammin, thank you for the assistance and offer as well. I am the same way with preferring writing over reading. For most of my childhood and even college years my closest friends* were online because I was able to express myself better in writing. Even last year, when I finally started dating after a long hiatus, I felt incredibly uncomfortable whenever I tried to open up about anything personal; eventually I wrote a letter to finally describe what it is that I am so anxious about but I didn't send it. Eventually I broke it off after a few dates just because I couldn't stand being so anxious. He would say all those romantic things like 'I miss you' or 'you looked like a princess' and all I could think about was 'are you serious?' or 'what emotional response is he expecting from me?' I do NOT deal well with emotions or being vulnerable. As a kid I always preferred writing over speaking.

Culturally I grew up in a place that puts a lot of emphasis on social interactions and group-identity (as opposed to the Occidental/Western beliefs of individuality) so perhaps my 'oddness' made me think I am a HFASP when in truth I am just the odd fish out.

I never thought of myself as OCD or ADD admittedly; I have a lot better focus than my friend who has ADHD as I'm the one that tends to reel her back onto the topic of conversation if she doesn't take her pills; although you're right, I never finish my projects. Jammin, our similarities are uncanny however, which is why I thought I might be high-functioning. Everything you said is true with me too: the touching, the preference to writing, the irregular emotional responses, needing to be alone, etc. And when I read the lists for girls with Aspie, that's when it all started to make sense.

Perhaps I am just odd and prefer the company of other non-typical people who I can finally understand. Thanks again, guys!

(*= When I say friends, I mean more like the people I talk to or seek me out. I never 'bonded' fully with a person. Never had a best friend (that girl didn't count and we stopped being friends two years later. Only went out with her a handful of times and she was obviously using me.) The social butterflies that take me in? I flit from one to the next after a few years, they seem to find me and lock onto me. I even remember overhearing one of them telling some other random girl I just met to 'befriend me' because I am very shy or awkward! I am NOT shy! It is not fear that drives my apathy. The only friends that I currently can handle is the girl with ADHD and the girl who has mental disorders in her family. I think its because we are all very accepting of unusual quirks.)

Last edited by BlueMilk on 09 Feb 2013, 2:13 am, edited 6 times in total.

Oh this is fascinating. I have been reading a few theories about Aspergers as well; despite the alterations in the amygdala part of the brain that show similar signs of a child who went through abuse, some people speculate another thing that really struck me. Let me copy-paste since I don't want to steal his words or ideas:

wedrifid from the website Lesswrong:
"AS is innate but very little in the human brain is unchangeable. If you spend enough time playing the the violin you can reliably and permanently alter the amount of the brain that is dedicated to fine motor control of the fingertips. The same applies to social processing. Paraphrasing Tony Attwood here, and emphasizing that this doesn't apply to everyone, many intelligent people with Aspergers' find that they can develop all the 'normal' social behaviors over time. He estimates that in a typical such case the development is just pushed back to 10 years behind what it would be for a neurotypical individual of the same intelligence. Note that the 10 year figure is the same figure given by experts on expertise. You can become an expert in anything with 10 years of practice. Including acting 'normal'.

Obviously there are more serious difficulties that can come with AS and not all of these are overcome by training."

This is what I believe I have been doing unintentionally; and it is true, I do feel like I am 10 years behind everyone else because it is such a struggle to get to where they are. It takes so much power and brain processing; if I focus on body language its hard to listen to their conversation (so I become slow in responding.) Its getting easier but I've been at this for nearly four years now so yes, it took a lot of work to just try and appear 'normal', whatever normal really means.

(Also please excuse my grammar; while I am fluent in English I grew up bilingual and still have problems with it. I blame my lack of math skills.)

Bluemilk, my friend, we would be friends in real life. I expect nothing, I only enjoy presence, that means in writing as well. with the more things you wrote, I believe that you are ocd, add but not adhd, I also think you have very high functioning asperger's, since you do have enough aspects, now that I've heard your clarification via my post. You sound like an amazing person. I understand what you are saying about western culture defining individuals as important, which is a double edged sword, both good and bad because it creates essentially two groups and a sub group, the two main groups are those that are celebrated and those who celebrate, the sub group are those who are lost and rely on assistance from others to get them through. Cultures that are group is the greater good creates community, low crime and strong work ethic, but doesn't give the ability to achieve greatness, so there are positives and negatives for both.
My wife always wants me to show her how I feel about her, and anytime I've tried its the wrong timing (i do what she's told me what she wants, or read books on the subject, so its robotic, not fluid), so I get shot down for one reason or another. I've always been told that I've been cold emotionally I'm relationships. My father used to yell at me and I wouldn't have an emotional response, he said I had "dead eyes" like I was a "robot". I've always been seen as unique and interesting because I say what's on my mind even when its inappropriate timing. The rest you already know. I hope we can become friends and keep in touch. Thank you Bluemilk.
I would also like to learn more about your culture.

Jammin Jim

Hello Bluemilk... I haven't been here a very long time, but it sounds like this could be a good place for you. I read through your lists of why and why not and it feels very much like you are some where 'on the spectrum'. There is something called the Broad Autism Phenotype, and it seems like you probably fall somewhere within it's sphere. there's been very little study on autism is women, and autism manifests differently in everyone who is affected...there's a saying "If you've met one person with Asperger's, you've met one person with Aspergers." Everyone on the autism spectrum is quite different in detail, but all of us have some social differences not shared by the great majority of the population...all of have (or have had when we were young) communication issues that were marked- from being non-verbal to hyperverbal little professors, In any event, we dont develop at the same rate or in the common manner of NT's.

I really like the Tony Atwood theory of the ten years to learn anything...most of us feel 'immature' somehow. I liken it to the tortoise and the hare - we're often late bloomers, if we bloom at all. Sometimes we learn how to communicate NT style - I think of it as a unnatural foreign language and the learning is by immersion, trial and error - and then we get better, or even good at it - people treat us as normal and for the most part, many of sort or are - but errors in translation still occur - sometimes serious.
Dont worry about the music thing too much...odd perceptual events are common on the spectrum - synesthesia and other things 'happen'.

Your assertion of being an a-romantic person - your analytical approach to relationships...are all typical Aspie traits.

I'd recommend you watch the lectures on youtube by Rudy Simone (author of Aspergirls)...I found her insights helpful.

Last edited by BornThisWay on 12 Feb 2013, 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hi everyone, I haven't been diagnosed but I truly believe I have aspergers. I score 34 on the test and got aspie 168/200 and neurotypical 24/200. Only just discover 4 days ago and it a huge relief knowing why I'm different. Now I've found wrong planet and reading about everyone I now feel normal I finally fit somewhere. Not terrible at maths but very interested in it I also discovered I've got dyscalcula, which explains so very much why I couldn't add or do simple times table and subtractions. I can't read peoples faces at all (it's very frustrating) and can't control/show emotions well. I say the wrong thing and always come across rude and unsympathetic. My brain is disconnected from my emotions. If some one asks me how I am I truly don't know, I need to think about my body language, if there's a smile or frown on my face say good because I really can't understand why I don't know what I'm feeling. Other people need to tell me if I'm sad, or stressed or any other emotion. I CAN'T TELL!.

I've always faked emotions growing up, I mimicked other people so I could try to fit in but then I'd have a weird expression on my face and people did not want to be around me. Or I'd say the wrong thing. People do not want to be friends with me because I'm different. I can't do small talk I dispise it, it grates on my nerves, kill small talk and get to in depth conversations, then I can participate. I had to learn to deal with no help growing up and my whole life has been frustrating. I'm 27 (female) and I believe my nephew has aspergers (even before I thought I had it). I would came out and say it to his parents and run for the hills because they wont take it well. But my mum and sister who are NT's think I shouldn't say anything. Then I thought I'd go to his teacher (year 1) and tell her without his parent's knowing. What is the right way to do this because I really don't know?

Sorry If I haven't contributed to the discussion but you have all helped a lot, the more I read about aspergers the more obsessed I'm getting. This is the most I have EVER talked about my self EVER! Wow it's very alien to me to talk about my self, I usually shut up and listen to boring people (NT's).

Now I know aspie's are so much more interesting.
I love aspie's (not sure if I love or like or am confused still working on my emotions).

Your case seems very complicated and detailed. This is good, it means you are already very self-aware. I think there is actually a high chance you do have it. We often don't know what we don't know, or we think we are good at things and then get really surprised when we actually aren't.

You say you don't have much trouble reading facial expressions/ body language. But what if you actually do have trouble and don't realize it? That was the case for me, actually. I never connected with people very deeply and all my life didn't seem to make friends "normally", but because I was fairly emotional and a very thoughtful internal processor, I thought of myself as being quite empathetic and such... when really, I was more confused than anything and most of my social interaction was forced and fake - a skill to be practiced. I really didn't realize how I was different from neurotypicals in some major areas, because I didn't know what it was like to be a neurotypical person. I still can never know what it is like to not be me.

Try taking the "Mind in the Eyes" test online. It's fun and simple and you may surprise yourself one way or the other. By the time I did it, I was already pretty convinced I had Asperger's, but then, while taking the test I kept thinking to myself.. "Oh, this is too easy, I think I'm going to come out having done really well, maybe I'm not an aspie." But no. No, I did not do well on it.

I also did an EQ test. No, it does not measure "how nice are you?" or "how much do you care about your family and close friends?". It's about how you manage and express emotions, how aware you are of your emotions, and how skilled you are at determining the intentions of other people, etc. Be honest with yourself, don't try and be an "ideal you", and the results speak for themselves.

I also strongly recommend reading Aspergirls by Rudy Simone. It gives examples of how Asperger's shows up differently in women and more "real-life" stories about actual females with Asperger's. When reading lists of symptoms in Wikipedia or other information pages, it's very easy to dissociate from the information. Your mind might fill in the blanks with absurd examples that don't really seem like you at all. So try and read some real-life examples, especially about girls.