Page 4 of 4 [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Prometheus18
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,866

06 Sep 2018, 12:50 pm

Chronos wrote:
Please state the definition of empirical you are using.


By "empirical", in the original passage, I meant "existing as an object in the physical world".

Chronos wrote:
That an infinitesimally small thickness does not actually exist in a discrete universe is irrelevent because the interval x does and contains all of the information needed to construct outputs as if it did.


I entirely agree; and of course, this is why physics is "useful" in the vulgar sense and mathematics is only "useful" in virtue of its applications to physics or other scientific fields. It doesn't change the fact that there is nothing we can point to in the physical world which has the property of "triangularity" as part of its nature. From what you're saying, and I think you're right, we "willingly suspend disbelief" in the "atriangularity" of the object depicted on the sheet of paper in order to derive "useful" conclusions about it. Of course, this is true, and it has its virtues, but that doesn't change the fact that the object depicted on the sheet of paper is, as it were, a shadow of the subject in question - that the triangle itself is a conceptual or mental entity.

Chronos wrote:
Why claim a theoretical right triangle that only exists mathematically is more valid of a right triangle than a physical triangle, within which it's boundaries exists a right triangle which also satisfies the conditions of a theoretical triangle?


For the sake of intellectual and linguistic rigour. You mentioned the field of logic, and this is the same reason why in logic we distinguish between words and the things they represent. For instance, a logician will tell you that the following sentence is valid:

Quote:
"London" has six letters.


While the next sentence is invalid:

Quote:
London has six letters.


A word, such as "London", may or may not have any given number of letters; a city cannot be said to have any number of letters as letters and cities are conceptually incompatible. Of course the practise is irrelevant for most purposes and the average man, in going about his business, will readily interchange the two without a second thought - and that's fine, because everyone knows what he means when he chooses the stricly incorrect alternative. In science, however, greater rigour is called for.

Chronos wrote:
Are you an adherent to the notion of absolute truth?


Yes, though I don't claim to know what it is on most subjects.

RE Richard Smullyan, I know very roughly who he is and have been meaning since seeing his obituary to read some of his books, but haven't had time so far.

As far as piracy is concerned, I reject it as unethical, though as far as unethical acts go, it seems to me a moderately trivial one.



Chronos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,698

06 Sep 2018, 1:35 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Please state the definition of empirical you are using.


By "empirical", in the original passage, I meant "existing as an object in the physical world".

Chronos wrote:
That an infinitesimally small thickness does not actually exist in a discrete universe is irrelevent because the interval x does and contains all of the information needed to construct outputs as if it did.


I entirely agree; and of course, this is why physics is "useful" in the vulgar sense and mathematics is only "useful" in virtue of its applications to physics or other scientific fields. It doesn't change the fact that there is nothing we can point to in the physical world which has the property of "triangularity" as part of its nature. From what you're saying, and I think you're right, we "willingly suspend disbelief" in the "atriangularity" of the object depicted on the sheet of paper in order to derive "useful" conclusions about it. Of course, this is true, and it has its virtues, but that doesn't change the fact that the object depicted on the sheet of paper is, as it were, a shadow of the subject in question - that the triangle itself is a conceptual or mental entity.

Chronos wrote:
Why claim a theoretical right triangle that only exists mathematically is more valid of a right triangle than a physical triangle, within which it's boundaries exists a right triangle which also satisfies the conditions of a theoretical triangle?


For the sake of intellectual and linguistic rigour. You mentioned the field of logic, and this is the same reason why in logic we distinguish between words and the things they represent. For instance, a logician will tell you that the following sentence is valid:

Quote:
"London" has six letters.


While the next sentence is invalid:

Quote:
London has six letters.


A word, such as "London", may or may not have any given number of letters; a city cannot be said to have any number of letters as letters and cities are conceptually incompatible. Of course the practise is irrelevant for most purposes and the average man, in going about his business, will readily interchange the two without a second thought - and that's fine, because everyone knows what he means when he chooses the stricly incorrect alternative. In science, however, greater rigour is called for.

Chronos wrote:
Are you an adherent to the notion of absolute truth?


Yes, though I don't claim to know what it is on most subjects.

RE Richard Smullyan, I know very roughly who he is and have been meaning since seeing his obituary to read some of his books, but haven't had time so far.

As far as piracy is concerned, I reject it as unethical, though as far as unethical acts go, it seems to me a moderately trivial one.


In that case, you can borrow the book in electronic form (I am assuming legally) from Open Library

You might find some of the first few puzzles trivial but there are varying levels of complexity, with puzzles most would find difficult in the later pages of the book.



Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,618
Location: New York City (Queens)

03 Jun 2019, 6:45 pm

To Prometheus18: I am curious about your username. If you feel inclined to tell us about it, what does the ancient Greek Titan Prometheus mean to you personally?


_________________
- Finally diagnosed with ASD in May 2019, after having suspected it for over ten years, and after having deeply explored the autism community for over one year while waiting for and obtaining diagnosis.
- In longterm relationship with boyfriend who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome in 2001.
- Long history of participation in various oddball subcultures.
- My "Getting to know each other" thread: Hello from NYC.


Prometheus18
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,866

04 Jun 2019, 3:47 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
To Prometheus18: I am curious about your username. If you feel inclined to tell us about it, what does the ancient Greek Titan Prometheus mean to you personally?

I offer people knowledge in the form of disabusing them of their illusions about the world - and am shunned for it. I'm also fascinated by the number nine and multiples thereof.



Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,618
Location: New York City (Queens)

05 Jun 2019, 3:41 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
To Prometheus18: I am curious about your username. If you feel inclined to tell us about it, what does the ancient Greek Titan Prometheus mean to you personally?

I offer people knowledge in the form of disabusing them of their illusions about the world - and am shunned for it. I'm also fascinated by the number nine and multiples thereof.

I was curious because, even before I came to Wrong Planet, I had come to see the Prometheus myths as a metaphor for the more highly talented autistic people generally: able to give a lot of new knowledge to the world, but, all too often, prevented from doing so by living in a world that is not autistic-friendly.


_________________
- Finally diagnosed with ASD in May 2019, after having suspected it for over ten years, and after having deeply explored the autism community for over one year while waiting for and obtaining diagnosis.
- In longterm relationship with boyfriend who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome in 2001.
- Long history of participation in various oddball subcultures.
- My "Getting to know each other" thread: Hello from NYC.


Borromeo
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 1 Jun 2019
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Posts: 312

11 Jun 2019, 9:17 pm

You sound like a legitimately cool guy. 8)

I don't believe in the notion of absolute truth, though. I believe in absolute truth and sew with notions. :D