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ChorisOnoma
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08 Oct 2016, 6:32 am

Adamantium wrote:
But there is nothing to compel members to respect such an instruction. Likewise, there is nothing compelling who starts a spirituality/religion topic in PPR to respond to provocative replies.

The only place where only supportive comments are allowed is The Haven. That might be a very appropriate place for the topic you describe as religion and spiritual practices are often used to help people through tough times or enhance people's state of mind. Congregating to share experience, strength and hope sounds just right for the Haven.
Yes. It seems that it would be a good fit. I put it in the In-depth Forum, but it might get a little more traffic if I put it in Haven.
Skilpadde wrote:
Uhm yeah you can absolutely avoid debates. If I ever wanna talk about anything, I just want a nice conversation much like OP said, and talk about it, speculate about it and have fun and get excited about the topic. I have no interest in debates whatsoever, and if someone tries to make it one, I'll start ignoring them TBH and nope out of it. I don't have the patience for stuff like that, it's not my thing at all. I have nothing to say beyond what I think of it. Repeating my position over and over isn't for me.
I agree, Skilpadde - In my opinion, debates are rarely, if ever, conducive to topics of the actual spiritual/philosophical conversations. As we are only human, it can often be hard for us on the Spectrum to "be our own mungooses" when stuff gets heated and perhaps personal in a negative way. On the one hand, we need to find ways to step away in those cases, on the other hand, for those of us who might not yet have those ways in place, it would be good to have a place where we do not have to employ those strategies - having "defensive measures" in place is not conducive to openness and listening, and spirituality is very much about beinf vulnerable, open and listening.

Skilpadde wrote:
It's my opinion that we really need a part of the forum to be about just talking about stuff, with much the same rules as the Haven but without having to feel blue for posting there. For when you just wanna talk about something.
Just like I posted that in site suggestions the other day.
I agree, again. I have gleaned from elsewhere that this might be difficult to achieve.
So... is it possible to move my Topic Religion/Spirituality - The Good Conversation to the Haven?


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naturalplastic
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08 Oct 2016, 7:12 am

Am closer to the atheists than to the religious on WP in how I think, but even I found it annoying (even offensive) when the "strident atheists" (a gang on PPR who actually called themselves that) would pounce on anyone who would float a theological question on PPR by informing the person that "its all bs anyway" (as if the person didn't already know that there are believers and nonbelievers).

So its tempting to think that we should have a separate subforum just for folks to talk about religious/spiritual stuff without fear of the atheist bullying. Trouble is that such a subforum (like real life) would probably just degenerate into bickering between folks of differing religious beliefs: Christians vs New Agers, and Evangelical Protestants vs other Christians, everyone against muslims, everyone against Jews, and Jews against Jews (there was frequent pugilism on PPR between a certain high profile atheist Jew, and a certain high profile Jew-for-Jesus, a couple of years back).



ChorisOnoma
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08 Oct 2016, 8:10 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Am closer to the atheists than to the religious on WP in how I think, but even I found it annoying (even offensive) when the "strident atheists" (a gang on PPR who actually called themselves that) would pounce on anyone who would float a theological question on PPR by informing the person that "its all bs anyway" (as if the person didn't already know that there are believers and nonbelievers).

So its tempting to think that we should have a separate subforum just for folks to talk about religious/spiritual stuff without fear of the atheist bullying. Trouble is that such a subforum (like real life) would probably just degenerate into bickering between folks of differing religious beliefs: Christians vs New Agers, and Evangelical Protestants vs other Christians, everyone against muslims, everyone against Jews, and Jews against Jews (there was frequent pugilism on PPR between a certain high profile atheist Jew, and a certain high profile Jew-for-Jesus, a couple of years back).

I think any possible bickering and pugilism in such a sub-forum is highly dependent on the rules set up and applied in such a forum. If a thread were placed in The Haven it would be subject to the rules set up for The Haven.


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dcj123
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08 Oct 2016, 11:10 am

Adamantium wrote:
TheAP wrote:
Well, you could put in the thread title or the OP that you don't want this to be a debate.


But there is nothing to compel members to respect such an instruction. Likewise, there is nothing compelling someone who starts a spirituality/religion topic in PPR to respond to provocative replies.


Ah but it does in the haven, the written rules at this time,

Rule wrote:
The Haven is protected more than any other forum on this site, so if someone is in distress and posts there it is for help and support from other members, not to debate with him/her about their religion or atheism. Trying to persuade an atheist to pray to God or Jesus for support is not appropriate in the Haven, similarly attacking a believers religious views in the Haven is not appropriate either.


That last part protects religion in the haven until of course you modify it and make it political correct which you will at some point.

ChorisOnoma wrote:
Skilpadde wrote:
It's my opinion that we really need a part of the forum to be about just talking about stuff, with much the same rules as the Haven but without having to feel blue for posting there. For when you just wanna talk about something.
Just like I posted that in site suggestions the other day.
I agree, again. I have gleaned from elsewhere that this might be difficult to achieve.
So... is it possible to move my Topic Religion/Spirituality - The Good Conversation to the Haven?


Well I have officially stirred the pot it seems with my haven thread but I have strong beliefs with this topic so I don't mind the possible consequences. I encourage religion in the haven as per the rules but the problem is mods don't want to have to think about what can and cannot be said in the haven with regards to religion. It makes their job ten times more difficult and if they have some form of autism, probably even harder. To be fair and balanced they need to define a clear line, the mature answer with regards to the above rules would be to offer religious support where welcome and respect where its not.

I can understand why you would want this cut and dry but its not by the rules own admission. I for one am happy at this point with whatever happens to me because I have created a safe place with regards to religion and I am in the right with regards to the rules.



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12 Oct 2016, 11:23 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
So its tempting to think that we should have a separate subforum just for folks to talk about religious/spiritual stuff without fear of the atheist bullying. Trouble is that such a subforum (like real life) would probably just degenerate into bickering between folks of differing religious beliefs: Christians vs New Agers, and Evangelical Protestants vs other Christians, everyone against muslims, everyone against Jews, and Jews against Jews (there was frequent pugilism on PPR between a certain high profile atheist Jew, and a certain high profile Jew-for-Jesus, a couple of years back).


Any new forums would need to have rules that make sense for them and I also think naming the new folders the right way will have significant impact in how they're used and what kinds of rules people will accept. When I put a new version of my proposal from the PMM thread up on site recommendations (p. 45) I had a few suggested names for the separate P,P and R folders; for the religion folder I chose 'Autism, Faith, and Religious Life'. With that title I think we'd have a strong argument for keeping the main flow of conversation toward how aspies and auties cope with their faith, the communities and people involved, etc.. Similarly too much squabbling over specifics of scripture or interpretations wouldn't be as relevant in that context.


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