Making it Better: The future of WP

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I firmly believe that the problem is often in the tone of the post and not alwaysthe main message. Using "in my opinion", "I see it differently," "that's one way of looking at it but....." Not negating someone elses point of view but validating their right to differ and offering an alternative POV promotes friendly discussion rather than deteriorating into a free for all.

Unfortunately, prefacing a character attack with "In my opinion", isn't going to mitigate the incidents of bullying.
It may make it easier for personal attacks to fly under the radar, and actually be excused.
That would compound the problem and make moderation more difficult.

People could say "In my opinion, you're a (personal attack of character)", and then they think it's acceptable. Others would likely defend them, saying "it was their opinion!!" without noticing the attack itself was against our rules. The victim's feelings would be dismissed, for whinging about another member's "opinion". Then, we would have debates about freedom of speech and censorship ... when the real topic should be "personal attacks" and personal accountability.

Most members who are guilty of hurling personal attacks already pad their wording so they'll seem innocent. They like to pretend they didn't mean it, or that their words are taken out of context. Adding an additional buffer of "It's my opinion" to a personal attack will only strengthen their sense of entitlement.

The bottom line is that we have to stop insulting other people, and pretending we have a right to voice insulting "opinions" about other members.

"In my opinion" is great when two people are having an open and objective debate about a topic, but not when someone wants to attack another person or break the rules using belittling language.

That's the problem we are trying to address.

Calling someone a flea ridden mangy dog who should be avoided at all cost and should be forced off the forum is just disagreeing I guess

Unless you say it to a left leaning person, but it’s ok to do to a non leftist, mean imagine if say Pepe called a woman here a nasty std ridden slut who should be avoided he’d be banned, and have his post deleted. I think what’s worse is the modding is selective I’d be all for no mods no rules so I can tell certain people what they are.
Wp is no different then middle school.

Unfortunately, prefacing a character attack with "In my opinion", isn't going to mitigate the incidents of bullying.
It may make it easier for personal attacks to fly under the radar, and actually be excused.
That would compound the problem and make moderation more difficult.

People could say "In my opinion, you're a (personal attack of character)", and then they think it's acceptable. Others would likely defend them, saying "it was their opinion!!" without noticing the attack itself was against our rules. The victim's feelings would be dismissed, for whinging about another member's "opinion". Then, we would have debates about freedom of speech and censorship ... when the real topic should be "personal attacks" and personal accountability.

Most members who are guilty of hurling personal attacks already pad their wording so they'll seem innocent. They like to pretend they didn't mean it, or that their words are taken out of context. Adding an additional buffer of "It's my opinion" to a personal attack will only strengthen their sense of entitlement.

The bottom line is that we have to stop insulting other people, and pretending we have a right to voice insulting "opinions" about other members.

"In my opinion" is great when two people are having an open and objective debate about a topic, but not when someone wants to attack another person or break the rules using belittling language.

That's the problem we are trying to address.

Ok so far

-It's up to the new mod team to make the future of WP better.

-The rules need to be enforced consistently and fairly, including people who are friendly with the team, no exceptions.... I suggest a middle ground between the extremes of those sensitized and those hardened by lifes experiences.

Neither should take precedence over the other. Both are a valid response to the environment.

-All forms of communication (including what the neurotypical community would call bluntness) should be seen as normal.

Some good progress, I believe we will need more for positive change to be sustainable, other solutions that dont involve software changes?

For self moderation: Everyone needs to familiarize themselves with the rules, especially veterans, any thoughts?

Have there been any suggestions or solutions since this point, I've read the pages but I may have missed something?

Regarding application of rules:

"I suggest a middle ground between the extremes of those sensitized and those hardened by lifes experiences.

Neither should take precedence over the other. Both are a valid response to the environment."
Thoughts?

That sounds reasonable, but begs the question if it's reasonable to expect more hardened individuals to put up with more excrement simply because of being as they are, and on the flip side if it's reasonable to lower the threshold for more sensitive people for the same reason. Even a strong person has their limit, and when nearing that limit being told "but you're tough and you can take it" does not seem like it would be helpful.

Calling someone a flea ridden mangy dog who should be avoided at all cost and should be forced off the forum is just disagreeing I guess

There is the forgotten middle group, quite symptomatic of the climate today I suppose, what about them, why should those of us sensitized or hardened take precedence because we are shouting louder?

I'm confused about the topic here. Are we still talking about how to help WP or is that passé?

I wish some MORE would return. Show that they’re not intimidated by the schmucks in our midst.
The majority of the membership would take them over all the people whose only motivation is to bully and show off their superiority.

That’s my whole point, really. The Amiable Ones should wield their strength in numbers.

I agree. Unfortunately that's a moderation issue, and not really something that members can fix on their own. It's why WP is losing members, and it's why this thread was created. I've been trying to highlight the areas where our moderation needs to be more consistent to improve the experience for all members while respecting Alex's rules.

Far too many good people are lost and disillusioned right now, and it doesn't need to be this way.

Well, that is of course also an aspect. I guess what I'm really asking is how wide is this middle ground. I realise it's a difficult question to give a tangible answer to, so maybe I'm just an aspie looking for hard points of reference where none is to be found.