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funeralxempire
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22 Aug 2020, 12:43 am

Brictoria wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
Yet, these feuds and petty grudges created on political grounds have been spilling all over the forum, including the Haven and the rest of us can't use it for its intended purpose without every other thread being derailed into endless, repetitive and violent arguments and downright harassment (some people were indeed threatened with physical violence). It's enough to disagree with someone on non-political issues to be called a snowflake, a Nazi or even a racist.


I think the term Nazi should be added to the derogatory list. Sure some people have expressed white nationalist sympathies consciously or not


To some on this site, expressing the opinion that all people should be treated equally is interpreted as "white supremecy", with accusations of "racism" and "white supremecy" against the person who posted that "radical" thought.


That's a dishonest interpretation. It's the attitude that ongoing systemic racism doesn't actually exist and therefore it's all their own fault that gets your opinions called racist Bric.


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22 Aug 2020, 12:46 am

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22 Aug 2020, 12:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s a very extreme term—like Nazi is a very extreme term.

Trump is a jerk....but I doubt that he’s a white supremacist and a Nazi.

It’s obvious he doesn’t care for democratic institutions.


If someone calls "you" a Nazi,
And "you" are offended by being called a Nazi,
And yet they persist in saying "you" are a Nazi,
While there is no evidence that "you" are a Nazi,
The intent is to offend. 8)

If someone calls "you" a Racist,
And "you" are offended by being called a Racist,
And yet they persist in saying "you" are a Racist,
While there is no evidence that "you" are a Racist,
The intent is to offend. 8)

I can go on for hours with this. :mrgreen:



funeralxempire
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22 Aug 2020, 12:52 am

Pepe wrote:
If someone calls "you" a Racist,
And "you" are offended by being called a Racist,
And yet they persist in saying "you" are a Racist,
While there is no evidence that "you" are a Racist,
The intent is to offend. 8)


However, if someone calls a poster racist because they insist on expressing racist opinions and gaslighting everyone when called on it, they're still a racist but now also a dishonest bully (at least when they attempt to use the mods as a weapon against people who have noticed how their posts read). Not agreeing that one is racist doesn't automatically mean that one isn't racist. Not self-identifying as a white supremacist or western chauvinist doesn't inherently disqualify one from counting (those two are largely synonymous but splitting hairs isn't actually a defence if it passes the duck test).


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“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
The core principle of conservatism is "Rules protect, but do not bind me. They bind, but do not protect you."


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22 Aug 2020, 12:53 am

Feyokien wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
Yet, these feuds and petty grudges created on political grounds have been spilling all over the forum, including the Haven and the rest of us can't use it for its intended purpose without every other thread being derailed into endless, repetitive and violent arguments and downright harassment (some people were indeed threatened with physical violence). It's enough to disagree with someone on non-political issues to be called a snowflake, a Nazi or even a racist.


I think the term Nazi should be added to the derogatory list. Sure some people have expressed white nationalist sympathies consciously or not, but no one here is spouting off Nazi rhetoric. The term has very specific historic context that no one here supports. Obviously is an actual Nazi shows up in their full infamy than yeah.

BenderRodriguez wrote:
There has also been a serious problem with the way very young people and those lower functioning are being treated, which included various forms of invalidation, insults and being told to their faces that their opinions and experiences don't matter due to their age or level of impairment.


Agreed. The mean age of WP users seems to have gone up since I took a break back in 2017.


I agree, Neo-Nazi or alt-right would be more appropriate terms. And not to be a snowflake, but us Europeans tend to take the word very seriously and some scars haven't healed yet, many of us visited Auschwitz and have been told first-hand about what our parents or grandparents went through and what it took to rebuild our countries from the ground up. I'm not comfortable with people trivialising these tragedies by throwing the word around so casually.

Yes, activity, in general, decreased dramatically, especially on autism-related issues and so did civility. There have been some "territorial" attitudes too and young ones and new users aren't welcomed in a particularly warm manner.


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22 Aug 2020, 12:56 am

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
alex wrote:
Intolerance of bigots is not "bigotry." It's literally the opposite of bigotry. This is a hate free community and bigotry won't be tolerated.

If someone expresses white supremacist ideals, they're a white supremacist. That isn't a personal attack. Their beliefs are literally that they're better than other people.

I wouldn't feel attacked if someone called me a white supremacist because I'm not one and it would be absurd to say that to me. I'd just say "you're incorrect."


I agree with everything you have written but is it an attack to call someone who voted for Trump a White Supremacist? or someone who is on the right ?

Obviously finish your tinkering first before answering :lol:


Once again, the intention is also relevant.

Is the false statement said through ignorance,
Or malice?



Brictoria
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22 Aug 2020, 12:57 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
Yet, these feuds and petty grudges created on political grounds have been spilling all over the forum, including the Haven and the rest of us can't use it for its intended purpose without every other thread being derailed into endless, repetitive and violent arguments and downright harassment (some people were indeed threatened with physical violence). It's enough to disagree with someone on non-political issues to be called a snowflake, a Nazi or even a racist.


I think the term Nazi should be added to the derogatory list. Sure some people have expressed white nationalist sympathies consciously or not


To some on this site, expressing the opinion that all people should be treated equally is interpreted as "white supremecy", with accusations of "racism" and "white supremecy" against the person who posted that "radical" thought.


That's a dishonest interpretation. It's the attitude that ongoing systemic racism doesn't actually exist and therefore it's all their own fault that gets your opinions called racist Bric.


No, it's an honest observation.

There is a difference between responding to the opinions presented (which may be disagreed with) and explaining how they are interpreted by a member as racist, as opposed to calling the person who presents them racist\white supremecist with no explanation\justification.



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22 Aug 2020, 1:01 am

funeralxempire wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
alex wrote:
the moderators are doing their best to make the community positive. I don't know the context of what happened with you league girl. You'd have to appeal to them if you have an issue with it. But racism is pretty common in america. most people have done racist things at some point in their lives with or without realizing it.


If racism is that common, then I hope it can become a non-issue unless clearly racist or inappropriate comments are made.

Going out of one's way to call another person racist is hurtful, especially when it's meant to demean the person's character. If the person was truly racist, and there was evidence to support the claim, I'd assume they would have been banned by the moderators long ago.


I wish your opinion was the reality but the fact of the matter is that casual racism (soft white supremacism if you prefer) is common and woven into the fabric of western society. I wouldn't want someone warned for posting that they don't think indigenous Americans or black people haven't contributed to building our society because it's likely what they were taught in school but I find it appalling for someone referring to that attitude as racist to receive any punishment whatsoever because all they've done is called that attitude what it is.

Since this community exists to support a community where eccentric ideas are more common than average I wouldn't want posters banned for expressing ideas that are outside of the mainstream, even if they're moderately offensive. That said, we should still be entitled to express objective truths even if they are inconvenient or have the potential to ruffle feathers. Having one's opinion labelled as racist by another poster for expressing a racist view shouldn't ever warrant a warning, since when was speaking the truth punishable? Since when was this community opposed to the truth being spoken? Especially in PPR where a lot of leeway is (and should be) given to all sides.

If the official stance is that racism isn't tolerated than we need to work to ensure that's actually the truth. We can't claim we don't if we actually do. (For that matter, considering how common and widespread casual racism is, perhaps we should take a moment to reflect that we might need to be officially tolerant of it to a degree so that we don't end up like my high school's anti-bullying position which was officially to not tolerate it but to basically refuse to record or acknowledge it so that officially it didn't happen even on days where someone left in an ambulance. Being officially tolerant of it doesn't mean as a community tolerating it, it just means that posters don't receive official sanction, they just have to deal with having other posters criticize their views.)

People who espouse 'soft white supremacist' views often like to insist that only card-carrying Nazis count, but that's dishonestly redefining the term so that they don't have to reflect on the positions they openly espouse. Kowtowing to political correctness because some posters might have their feelings hurt doesn't seem reasonable, especially when racism is an issue that directly impacts this community. PoC are less likely to be diagnosed, less likely to receive support and less likely to have pursuing help covered by insurance. How can we be genuinely welcoming when there's a handful of posters who peddle in racist stereotypes on a daily basis?

Yes, that fixation on posting a nasty news story involving black offenders that a few posters have is what I'm talking about; especially when they use those stories to reinforce their stereotypes that allow them to conclude any issues those communities face are entirely their own fault and not at all connected to ongoing systemic discrimination.

No, that stuff doesn't warrant a warning, but it does warrant allowing posters to call it what it is.


I contributed significantly to the thread about racism in Canada, discussing systemic prejudice and racism toward the black and indigenous population. I have posted in support of BLM since the day George Floyd was murdered. I have never posted a "soft" racist comment on this site, and conversely I have always promoted liberal ideology from gay rights, to trans-rights, to antiracism, equality, egalitarianism, peace, and protest.

I am unsure how or why you ever implied that I am a racist, a soft racist, or any term of that nature. Likewise, I was mocked for taking a mental health break related to sexual violence. You specifically said that it was more important to pick your nose than to show any concern for my mental health. This was in The Haven when you ridiculed me for having a "memorial thread" which, incidentally, I neither began nor contributed toward.

I support your statements against racism, but please realise I am not racist and I will not be characterised as such on an international, public forum. Nor will I be called a coddled white supremacist when you have no idea who I am, and you admit that you have never even read my posts.


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22 Aug 2020, 1:06 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
If someone calls "you" a Racist,
And "you" are offended by being called a Racist,
And yet they persist in saying "you" are a Racist,
While there is no evidence that "you" are a Racist,
The intent is to offend. 8)


However, if someone calls a poster racist because they insist on expressing racist opinions and gaslighting everyone when called on it, they're still a racist but now also a dishonest bully (at least when they attempt to use the mods as a weapon against people who have noticed how their posts read). Not agreeing that one is racist doesn't automatically mean that one isn't racist. Not self-identifying as a white supremacist or western chauvinist doesn't inherently disqualify one from counting (those two are largely synonymous but splitting hairs isn't actually a defence if it passes the duck test).

The more invested in one side of a discussion a person gets, the more they feel they are being "attacked" when someone challenges their beliefs.

Just because a person has a different opinion on the topic being discussed, or that they may disagree with another person's view of it, does not make them a racist. Being unwiling to discuss the differences between the 2 points of view, and instead labeling others as "racist"\"white supremecists"\... actually comes across as exceedingly bigoted and is inclined to make people take a lesser view of what the person doing so may believe\support, as well as them as a person.



funeralxempire
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22 Aug 2020, 1:08 am

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
Yet, these feuds and petty grudges created on political grounds have been spilling all over the forum, including the Haven and the rest of us can't use it for its intended purpose without every other thread being derailed into endless, repetitive and violent arguments and downright harassment (some people were indeed threatened with physical violence). It's enough to disagree with someone on non-political issues to be called a snowflake, a Nazi or even a racist.


I think the term Nazi should be added to the derogatory list. Sure some people have expressed white nationalist sympathies consciously or not, but no one here is spouting off Nazi rhetoric. The term has very specific historic context that no one here supports. Obviously is an actual Nazi shows up in their full infamy than yeah.

BenderRodriguez wrote:
There has also been a serious problem with the way very young people and those lower functioning are being treated, which included various forms of invalidation, insults and being told to their faces that their opinions and experiences don't matter due to their age or level of impairment.


Agreed. The mean age of WP users seems to have gone up since I took a break back in 2017.


I agree, Neo-Nazi or alt-right would be more appropriate terms. And not to be a snowflake, but us Europeans tend to take the word very seriously and some scars haven't healed yet, many of us visited Auschwitz and have been told first-hand about what our parents or grandparents went through and what it took to rebuild our countries from the ground up. I'm not comfortable with people trivialising these tragedies by throwing the word around so casually.

Yes, activity, in general, decreased dramatically, especially on autism-related issues and so did civility. There have been some "territorial" attitudes too and young ones and new users aren't welcomed in a particularly warm manner.


I would agree with your position about 'not trivializing' the term Nazi. They represent a unique and special horror, as do other especially horrific acts/regimes (Stalin's era, or the Terror or the Killing Fields come to mind). When something comparable occurs in the future it will deserve to be uniquely remembered too. Other fascist regimes aren't Nazis, other populist, reactionary, nationalist regimes aren't Nazis (even if they're fascists or 'right-wing' (analogous to 'pinko', it isn't literally calling anyone an actual Nazi).

I would also argue that people need to be careful about insisting that any term used to collectively refer to the right or parts of the right are just analogs to Nazi as is common among a few of our right-wing posters who need to portray themselves as victims because they're not winning arguments they feel they deserve to win. This is another form of trivializing the term Nazi. Referring to someone as a white supremacist isn't the same as calling them a Nazi. Nazi ideology was only one specific and very radical white supremacist ideology. Not all white supremacists are anti-Semites. Not all white supremacists are genocidal or hold the mindset that white people (however they choose to define that term) are inherently superior, if someone believes the interests of white people should be consistently placed ahead of others, or that others should have theirs consistently placed behind, that's enough to make that person a white supremacist. It doesn't make them a Nazi.


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
The core principle of conservatism is "Rules protect, but do not bind me. They bind, but do not protect you."


funeralxempire
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22 Aug 2020, 1:17 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
alex wrote:
the moderators are doing their best to make the community positive. I don't know the context of what happened with you league girl. You'd have to appeal to them if you have an issue with it. But racism is pretty common in america. most people have done racist things at some point in their lives with or without realizing it.


If racism is that common, then I hope it can become a non-issue unless clearly racist or inappropriate comments are made.

Going out of one's way to call another person racist is hurtful, especially when it's meant to demean the person's character. If the person was truly racist, and there was evidence to support the claim, I'd assume they would have been banned by the moderators long ago.


I wish your opinion was the reality but the fact of the matter is that casual racism (soft white supremacism if you prefer) is common and woven into the fabric of western society. I wouldn't want someone warned for posting that they don't think indigenous Americans or black people haven't contributed to building our society because it's likely what they were taught in school but I find it appalling for someone referring to that attitude as racist to receive any punishment whatsoever because all they've done is called that attitude what it is.

Since this community exists to support a community where eccentric ideas are more common than average I wouldn't want posters banned for expressing ideas that are outside of the mainstream, even if they're moderately offensive. That said, we should still be entitled to express objective truths even if they are inconvenient or have the potential to ruffle feathers. Having one's opinion labelled as racist by another poster for expressing a racist view shouldn't ever warrant a warning, since when was speaking the truth punishable? Since when was this community opposed to the truth being spoken? Especially in PPR where a lot of leeway is (and should be) given to all sides.

If the official stance is that racism isn't tolerated than we need to work to ensure that's actually the truth. We can't claim we don't if we actually do. (For that matter, considering how common and widespread casual racism is, perhaps we should take a moment to reflect that we might need to be officially tolerant of it to a degree so that we don't end up like my high school's anti-bullying position which was officially to not tolerate it but to basically refuse to record or acknowledge it so that officially it didn't happen even on days where someone left in an ambulance. Being officially tolerant of it doesn't mean as a community tolerating it, it just means that posters don't receive official sanction, they just have to deal with having other posters criticize their views.)

People who espouse 'soft white supremacist' views often like to insist that only card-carrying Nazis count, but that's dishonestly redefining the term so that they don't have to reflect on the positions they openly espouse. Kowtowing to political correctness because some posters might have their feelings hurt doesn't seem reasonable, especially when racism is an issue that directly impacts this community. PoC are less likely to be diagnosed, less likely to receive support and less likely to have pursuing help covered by insurance. How can we be genuinely welcoming when there's a handful of posters who peddle in racist stereotypes on a daily basis?

Yes, that fixation on posting a nasty news story involving black offenders that a few posters have is what I'm talking about; especially when they use those stories to reinforce their stereotypes that allow them to conclude any issues those communities face are entirely their own fault and not at all connected to ongoing systemic discrimination.

No, that stuff doesn't warrant a warning, but it does warrant allowing posters to call it what it is.


I contributed significantly to the thread about racism in Canada, discussing systemic prejudice and racism toward the black and indigenous population. I have posted in support of BLM since the day George Floyd was murdered. I have never posted a "soft" racist comment on this site, and conversely I have always promoted liberal ideology from gay rights, to trans-rights, to antiracism, equality, egalitarianism, peace, and protest.

I am unsure how or why you ever implied that I am a racist, a soft racist, or any term of that nature. Likewise, I was mocked for taking a mental health break related to sexual violence. You specifically said that it was more important to pick your nose than to show any concern for my mental health. This was in The Haven when you ridiculed me for having a "memorial thread" which, incidentally, I neither began nor contributed toward.

I support your statements against racism, but please realise I am not racist and I will not be characterised as such on an international, public forum. Nor will I be called a coddled white supremacist when you have no idea who I am, and you admit that you have never even read my posts.


Where did I call you a white supremacist? :?

I have no recollection of this, but I'd be very interested in seeing it.

I've had some issues of my own including ahem mild issues with substances and what (luckily) turned out be a persistent psychotic delusion that my ex had killed herself and was haunting me. Much of this s**t I can discuss anywhere, even here. I can't tell my family, I have no friends, therapy has never helped me before so I won't bother. The fact that I'm a relatively functional and occasionally coherent wreck doesn't mean that I'm not a wreck.

If you mean the post where I called everyone including myself racist, I don't apologize for that.

If I've come off as sounding like I'm constantly screaming like I've a telephone pole shoved through my body for the past two years it's because I've persistently been in the sort of pain equivalent to of having had a f*****g telephone pole shoved through my body.


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
The core principle of conservatism is "Rules protect, but do not bind me. They bind, but do not protect you."


Last edited by funeralxempire on 22 Aug 2020, 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

sly279
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22 Aug 2020, 1:20 am

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22 Aug 2020, 1:24 am

^



funeralxempire
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22 Aug 2020, 1:39 am

I started rapping because when I talk about my life people tell me I'm crazy.
When I rap about my life they still say that, but the tone and stressing changes for the positive.

All of my coping mechanisms are broken and maladaptive so you likely won't have to deal with me for much longer even if I don't ever intentionally or actively do anything to hasten that outcome.


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
The core principle of conservatism is "Rules protect, but do not bind me. They bind, but do not protect you."


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22 Aug 2020, 1:45 am

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22 Aug 2020, 1:53 am

League_Girl wrote:
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