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BenderRodriguez
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23 Aug 2020, 12:33 pm

Drake: Unfortunately, Ferris is not a mod anymore and doesn't have access.


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Last edited by BenderRodriguez on 23 Aug 2020, 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wolfram87
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23 Aug 2020, 12:33 pm

League_Girl wrote:

I was gonna say it was a trap. Reminds me of that South Park episode.


It's not a trap, it's an illustration. The claim being that just saying the word in question unilaterally proves that the speaker, regardless of the context, is a bigot and a bad person. I'm not suggesting we start making excuses for anyone who would apply that word to a fellow human, but this borderline Pavlovian revulsion at the mere utterance of the word is absurd.

BenderRodriguez wrote:
^
Unfortunately, Ferris is not a mod anymore and doesn't have access.


Yeah, someone should fix that.


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League_Girl
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23 Aug 2020, 12:36 pm

Drake wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Drake wrote:
So I've only just found this thread. I don't know if anything productive has been accomplished in it, but I'd like to bring something up.

Tldr version:

If you get banned, you have to go through the mod that banned you and if they don't want to, well tough luck. That should change. I think you should be able to get a second look at the issue from other mods, but if you can't, at the very least the mod in question should have to properly engage, and if they can't be bothered, then at the very least then other mods should be able to take over.

Does this mean mods are above reproach? And that they can't reverse something even if it's blatantly obvious it should be if the punisher doesn't want to?

Longer version:

A while back, I got banned for being "racist" when I wasn't by Skilpadde, and after the ban expired I went into the mod thread to seek answers. I didn't even know what I could have got banned for. There was no prior warning of anything either.

Ferris and Walrus both expected me to know who banned me and why, I knew neither.

She didn't show up in the mod thread and they eventually found out it was Skilpadde and told me to pm her, but I couldn't as she'd disabled the option to pm her.

So they got in touch with her for me, and she came to the thread, irritated, and posted basically what amounted to I banned you for being racist cuz you were, duh. And that was that.

So I continued seeking an explanation, and was getting brushed off by envirozentinal, until Smudge showed up in the thread concerned about the way I was being treated so the attitude changed and I got a pm for the explanation, but it wasn't really an explanation, though it was established what post triggered the ban. We did kind of make up with each other, but all in all it's just sloppy and shabby treatment, and it doesn't need to be if mods aren't above reproach from other mods.

At least the other three mods were willing to put in a not insignificant amount of time and effort, and I did learn a few things about how things work here. But I'm sure no one could have explained it because the ban was wrong.



I'm sorry you were treated that way and you should have been provided an explanation and it sounds like assumptions were made.

Even if what you wrote was in fact racist, you still should have been informed about it. I know how upsetting it is to just get banned without an explanation and you are left wondering what you did wrong and you feel bullied and victimized.

So, I'm not the only one it's happened to.

I think this is a good time to add that while sure, I want to remove the stain from my name, this is less about my own personal experience, and more about the flaw in the system which allowed this to happen to us. It happened because it can, and it can keep happening. That's the main problem. And it would seem even more important to correct it if we're about to get some new mods.


It's happened to lot of people here and I honestly thought those days were over when we got new mods. I think mods should remain un bias but the excuse I have gotten for it was, "mods are human" and being told I should be careful what I post on other forums and to me that comes off as admitting that the former mods here did moderate members off this site and punished them here for actions they did elsewhere. It was even confirmed in a mod log that leaked. So as a result, I use different user names on each site now I go to.

As I wrote before "if you think a kid is a brat, anything they do will be malicious."

If a mod has a bias view about you for some reason, they will see any negativity in your post and think all your actions are intentional and malicious and think you have an agenda.


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IsabellaLinton
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23 Aug 2020, 12:38 pm

Temeraire requested to see a copy of the Mods' Rule Book, several days ago.

Is this available yet? It might help to clear up any confusion about their responsibilities as members of the mod team.



Oh_no_its_Ferris
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23 Aug 2020, 12:39 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:

Yeah, someone should fix that.


That'll be like giving Trump the football :jester:


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Drake
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23 Aug 2020, 12:53 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Drake: Unfortunately, Ferris is not a mod anymore and doesn't have access.

Thanks. I pm'd him.



BenderRodriguez
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23 Aug 2020, 1:11 pm

Drake wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
Drake: Unfortunately, Ferris is not a mod anymore and doesn't have access.

Thanks. I pm'd him.


You're welcome, I'm familiar with the kind of problem you're talking about. We're all trying to get some positive change in here.


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23 Aug 2020, 1:12 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
alex wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
alex wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=388536

Is this the thread that has everyone so riled up?


There's likely more than one, this has been a point of contention for years, even in the era BT. :lol:


BT = Before Trump I assume?

Has Sly ever actually supported white nationalist groups verbally? Are his responses meant as a critique to how some people perceive 'the Left' to be pure.

Sly I think this would be a good time to explain your point of view carefully and calmly as you can.


He used the N word in this thread.


Where did he say that?

I am not reading 116 pages to find it.


he equated people calling him a white supremacist with people calling black people the n word, but he wrote it out


In context that doesn't sound racist.. He's posing one insult alongside what he believes is the equivalent to show how offended he feels


Exactly so.


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23 Aug 2020, 1:15 pm

magz wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
The thing is to agree respectfully.

Also to disagree respectfully.


Especially that.


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magz
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23 Aug 2020, 1:26 pm

League_Girl wrote:
As I wrote before "if you think a kid is a brat, anything they do will be malicious."

I think many of us fell victim to this kind of prejudice at some moments of our lives. It's so easy when one has communication issues.
We need to be very caucious not to put others in such a position, too.


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Drake
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23 Aug 2020, 1:30 pm

magz wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
As I wrote before "if you think a kid is a brat, anything they do will be malicious."

I think many of us fell victim to this kind of prejudice at some moments of our lives. It's so easy when one has communication issues.
We need to be very caucious not to put others in such a position, too.

The incident I mentioned is the only time I've had any trouble with mods (not even a warning before, never mind a ban) so I don't think anyone's out to get me.



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23 Aug 2020, 1:53 pm

Quote:
so I don't think anyone's out to get me.



I know some members here will feel that way when someone keeps reporting them to the mods and they keep getting messages from mods about their comments.

But I don't think there would be a solution to this problem. Some members here are just vulnerable and fragile so they will feel threatened either way no matter how civil the comment is from the mod. They will just think someone is trying to get them banned.

I know in the past some mods have raged quit because they got tired of getting PMs from members complaining about a post they didn't like. But I don't think that was the main reason why they quit.


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23 Aug 2020, 2:22 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Drake wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Drake wrote:
So I've only just found this thread. I don't know if anything productive has been accomplished in it, but I'd like to bring something up.

Tldr version:

If you get banned, you have to go through the mod that banned you and if they don't want to, well tough luck. That should change. I think you should be able to get a second look at the issue from other mods, but if you can't, at the very least the mod in question should have to properly engage, and if they can't be bothered, then at the very least then other mods should be able to take over.

Does this mean mods are above reproach? And that they can't reverse something even if it's blatantly obvious it should be if the punisher doesn't want to?

Longer version:

A while back, I got banned for being "racist" when I wasn't by Skilpadde, and after the ban expired I went into the mod thread to seek answers. I didn't even know what I could have got banned for. There was no prior warning of anything either.

Ferris and Walrus both expected me to know who banned me and why, I knew neither.

She didn't show up in the mod thread and they eventually found out it was Skilpadde and told me to pm her, but I couldn't as she'd disabled the option to pm her.

So they got in touch with her for me, and she came to the thread, irritated, and posted basically what amounted to I banned you for being racist cuz you were, duh. And that was that.

So I continued seeking an explanation, and was getting brushed off by envirozentinal, until Smudge showed up in the thread concerned about the way I was being treated so the attitude changed and I got a pm for the explanation, but it wasn't really an explanation, though it was established what post triggered the ban. We did kind of make up with each other, but all in all it's just sloppy and shabby treatment, and it doesn't need to be if mods aren't above reproach from other mods.

At least the other three mods were willing to put in a not insignificant amount of time and effort, and I did learn a few things about how things work here. But I'm sure no one could have explained it because the ban was wrong.



I'm sorry you were treated that way and you should have been provided an explanation and it sounds like assumptions were made.

Even if what you wrote was in fact racist, you still should have been informed about it. I know how upsetting it is to just get banned without an explanation and you are left wondering what you did wrong and you feel bullied and victimized.

So, I'm not the only one it's happened to.

I think this is a good time to add that while sure, I want to remove the stain from my name, this is less about my own personal experience, and more about the flaw in the system which allowed this to happen to us. It happened because it can, and it can keep happening. That's the main problem. And it would seem even more important to correct it if we're about to get some new mods.


It's happened to lot of people here and I honestly thought those days were over when we got new mods. I think mods should remain un bias but the excuse I have gotten for it was, "mods are human" and being told I should be careful what I post on other forums and to me that comes off as admitting that the former mods here did moderate members off this site and punished them here for actions they did elsewhere. It was even confirmed in a mod log that leaked. So as a result, I use different user names on each site now I go to.

As I wrote before "if you think a kid is a brat, anything they do will be malicious."

If a mod has a bias view about you for some reason, they will see any negativity in your post and think all your actions are intentional and malicious and think you have an agenda.

In an advocacy job I did some years back on Monday after lunch, I was assisting someone in respect of maintaining their tenancy agreement, which they had been very well in terms of not disturbing their neighbours with loud music after pub sessions, and paying their rent on time.

When the housing association manager and assistant came into the property, and the meeting began ~ they were very sombre and stern, and stated in a very oppressive manner that if the tenant did not keep their tenancy agreement ~ an eviction would take place! 8O

Having seen this pattern of behaviour so very many times before, I asked if the housing association manager and the assistant had been in court all morning dealing with evictions ~ which surprised them somewhat, and to which they said they had. I then informed them they were still in a "Courtroom" frame of mind which did not need to be normalised, as the tenant had rightfully expected to have the tenancy agreement assured as permanent from temporary, on account of very successfully having maintaining it for the required amount of time in the requested amount of ways, and congratulations were in order.

The meeting went very well indeed after that.

Moderators have after years here of insufficient numbers gotten into a normalised state of mind where abuse has to be quite significant before they take action, and when they do the abusive behaviour is so normal that people cannot work out what all the fuss is about, or cannot work out why more fuss is not being made about it, and everything in between.

The game of "Courtroom" involves some one or some people being right, and some one or some people being wrong. Trying to draw attention to mistakes having been made and not treating them as punishable offences but as retakes to be learnt from by doing otherwise, is of course the other option if we do not wish to keep on reading and writing about this issue.

Of course though as I stated before on page 112:
Deepthought 7 wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
magz wrote:
Please, League_Girl and Sly, don't let this thread get hijacked by a discussion that belongs to PPR.


And this my friends is the very root of the problem :D

The problem is feeling inferior, mediocre and superior (inferiority complex) from tribal elitisms and transferring the unbefitting discomfort of them over to another topic quite resembling it (racism / politics in the current case), and believing that by resolving that scapegoat subject that it will resolve the actual problem itself ~ whilst the elitism becomes even more habituated and uncomfortable on account of reaching either a consensus, or a drift-weed barren silence, not to deal with the tribal elitism itself ~ as involves the habitual feeling of being inferior, mediocre and superior. :(


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Feyokien
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23 Aug 2020, 2:24 pm

I've recovered.

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
Yes we should start over. blah blah


Yes we should start again but just let me have my say first , priceless Fey :lol:


I was explaining why we should start over. :( I'm sorry. I over-explain things. I don't get to talk much from being dominated most of my life. I've been trying to build up my confidence. I've made it worse.

I'm having a meltdown, I'm sorry, good day everyone.


I'm sorry you having a meltdown , my intention here is to not cause meltdowns but prevent them so that is not good, I'm sorry if you feel dominated , everyone here should have the freedom to have equal say ( within the rules ).
I am generally a sarcastic person but I did not mean offense , just like pointing out hypocrisy ( it's my curse ) , PM when you want, if you want to chat. :D


Apology accepted, we can't know what will set off everyone. I felt extremely mocked. I was up till 4 am last night defending Pepe to Alex and then explaining the situation to Ev in private messages, but you didn't know that.

I wasn't practicing hypocrisy though from my point of view. I made a statement, and then I tried to support that statement. That was the blah blah blah. My last sentence makes it abundantly clear why we should start over. Before that I was synthesizing my version of the events, appealing to unity, and apologizing for my role. Generally people need to be convinced to start over don't they? I was trying to mediate the situation. Maybe my choice of phrase was poor, to me it means accept that things got messy on both sides and move forward in a constructive fashion.

Feyokien wrote:
Yes we should start over. It was an extremely racially insensitive remark, to compare the n-word (its historical context) to being called a white supremacist, but Sly may not have understood that. We all come from different backgrounds. We should both strive to make this a better community and to educate people if you see problematic behavior. If that doesn't solve the issue than bring it to the attention of the mods. Foremost we are all Neurodiverse (except for the NTs :P ), we all have more in common with each other than a lot of other people. We all have struggles. Last night was an unfortunate series of events that I feel responsible for precipitating by dredging up old posts. I am sorry :(. Emotions were high, things happened fast, and neither side understood where each other was coming from.



Last edited by Feyokien on 23 Aug 2020, 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BenderRodriguez
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23 Aug 2020, 2:28 pm

AuroraBorealisGazer wrote:

Alex, it's important to remember that there are many members here from different countries that aren't aware of what goes on in the US to the extent that you are. You are also a popular person living in a very progressive city, where I surmise you're exposed to many social activists/aware/woke people who know all of the rules.

I've become quite liberal in my political views, but I haven't been exposed to the same things you have and I'm still learning what things are and aren't PC. As autists we've probably all had our words pounced on because we don't know all of the social rules. This becomes very distressing when you have good intentions but can't ever seem to say things correctly.

I would hope on a site for NDs that we could be given the benefit of the doubt (that we may not know everything you know). I think instead of pointing fingers and declaring someone a racist, it would be helpful if we took the time to discuss with the person why what they said was offensive.


These are very good points. I'll give the first example that poped in my head: one of the most annoying things you can tell a Black European person is to call them African American. This might seem absurd, especially since some of them don't even have African heritage, but you would be surprised how often it happens and how much they hate it.

Add age to the list: I'm older and thought that since I'm neither racist nor homophobic, all is well. But recently I had to do a lot of research about transsexuality and gender identity and while I don't have anything against it, I still don't really understand some of it. I keep my mouth shut about it here instead of asking questions because I don't want to have my head bitten off.

So, some people are very entrenched in their own culture or milieu, lingo included, and forget or ignore that many others are not familiar with it. Sure, it's an individual responsibility to educate oneself, but some of these things move so fast these days and get so specific, especially in less mainstream, everyday issues, that not everybody can keep up.

It's much better to ask questions and engage in some kind of dialogue instead of making assumptions or jumping to conclusions, or worse, insults and accusations.


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BenderRodriguez
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23 Aug 2020, 2:30 pm

Glad you're feeling better, Fey :)


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