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Oh_no_its_Ferris
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23 Aug 2020, 5:47 pm

Chain wrote:

Basically all people do not understand the experiences of others that do not look like them, think like them, believe like them and live like them............


oh... and the N-word is MUCH worse than calling a person racist.


You claim to know shite then espouse it :lol:


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The_Walrus
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23 Aug 2020, 5:50 pm

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
I just like to point out some of your comments said in the last month Walrus as surely you must be part of this white supremacy in action as well

Quote:
The s**t that people have been posting that was said to Sly - I honestly hadn’t seen any of that. It’s obviously unacceptable and the mangy dog thing should have resulted in a ban.


Quote:
And I’ve never had any trouble with you, Sly.

Top one - I was misled. Sly was not called a mangy dog. I can understand why Sly would have been confused by the idiom that was used as it is a common autistic symptom. But the user who used that idiom has apologised for it... and been roundly criticised for doing so.

Second one - still stand by, I don’t have a problem with Sly and certainly didn’t then when I hadn’t seen the controversial post. I’ve said elsewhere that I don’t even have a problem with the one user here who I do think is a deliberate racist.

Again - fine to defend people who make mistakes! But defending the use of the n-word while criticising the use of “racist”, or publicly opposing bullying while also participating in it - not fine.



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23 Aug 2020, 5:53 pm

My view, in a bit refined form:

1. One group gets very triggered by insensitivity to racism in the US.
2. The other group gets very triggered by insensitivity to a person's mental breakdown.

It's been like that for months now and it became so blinding painful for both sides that constructive discussion became nearly impossible.
I hope we can work on solving both the problems, not one at the cost of the other.


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Chain
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23 Aug 2020, 5:55 pm

I just did... I will not act non-pissed off when I see these behaviors though. I am married to a Vietnamese women who has been told to go back home... I have a close black friend that has had lots of issues with racism. My child has been attacked by this administration because he is trans.

I don't cry when someone calls me names. I have my own beliefs and I am espousing them... is not calling people racist enough?

.



Last edited by envirozentinel on 24 Aug 2020, 12:38 am, edited 2 times in total.: personal comments removed

Chain
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23 Aug 2020, 5:59 pm

If I am having a real mental breakdown... I do not seek support by being divisively political. I work with a Trump supporter and I support him through some really horrible stuff that happens at work. I care about him... and I care about Sly. Sly is ruining the support he has by being insensitive. That is a strategy that is doomed to failure for him. I would like to see him seek support from people who are not like him.

Like I said... I will not call him racist. I will call anybody out for insensitivity. I will also call them out for acting like they are victims.



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23 Aug 2020, 6:02 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
It is very interesting that many of the users who are leaping to the defence of the use of the n-word have also been campaigning for a ban on the use of the word “racist”.

It is very interesting to me that many of the users today arguing that users should be interpreted charitably have been campaigning for users to be banned based on extraordinarily uncharitable interpretations of their posts.

Take a good hard look at yourselves. I’d love for WrongPlanet to be a place where mistakes are tolerated and we try to be nice to each other, but at the moment you’re extending charity extremely unevenly. This isn’t going to be a popular comment, but I feel morally bound to make it. It’s completely fair to call this white supremacy in action.

I appreciate that not all of you are being toxic, some of you are genuinely being really nice to everyone! But I really do wish some of you would extend the warmth you have towards Sly to people who raise concerns about racism. The last few days have shown a really ugly side of some people I have only ever had respect for, and it’s so disappointing.


Here I find myself again thrown in with real or imaginary "troublemakers" and even worse, white supremacists, once again because I stood up for someone who can't do it very well by himself. I'm getting tired of it.

I didn't even know there's a "campaign" for banning the word racist, nevermind participated in it. I and others objected to the use of "Nazi" and even FXE agreed that the term is used incorrectly and frivolously.

Yes, some of us extended warmth towards others: I offered a hand to FXE right here in this thread and while he didn't react to it yet, I still hope he'll accept it.

And as a bi-racial person who grew up at a time and in conditions that lead to me being the target of hate and prejudice from both sides, I find your accusation of "white supremacy" incredibly ignorant, misguided and offensive. And it's literally my first time on this site when I've actually taken offence. Thank you, you found my threshhold.

So maybe you should take your own advice and take a long hard look at yourself before making such public accusations or maybe you should change this thread's name into "How to make sure everybody who doesn't agree 100% with my very thought" leaves.


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23 Aug 2020, 6:03 pm

Chain wrote:
I promised myself I would not read this thread as I get so riled up.

Basically all people do not understand the experiences of others that do not look like them, think like them, believe like them and live like them.

We are all racist, sexist etc...

But if you are in the group that has the power... that inability to understand the experience of others can be very harmful.

Humans build social groups generally through the feelings of victimization and superiority. You can see this in the way that sly shows insensitivity (superiority) and then acts victimized when people get upset with him (he posts in the haven about how mistreated he is).

So... what we need here is sensitivity for people who are different from us. This is why I avoid calling people racist even though I have people I love deeply who don't look like me and bear the attacks from insensitive people.

I have tried gently to talk with Sly about how his racial insensitivity is similar to what we face in our lives with autism but he really doesn't care. There are lots of people in the politics section who openly attack people with different beliefs and most of them are right wing. This is because the Overton window for the right in the US has moved fully towards authoritarianism.

When anyone points out their behavior... they act all attacked.

I think calling them racially insensitive is better than calling them racist but in the end... they just want to troll... get called out, then go off crying that nobody likes them or they are being attacked. They are unwilling to change.

They are really getting bad in the US (and WP) because they have someone who promotes these views as a leader in the US. I will not get into the stupid argument that DJT is racist (everyone is... he is just virulent and has power)... he certainly promotes division in the US because authoritarians always do that.

I think one of the best ways to improve WP is to not take the bait when they troll us. The best way to get rid of these trolls... or at least chasten them... is to kick DJT's orange ass out of the White House. (for all you American non-trump supporters out there)

I am certainly sick of weak snowflake right winger crying ("WP is so bad... they attacked me and called me and all Trump supporters racist!").. don't get me started on the incels here!

oh... and the N-word is MUCH worse than calling a person racist. A person can not change their skin color but they sure as hell can try to be a decent person who listens to the experiences of people who do not look like them. Sly thinks racism doesn't exist (unless you are a white person... then the minorities are racist against you)...lol!



I see you are from PDX, so am I. Hi.


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23 Aug 2020, 6:06 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Isn't Duke the former Grand Dragon Space Wizard, or whatever the top rank is?


He is, but that doesn't inherently mean much. It's like being the 'leader' in a religious sect that doesn't recognize a central leadership. The Klan doesn't exist as a single group but instead dozens or more, and some of them have abandoned direct ties with the Klan's legacy in order to further their goals of a white nationalist society (however they choose to define that, they don't all agree on exactly what that would entail).


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23 Aug 2020, 6:12 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
It is very interesting that many of the users who are leaping to the defence of the use of the n-word have also been campaigning for a ban on the use of the word “racist”.

It is very interesting to me that many of the users today arguing that users should be interpreted charitably have been campaigning for users to be banned based on extraordinarily uncharitable interpretations of their posts.

Take a good hard look at yourselves. I’d love for WrongPlanet to be a place where mistakes are tolerated and we try to be nice to each other, but at the moment you’re extending charity extremely unevenly. This isn’t going to be a popular comment, but I feel morally bound to make it. It’s completely fair to call this white supremacy in action.

I appreciate that not all of you are being toxic, some of you are genuinely being really nice to everyone! But I really do wish some of you would extend the warmth you have towards Sly to people who raise concerns about racism. The last few days have shown a really ugly side of some people I have only ever had respect for, and it’s so disappointing.


Here I find myself again thrown in with real or imaginary "troublemakers" and even worse, white supremacists, once again because I stood up for someone who can't do it very well by himself. I'm getting tired of it.

I didn't even know there's a "campaign" for banning the word racist, nevermind participated in it. I and others objected to the use of "Nazi" and even FXE agreed that the term is used incorrectly and frivolously.

Yes, some of us extended warmth towards others: I offered a hand to FXE right here in this thread and while he didn't react to it yet, I still hope he'll accept it.

And as a bi-racial person who grew up at a time and in conditions that lead to me being the target of hate and prejudice from both sides, I find your accusation of "white supremacy" incredibly ignorant, misguided and offensive. And it's literally my first time on this site when I've actually taken offence. Thank you, you found my threshhold.

So maybe you should take your own advice and take a long hard look at yourself before making such public accusations or maybe you should change this thread's name into "How to make sure everybody who doesn't agree 100% with my very thought" leaves.


You're likely not within who he's referring to as toxic, you're almost certainly part of who he's calling generally nice to everyone.

Pepe has repeatedly suggested using the word racist be disallowed. I don't know if you've supported this or would support it. Only people who have openly agreed would be part of this bloc.

Hurt feelings don't make one right. Piling on me because I don't sob and beg for sympathy so easily doesn't make me the villain. Everyone who made a kneejerk reaction to line up in support of Sly before they had even heard my side of things has contributed to bullying a poster here and I appreciate that the Walrus actually took the risk of saying so.


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The_Walrus
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23 Aug 2020, 6:14 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
It is very interesting that many of the users who are leaping to the defence of the use of the n-word have also been campaigning for a ban on the use of the word “racist”.

It is very interesting to me that many of the users today arguing that users should be interpreted charitably have been campaigning for users to be banned based on extraordinarily uncharitable interpretations of their posts.

Take a good hard look at yourselves. I’d love for WrongPlanet to be a place where mistakes are tolerated and we try to be nice to each other, but at the moment you’re extending charity extremely unevenly. This isn’t going to be a popular comment, but I feel morally bound to make it. It’s completely fair to call this white supremacy in action.

I appreciate that not all of you are being toxic, some of you are genuinely being really nice to everyone! But I really do wish some of you would extend the warmth you have towards Sly to people who raise concerns about racism. The last few days have shown a really ugly side of some people I have only ever had respect for, and it’s so disappointing.


Here I find myself again thrown in with real or imaginary "troublemakers" and even worse, white supremacists, once again because I stood up for someone who can't do it very well by himself. I'm getting tired of it.

I didn't even know there's a "campaign" for banning the word racist, nevermind participated in it. I and others objected to the use of "Nazi" and even FXE agreed that the term is used incorrectly and frivolously.

Yes, some of us extended warmth towards others: I offered a hand to FXE right here in this thread and while he didn't react to it yet, I still hope he'll accept it.

And as a bi-racial person who grew up at a time and in conditions that lead to me being the target of hate and prejudice from both sides, I find your accusation of "white supremacy" incredibly ignorant, misguided and offensive. And it's literally my first time on this site when I've actually taken offence. Thank you, you found my threshhold.

So maybe you should take your own advice and take a long hard look at yourself before making such public accusations or maybe you should change this thread's name into "How to make sure everybody who doesn't agree 100% with my very thought" leaves.

I took great pains to make it very clear in my post that some users, a group in which I would place you, are equal-opportunity nice people. If you’re nice to everyone then there is not a problem. We need more of that. I’m sure you simply skimmed over the later sections of the post, but I would thank you not to misrepresent what I said.



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23 Aug 2020, 6:15 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
But defending the use of the n-word while criticising the use of “racist”, or publicly opposing bullying while also participating in it - not fine.


Sorry about the first comment.

But if his quote is to believed it wasn't used in a racist way , he tried to equate his attack the same as racism , how is it racist to feel empathy for PoC who get called the 'N' word .

I have no idea what racism feels like but I sure know what defamation of my character feels like , that's what I'm critiscing.


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23 Aug 2020, 6:17 pm

After learning more about xenophobia, I have realized I have experienced xenophobia as a child.

I used to get asked where I was from at school and kids also were mean to me because they didn't like how I talked and they thought I talked funny. So it was both ableism and xenophobia I had experienced. Plus my little brother had a boy in his class who was from another country so he was very slow at speaking English and I can remember my brother pointing to a picture of him in his year book saying "Kids don't like him because he is from another country so he can't talk right." Xenophobia right there and I am sure this was learned and kids picked up on that attitude from their parents.


So if someone were to ask me with attitude "Where are you from?" I will assume they are a xenophobic. Luckily no one has told me to go back to where I came from because I sound like I have an accent. Maybe because I am white and they might be assuming I came here legally or they could be thinking I am from back east. One of my school mates told me in 4th grade I sounded like I am from New York. She meant it in a non mean way because she was there for a trip and everyone talked funny and she thought they all sounded like me. So she no longer thought I talked funny, only thought I talked like a New Yorker. :D

But there is a different between asking someone where they are from and being curious and asking it because you are disgusted they are in your country. People who ask it with curiosity ask it in a cheerful and happy way.

You don't need to be an immigrant to experience xenophobia. if someone is mean to you because you "talk funny" that is enough for me to say they are a xenophobic because they are intolerant of other languages and how words are said. I wonder if there is a term for people who are intolerant of different accents despite being from the same country as them but they had moved to a different area from the other side.


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23 Aug 2020, 6:19 pm

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
But defending the use of the n-word while criticising the use of “racist”, or publicly opposing bullying while also participating in it - not fine.


Sorry about the first comment.

But if his quote is to believed it wasn't used in a racist way , he tried to equate his attack the same as racism , how is it racist to feel empathy for PoC who get called the 'N' word .

I have no idea what racism feels like but I sure know what defamation of my character feels like , that's what I'm critiscing.


Personally I haven't attacked him for that metaphor, but the original statement described him as sympathizing with white supremacists, but whether intentionally or not it got built into something worse.

Both comments (you lay with dogs and you'll get fleas and sympathizing with white supremacists) were greatly exaggerated in order to work up the backlash I've received. I also know what defamation of my character feels like and that's what I've been subjected to here.


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23 Aug 2020, 6:24 pm

I feel no hate towards any member here. I am not pleased with some actions of some posters that's for sure.


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23 Aug 2020, 6:28 pm

I don't hate anyone either. Nor am I avoiding the issue by having my PM off. That is a personal matter and unrelated to the issue at hand, so I'm sorry for any misunderstandings in that regard. The mods are aware of my reasons for keeping it off since the spring.

I have an idea, which I've stated before but I will state again in the interest of supporting Wrong Planet.

Can we please agree that the racial issues caused considerable divide, as well as considerable opportunity for this site to address key problems, and move toward a better future?

Can we please agree to put any tensions behind us, wipe the slate clean so to speak, and try again? I'm not saying that to dismiss anyone, or to negate the serious subject matter at hand, but I think everyone has aired their concerns and I hope we can all move forward, agreeing that racial or supremacist ideology is not allowed, rule breaks of any hurtful nature should be reported privately for moderation, and we won't continue calling people out or fighting about the past? I would encourage having no hard feelings toward anyone, or avoiding people politely if you simply must, for the sake of WP.

I for one would love this. We will have new moderators and it's a turning point for everything to feel like a fresh start.

Please add your name to this list if you think that this is possible.

Isabella Linton



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23 Aug 2020, 6:33 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I don't hate anyone either. Nor am I avoiding the issue by having my PM off. That is a personal matter and unrelated to the issue at hand, so I'm sorry for any misunderstandings in that regard. The mods are aware of my reasons for keeping it off since the spring.

I have an idea, which I've stated before but I will state again in the interest of supporting Wrong Planet.

Can we please agree that the racial issues caused considerable divide, as well as considerable opportunity for this site to address key problems, and move toward a better future?

Can we please agree to put any tensions behind us, wipe the slate clean so to speak, and try again? I'm not saying that to dismiss anyone, or to negate the serious subject matter at hand, but I think everyone has aired their concerns and I hope we can all move forward, agreeing that racial or supremacist ideology is not allowed, rule breaks of any hurtful nature should be reported privately for moderation, and we won't continue calling people out or fighting about the past? I would encourage having no hard feelings toward anyone, or avoiding people politely if you simply must, for the sake of WP.

I for one would love this. We will have new moderators and it's a turning point for everything to feel like a fresh start.

Please add your name to this list if you think that this is possible.

Isabella Linton


I'm perfectly willing to move on, however I do feel you owe me an apology as I have felt bullied. Many of your attacks like referring to lyrics I've written or drama on another site are flat-out uncalled for and unfair. I don't expect one, but if I receive one I'd be happy to add my name to the list.


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Last edited by The_Walrus on 23 Aug 2020, 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.: Toned down language slightly