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magz
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26 Aug 2020, 11:47 am

To put it into some perspective:
Many years ago, the headmaster of my high school publicly insulted his students. I found it unacceptable. The story is funny itself but I managed to publicly ridicule him for it. Of course, I got in trouble - but I was a top student, with plenty of awards etc., so when I then lied low and gave him no excuse, he had no chance to revenge.
My year was the only one when the Absolvent Of The Year Award was omitted. Well, he couldn't have appreciate my achievements more. It meant he hated me enough not to give it to me but there was no other candidate to give it to instead.

The bottom line is: I can become really awful when I see a person on a position of power disrespecting those they should be caring for. Ferris is triggered by it too, but while Ferris gets Berserk, I become a Machiavelli. You really don't want me to be your enemy.
But over the years, I've learned to walk away from fights. I'm still triggered by what I've seen, so I find it prudent just to leave, or at least not take any further responsibilities here.

The rules - I would like a discussion about editing them in a way preventing possible abuse I pointed out. But that's not my problem. My problem is, while there are rules against "hate speech", I see a lot of dismissive, judgemental speech flourishing in posts of the officially most important people on the site.
I can's accept that and if you don't want to see me fighting, let me just walk away.


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League_Girl
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26 Aug 2020, 11:55 am

Fnord wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
the absurd guidelines put forward by Alex.
What exactly are the absurd guidelines? How do they deviate from the site rules?
These were the "absurd" guidelines.
viewtopic.php?t=389905
I see nothing absurd about them, but someone who would be offended for having their racist perspective and opinions called out might consider them absurd or even label them as "Snowflake Rules" to discredit them.

If calling out racism is made against The Rules, then racism will rise up and dominate this website unchallenged.



That is why I had the word in quotes because I also don't find them to be absurd.


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blazingstar
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26 Aug 2020, 12:21 pm

I live in the woods. Woods walks and swamp walks are one of the ways I stay in touch with what is important in life, in my life.

I was approached with a request to be a mod. I am not much interested in it, as it seems like a pretty thankless job. I really don't like it when people jump all over the mods. That said, I do feel an obligation to help with this site which has been so very beneficial to me, in the same ways that Magz says in the OP. So I agreed to do it if selected.

I have no idea if I made the cut or not. No one has contacted me since. While I understand completely why magz, teach, and wolf have withdrawn, I will not withdraw as long as I think I can do something positive for this group that means so much to me.


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26 Aug 2020, 12:23 pm

blazingstar wrote:
I have no idea if I made the cut or not. No one has contacted me since. While I understand completely why magz, teach, and wolf have withdrawn, I will not withdraw as long as I think I can do something positive for this group that means so much to me.
Thank you for your potential service. I hope you made the cut.



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26 Aug 2020, 12:28 pm

blazingstar wrote:
I live in the woods. Woods walks and swamp walks are one of the ways I stay in touch with what is important in life, in my life.

I was approached with a request to be a mod. I am not much interested in it, as it seems like a pretty thankless job. I really don't like it when people jump all over the mods. That said, I do feel an obligation to help with this site which has been so very beneficial to me, in the same ways that Magz says in the OP. So I agreed to do it if selected.

I have no idea if I made the cut or not. No one has contacted me since. While I understand completely why magz, teach, and wolf have withdrawn, I will not withdraw as long as I think I can do something positive for this group that means so much to me.



I am sure you will be a good mod. It is always nice seeing new mods around here.


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Wolfram87
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26 Aug 2020, 12:30 pm

Did we not read the same guidelines? I've no issue with rules against racism, but declaring non-racist words to be racist is a slope of the slippery variety. And including the phrase "in any context" in a rule that would rely heavily on context to determine wether something was racist or not is thoughtless and counter-productive. And that's not even getting into the expectation of deference in points 3 and 4.


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Wolfram87
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26 Aug 2020, 12:31 pm

I have withdrawn my withdrawing, in the hope that I'll be doing something good for the community at large.


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Steve1963
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26 Aug 2020, 12:35 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
I have withdrawn my withdrawing, in the hope that I'll be doing something good for the community at large.
Excellent. I was hoping you'd come to that conclusion without me begging.



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26 Aug 2020, 12:37 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
I have withdrawn my withdrawing, in the hope that I'll be doing something good for the community at large.


Good. This place needs a rune mod.


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Wolfram87
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26 Aug 2020, 12:39 pm

Just wait til I go mad with power. I'm already mad, so I'm halfway there.


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alex
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26 Aug 2020, 12:47 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Did we not read the same guidelines? I've no issue with rules against racism, but declaring non-racist words to be racist is a slope of the slippery variety. And including the phrase "in any context" in a rule that would rely heavily on context to determine wether something was racist or not is thoughtless and counter-productive. And that's not even getting into the expectation of deference in points 3 and 4.

I think you misread the guideline. Non-racist words are only not allowed when used in a racist way. So for instance, saying the following would not be permitted:

Quote:
These rioters are nothing but wild animals. They need to be shot for setting buildings and vehicles on fire and for looting. Just because they don't agree with the outcome of a verdict does not give them the right to be dumb asses. Why do black people act so out of control when something does not go their way? I am in no way racist, but blacks act like the world owes them.


But saying "I like hiking and love when i get to see wild animals" would not be racist.

I'm kind of shocked to hear people defending poster's right to say things like that without being called out as racist or policing how it's done. Or people saying "nothing racist has been said" when clearly people say racist things on here all the time and then claim it isn't or claim they're not a racist in the same paragraph filled with racist words and argument.


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26 Aug 2020, 1:07 pm

alex wrote:
... I'm kind of shocked to hear people defending poster's right to say things like that without being called out as racist or policing how it's done. Or people saying "nothing racist has been said" when clearly people say racist things on here all the time and then claim it isn't or claim they're not a racist in the same paragraph filled with racist words and argument.
That's what I call "Covert Racism" -- someone does not actually use words and terms that are inherently racist, but who says things about people of other races in a discriminatory, insulting, or belittling way ... and then they claim they are not being racist.



LaLaLand
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26 Aug 2020, 1:12 pm

^^ That happened in 2014 and was swiftly dealt with by one poster and KIP

Do you have any recent examples because it 2020



Wolfram87
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26 Aug 2020, 1:16 pm

Quote:
These rioters are nothing but wild animals. They need to be shot for setting buildings and vehicles on fire and for looting. Just because they don't agree with the outcome of a verdict does not give them the right to be dumb asses. Why do black people act so out of control when something does not go their way? I am in no way racist, but blacks act like the world owes them.


This bit is racist because of the last two lines, not because it includes the word "animals". Even the first sentence alone wouldn't be racist as it would be describing the action of rioting with no mention of the race of the rioters.


Plus, you included the word "thug" under racist words, even though that word is a Hindi loan-word that has no actual racial component but rather describes a type of criminal.


Alex wrote:
I'm kind of shocked to hear people defending poster's right to say things like that without being called out as racist or policing how it's done.


You have had it explained to you in detail that that is not the issue.


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magz
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26 Aug 2020, 1:22 pm

Quote:
These rioters are nothing but wild animals. They need to be shot for setting buildings and vehicles on fire and for looting. Just because they don't agree with the outcome of a verdict does not give them the right to be dumb asses. Why do black people act so out of control when something does not go their way? I am in no way racist, but blacks act like the world owes them.
Calling any human beings "nothing but wild animals" that "need to be shot" is absolutely unacceptable in any context, including completely non-racial.


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Wolfram87
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26 Aug 2020, 1:25 pm

Agreed, but not because of the word "animal" (rather more concerned about the shooting bit).

EDIT: I mean, yes describing people as animals is unacceptable, but not racist.


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Last edited by Wolfram87 on 26 Aug 2020, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.