Sometimes I'm scared to post in PPR

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Joe90
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19 May 2021, 8:38 pm

I have a burning question that's related to PPR-type of discussions but I'm afraid to post it in case I get attacked and called a racist and get a warning from a mod, no matter how politically correct I try to word my post as not to offend anyone. Sometimes questions have to be asked out of curiosity and aren't always intended to be racist or offensive in any other way. But I know that PPR-related topics seems to be such a sensitive subject among people here (well, anywhere really but I seem to notice it here more than on Facebook).

I don't like being called racist when I'm just asking a question. It's sometimes how you learn, by asking. Should I be made to feel this scared to post an innocent question on a forum I've been a well-respected member of for 11 years? I would say the question I want to ask here but I'm even scared to do that.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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19 May 2021, 8:47 pm

PPR can certainly be a pretty intense and sometimes rough neighborhood, no doubt about that.


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19 May 2021, 8:49 pm

Go ahead and ask.

If the question sounds racist you might get called racist. You can get offended or you can listen to why the criticism is being received. If it's reasonable, try to learn from it. If it's not, you don't have to actually absorb it.

Sometimes the premise one asks a question from is racist. If that's the case you still need to ask the question to understand what's problematic with the premise.

If your history is generally clear and the question isn't so obviously beyond the pale as to be indefensible you'll probably be fine. How can one understand the boundaries if one never tests them?

Are you really that bothered by being called racist, or is it more that you're worried the criticism might actually be true in this context? All of us have moments of sounding bigoted, sometimes they're because of blind spots. We often need others to point these blindspots out.

You're not a poster with a reputation for trolling PPR with bigoted posts, you'll probably be fine. People are sometimes harsh and often blunt, but being disagreed with firmly or even insulted doesn't mean much in the long run.


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19 May 2021, 9:31 pm

My question isn't racist, but others might accuse me of being racist because of how easily the word gets thrown around these days. I don't like being called a racist when I'm not. I don't know how so many people have the guts to post in PPR so frequently.

I live in Essex in the UK, and we are not racist people here but we aren't very politically correct. To us, racism means treating someone unfairly because of their colour skin or making fun of people because of their colour skin, stuff like that. But my question isn't either of those, but I still have a feeling I'm going to be personally attacked and wishing I had never created the thread to begin with. I tend to feel humiliated when being attacked on the internet just by asking a harmless question. I get angry and want to put it right, which results in more arguments and the thread ends up getting locked without me getting an answer to my question.


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19 May 2021, 9:41 pm

Joe90 wrote:
My question isn't racist, but others might accuse me of being racist because of how easily the word gets thrown around these days. I don't like being called a racist when I'm not. I don't know how so many people have the guts to post in PPR so frequently.

I live in Essex in the UK, and we are not racist people here but we aren't very politically correct. To us, racism means treating someone unfairly because of their colour skin or making fun of people because of their colour skin, stuff like that. But my question isn't either of those, but I still have a feeling I'm going to be personally attacked and wishing I had never created the thread to begin with. I tend to feel humiliated when being attacked on the internet just by asking a harmless question. I get angry and want to put it right, which results in more arguments and the thread ends up getting locked without me getting an answer to my question.


Well, if you redefine racism to avoid including some things that fall under the definition you'll find that people point this out.

Holding an ignorantly racist opinion doesn't make one a bad person but it does hurt when people point it out, especially if you don't understand why it's being described as such or when the person doing it is overzealous in pointing it out.

If you know there's a reasonable likelihood of it seeming racist that might be because you know it's not unreasonable that it might seem that way even if you're certain that your intention isn't such. Not understanding every instance something gets called racist isn't the same as the word being used excessively. Often that talking point gets trotted out to discredit valid criticism and invalidate those speaking it.

You're well-liked and not known for being racist so it's not like people would be predisposed to assume that's your motive in asking an innocent question.


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20 May 2021, 4:40 am

Joe90 wrote:
I have a burning question that's related to PPR-type of discussions but I'm afraid to post it in case I get attacked and called a racist and get a warning from a mod, no matter how politically correct I try to word my post as not to offend anyone. Sometimes questions have to be asked out of curiosity and aren't always intended to be racist or offensive in any other way. But I know that PPR-related topics seems to be such a sensitive subject among people here (well, anywhere really but I seem to notice it here more than on Facebook).

I don't like being called racist when I'm just asking a question. It's sometimes how you learn, by asking. Should I be made to feel this scared to post an innocent question on a forum I've been a well-respected member of for 11 years? I would say the question I want to ask here but I'm even scared to do that.


The problem is not you. It is the dominant culture in PPR, imo.

There is very little tolerance in that forum, and often it is a case of some people wanting to dominate others.
The "race card" is simply a tool used to keep others off-balance and defensive.
It is cheap and anti-intellectual.

The thing I found disappointing there, is that the majority of people aren't interested in a discussion. It is almost all about debating, point scoring, one-upmanship.

One problem in PPR is it is uber dominated by those embracing the left of politics, in my experience.
Not only that, there is often a pile-on to boot.

Another feature of PPR, when presenting an article, is people dismissing what is said because they don't like the source. Rather than listening to the argument, in the article, some people are already primed to disagree with whatever is presented.

And then there is the binary mindset.
I find it exceptionally unhelpful when people simplify/distil their position into black and white positions along partisan lines.
I actually find hyperpartisanship embarrassing since it is an anathema to individualism.

Initially, I was under the impression that the autistic community was known as being unique individuals who think in unique ways. "Trying to organise a box of cats" sort of thing. Well, I no longer vigorously embrace that concept.

Perhaps the culture in PPR is unusual and not representative of the autistic community. I suspect this is the case.

There have been volumes discussing the problems of the PPR forum. It is well known, by members of WP that have been here for some time, that PPR in particular, is a rather toxic environment. I suggest, if you don't have a hazmat suit, you don't venture there.
I have basically given up trying to have a civil discussion there, so I rarely offer my political opinions, nowadays. 8)


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20 May 2021, 9:15 am

Joe90 wrote:
I have a burning question that's related to PPR-type of discussions but I'm afraid to post it in case I get attacked and called a racist and get a warning from a mod, no matter how politically correct I try to word my post as not to offend anyone. Sometimes questions have to be asked out of curiosity and aren't always intended to be racist or offensive in any other way. But I know that PPR-related topics seems to be such a sensitive subject among people here (well, anywhere really but I seem to notice it here more than on Facebook).

I don't like being called racist when I'm just asking a question. It's sometimes how you learn, by asking. Should I be made to feel this scared to post an innocent question on a forum I've been a well-respected member of for 11 years? I would say the question I want to ask here but I'm even scared to do that.


Unfortunately, what should theoretically be an area that allows discussions such as you seem interested in, instead seems full of people more inclined to push certain agendas than to engage in honest discussions.

I'd love to be able to tell you that people there would explain the reason they interpret something posted there as being (in their opinion) racist, but for the most part even taking a position that people should be judged individually based on their character, rather than grouped together and judged based on their collective ancestry, tends to leads to accusations of "racist" hurled at the person making the statement, with no explanation offered to explain what the accuser believed was racist about the statement. The reflexive responce of many there is to attack the person, rather than engage in a discussion about the subject of the post to explain what they disagree with, which indicates an inability to defend their position, instead relying on "shaming" those they disagree with to divert others from noting this...

If you're after an answer to a specific question, seeking individual members here who you believe may be receptive to a discussion and PM'ing them may be your best option - Rather than encountering the mob (and their appologists) who reflexively respond with assertions of "racism" (or any other "...ism") to anything which they disagree with (but are unable to articulate any form of justification for the claim).

The fact that such a long-standing member of the community is afraid to post an honest question seeking information in the forum is also enlightening, regarding the apparent direction the site has taken (as well as how welcoming it would appear to potential new members).


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20 May 2021, 9:22 am

Pepe wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I have a burning question that's related to PPR-type of discussions but I'm afraid to post it in case I get attacked and called a racist and get a warning from a mod, no matter how politically correct I try to word my post as not to offend anyone. Sometimes questions have to be asked out of curiosity and aren't always intended to be racist or offensive in any other way. But I know that PPR-related topics seems to be such a sensitive subject among people here (well, anywhere really but I seem to notice it here more than on Facebook).

I don't like being called racist when I'm just asking a question. It's sometimes how you learn, by asking. Should I be made to feel this scared to post an innocent question on a forum I've been a well-respected member of for 11 years? I would say the question I want to ask here but I'm even scared to do that.


The problem is not you. It is the dominant culture in PPR, imo.

There is very little tolerance in that forum, and often it is a case of some people wanting to dominate others.
The "race card" is simply a tool used to keep others off-balance and defensive.
It is cheap and anti-intellectual.

The thing I found disappointing there, is that the majority of people aren't interested in a discussion. It is almost all about debating, point scoring, one-upmanship.

One problem in PPR is it is uber dominated by those embracing the left of politics, in my experience.
Not only that, there is often a pile-on to boot.

Another feature of PPR, when presenting an article, is people dismissing what is said because they don't like the source. Rather than listening to the argument, in the article, some people are already primed to disagree with whatever is presented.

And then there is the binary mindset.
I find it exceptionally unhelpful when people simplify/distil their position into black and white positions along partisan lines.
I actually find hyperpartisanship embarrassing since it is an anathema to individualism.

Initially, I was under the impression that the autistic community was known as being unique individuals who think in unique ways. "Trying to organise a box of cats" sort of thing. Well, I no longer vigorously embrace that concept.

Perhaps the culture in PPR is unusual and not representative of the autistic community. I suspect this is the case.

There have been volumes discussing the problems of the PPR forum. It is well known, by members of WP that have been here for some time, that PPR in particular, is a rather toxic environment. I suggest, if you don't have a hazmat suit, you don't venture there.
I have basically given up trying to have a civil discussion there, so I rarely offer my political opinions, nowadays. 8)

Sadly, this appears to be an accurate observation regarding that portion of the site.


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20 May 2021, 12:19 pm

No one goes around calling people racist for no reason and there is a difference between telling someone what they say is racist than calling them racist.

People who are afraid they will be called racist is a example of white fragility. You can make a racist statement without being racist because you are misinformed or you are naïve about the other culture so you are culturally unaware. For example, someone can make a policy and have it be a one size fits all policy but not realize that policy discriminates against Native Americans because of their culture. Is that part racist, yes but not intentionally because of ignorance.

And yes there will be those who will do the reverse racism thing by calling you racist when you call out racism or talk about racist issues the USA is dealing with or your nation but I would just ignore them. They are the ones being fragile.


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20 May 2021, 5:27 pm

Joe90 wrote:
My question isn't racist, but others might accuse me of being racist because of how easily the word gets thrown around these days. I don't like being called a racist when I'm not. I don't know how so many people have the guts to post in PPR so frequently.

I live in Essex in the UK, and we are not racist people here but we aren't very politically correct. To us, racism means treating someone unfairly because of their colour skin or making fun of people because of their colour skin, stuff like that. But my question isn't either of those, but I still have a feeling I'm going to be personally attacked and wishing I had never created the thread to begin with. I tend to feel humiliated when being attacked on the internet just by asking a harmless question. I get angry and want to put it right, which results in more arguments and the thread ends up getting locked without me getting an answer to my question.


PM me if you want. I will try to answer it. And give me reactions to the question.



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20 May 2021, 5:37 pm

League_Girl wrote:
No one goes around calling people racist for no reason and there is a difference between telling someone what they say is racist than calling them racist.


Firstly, if someone says that a POV is racist, that person needs to back up that claim with a rational argument.
This requirement was discussed in depth with magz some time ago.

Secondly, there have been many examples where people have been misrepresented as being racist.

Thirdly, if what someone is saying is deemed racist by another, that suggests the person is embracing a certain concept that has racist affinities, in the mind of the accuser.
"You walk like a racist, and quack like a racist, therefore, you must be a racist", is the obvious inference.
BTW, just saying someone has racist views doesn't make it so. Refer to my first point.

Fourthly, simplifying a position into a binary to determine who is and who isn't espousing a racist position, is a sign of limited intellectual capacity or deliberate hyperpartisan bias.

Fifthly, following a narrative that is inherently fallacious and presenting a position as beyond dispute is deceptive and is bereft of integrity. It is the lazy man's approach that often is emboldened by a groupthink mentality.

League_Girl wrote:
People who are afraid they will be called racist is a example of white fragility.


You have stated, in the past, you have no problem being called a racist. That is your entitlement.
Most people find it extremely offensive, especially when the race card is used as a means of character assassination, a power play and intended as a method of stifling discussion.
Personally speaking, apparent sanctimony, self-righteousness and virtue-signalling is more than a little obnoxious. I am entitled to be offended by this, and no one is in a position to tell me differently.

League_Girl wrote:
You can make a racist statement without being racist because you are misinformed or you are naïve about the other culture so you are culturally unaware.


And then there are situations where a person is intentionally or unintentionally misrepresented.
There is no valid binary here. There is no "you are right and all others who disagree with you are wrong".

League_Girl wrote:
For example, someone can make a policy and have it be a one size fits all policy but not realize that policy discriminates against Native Americans because of their culture. Is that part racist, yes but not intentionally because of ignorance.


And then you have the absurdity of a narrative that promulgates the concept of collective guilt, as an example, to service a political agenda. If you disagree with this nonsense, you are labelled a racist.

League_Girl wrote:
And yes there will be those who will do the reverse racism thing by calling you racist when you call out racism or talk about racist issues the USA is dealing with or your nation but I would just ignore them. They are the ones being fragile.


I can't recall seeing anyone claim that the person who is calling someone a racist, is a racist in return. What you have suggested here is has no logical foundation, imo.
On the contrary, I would claim the person lacks insight, intellectual acuity, or is showing signs of hyperpartisanship.


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And one more thing,


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20 May 2021, 6:20 pm

I think the perception of being called racist on this site is more than it actuality of it occurring, much more.

Last August the guidelines of this site changed. Calling somebody "racist" is is now not considered a personal attack and thus allowable. The change caused considerable disagreement, 18 pages of it. I was a main critic of the new guidelines and rigorously disagree with them. I disagreed with it so much I was seriously considering quitting WP. But I said to myself don't make a decision to quit a place that has meant so much to me for seven years rashly, let my anger and hurt calm down. Obviously, I am still here as is the guideline. I decided to put some faith in this group and by the end of the thread most had agreed we would not actually call each other racist but say "you said a racist thing"

The above rigamarole is to demonstrate since then I have been sensitive or as League_Girl put it "fragile" to occurrences of accusations of racism on this site. It has rarely happened, not only "you are a racist" but not even, "you said a racist thing".
Plenty of this way of thinking is racist, the roots of this way of thinking is racist, the source is racist. That type of thing is not personal and well within bounds for a political section.


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20 May 2021, 6:41 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think the perception of being called racist on this site is more than it actuality of it occurring, much more.

Last August the guidelines of this site changed. Calling somebody "racist" is is now not considered a personal attack and thus allowable. The change caused considerable disagreement, 18 pages of it. I was a main critic of the new guidelines and rigorously disagree with them. I disagreed with it so much I was seriously considering quitting WP. But I said to myself don't make a decision to quit a place that has meant so much to me for seven years rashly, let my anger and hurt calm down. Obviously, I am still here as is the guideline. I decided to put some faith in this group and by the end of the thread most had agreed we would not actually call each other racist but say "you said a racist thing"

The above rigamarole is to demonstrate since then I have been sensitive or as League_Girl put it "fragile" to occurrences of accusations of racism on this site. It has rarely happened, not only "you are a racist" but not even, "you said a racist thing".
Plenty of this way of thinking is racist, the roots of this way of thinking is racist, the source is racist. That type of thing is not personal and well within bounds for a political section.


I have been on the receiving end of being unjustifiably called a racist, big time.
I have pretty much given up posting opinions in PPR as a result.

You have to consider the intention of people.
Some are determined to misrepresent a situation and I don't think anyone can justify this.

As mention above, magz made the point that if someone was going to be called a racist, or someone who holds racist views, the accuser needs to provide a ration argument for that comment.
How can anyone argue against this?

Yes, most people are offended by being labelled a racist if they don't embrace inequality.
It is especially ironic when that accusation is thrown around on an autism website at the drop of a hat. 8)


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Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


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20 May 2021, 6:42 pm

I'm desperately curious to know what the question is now.


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20 May 2021, 7:30 pm

Mikah wrote:
I'm desperately curious to know what the question is now.


Same.


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20 May 2021, 8:44 pm

Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think the perception of being called racist on this site is more than it actuality of it occurring, much more.

Last August the guidelines of this site changed. Calling somebody "racist" is is now not considered a personal attack and thus allowable. The change caused considerable disagreement, 18 pages of it. I was a main critic of the new guidelines and rigorously disagree with them. I disagreed with it so much I was seriously considering quitting WP. But I said to myself don't make a decision to quit a place that has meant so much to me for seven years rashly, let my anger and hurt calm down. Obviously, I am still here as is the guideline. I decided to put some faith in this group and by the end of the thread most had agreed we would not actually call each other racist but say "you said a racist thing"

The above rigamarole is to demonstrate since then I have been sensitive or as League_Girl put it "fragile" to occurrences of accusations of racism on this site. It has rarely happened, not only "you are a racist" but not even, "you said a racist thing".
Plenty of this way of thinking is racist, the roots of this way of thinking is racist, the source is racist. That type of thing is not personal and well within bounds for a political section.


I have been on the receiving end of being unjustifiably called a racist, big time.
I have pretty much given up posting opinions in PPR as a result.

You have to consider the intention of people.
Some are determined to misrepresent a situation and I don't think anyone can justify this.

As mention above, magz made the point that if someone was going to be called a racist, or someone who holds racist views, the accuser needs to provide a ration argument for that comment.
How can anyone argue against this?

Yes, most people are offended by being labelled a racist if they don't embrace inequality.
It is especially ironic when that accusation is thrown around on an autism website at the drop of a hat. 8)

Unless they literally say "you are a racist" or something like that you can only infer their intention.


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