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TwilightPrincess
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29 Nov 2023, 12:48 am

What is the protocol for TWs on WP or for netiquette in general? I don’t mean for this to be a debate or a critique. I was just curious. I don’t use social media besides WP or certain subreddits when I’m not around.

Sorry if this was asked before or recently and I missed it.


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IsabellaLinton
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29 Nov 2023, 12:57 am

I was told there was no protocol, even for very insensitive or triggering thread titles.


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TwilightPrincess
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29 Nov 2023, 1:04 am

Do you know what it was like on any other platforms? I really appreciate it when people use them when content could be especially triggering for some.


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IsabellaLinton
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29 Nov 2023, 1:22 am

My autistic women's group uses content and trigger warnings for anything potentially triggering. Their format is:

(for example)


TW: Mention of SA, depression, body shaming, self-harm, occasional suicidal thoughts

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
,
,
,

Post: _____________________ etc.


The dots are so people can read the trigger warning without their eye catching any of the content below it. The idea is to scroll away.

Of course we all have different triggers but there are certain ones like SA, eating disorders, gaslighting, and mental health which are considered standard.

Others which might be offensive for whatever reason are given content warnings.

Examples of CW might be - Divorce, Bereavement, Financial Struggles, Phobias


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TwilightPrincess
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29 Nov 2023, 1:37 am

^ That sounds really good!

I like that we can put stuff in spoilers here so people would be less likely to see something accidentally.

Some people use TWs here which I appreciate. It’s hard when triggers comes into view when you aren’t expecting them at all. As you say, sometimes people are triggered by unusual things, but using TWs with the obvious ones makes sense.


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Cornflake
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29 Nov 2023, 9:52 am

There's no formal definition on WP of how a trigger/content warning should be flagged, although "[TW] Thread title here" is commonly used and that seems Ok to me.
I don't know how it's done elsewhere, though.

I like the idea of hiding the content behind spoiler tags which prevents any of it from being seen accidentally, and seems cleaner than an otherwise workable series of dots pushing the content out of the initial view. That would be useful if there was no other way of stopping content from being immediately visible.

Maybe we should adopt [TW] Thread title here (or [CW]), with a line or two in the post describing the content hidden by the spoiler as required (say, Mention of SA, depression, body shaming, self-harm, occasional suicidal thoughts), followed by the spoiler itself.
This short description could be a useful solution to the limitation of the relatively short topic titles allowed.


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IsabellaLinton
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29 Nov 2023, 10:40 am

I like that too.

Good idea, CF.

I think it's less cluttery than having the dots.


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Double Retired
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03 Dec 2023, 2:39 pm

:oops:

I am another person who does not use social media other than WP (and e-mail). For the benefit of the clueless less-experienced (such as myself), I hope there will also be clear, simple, unambiguous guidance on what constitutes a "trigger". Not just a definition of "trigger" but help in figuring out whether some post is a trigger.

Oh, I'm an Aspie. I'm sort of hoping the guidance will not assume I can foresee and understand other people's emotional responses. (Sometimes I can...but I can't recommend relying on it for anything important.)


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TwilightPrincess
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04 Dec 2023, 3:04 pm

Some things that I think should be given a trigger warning: mention or discussion of abuse of adults or children in its various forms (especially SA and PA), suicide, torture, eating disorders, and self-harm - stuff that could trigger PTSD symptoms or a relapse. I think TWs are an especially good idea when a member wouldn’t know there was triggering content in a thread based on the title or if a post is slightly off-topic. Otherwise, a member could be confronted by something unexpectedly and be triggered because they wouldn’t know to just avoid that discussion.


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IsabellaLinton
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05 Dec 2023, 11:00 am

I also recommend people refrain from judging others' credibility about sexual assault, or topics related to their body and its function.

One of the worst triggers I experience is when people make light of SA, treat it like a joke, or find discussion of sexual assault recovery to be arousing in some sort of F'ed up way.

I don't think trigger warnings would help in those cases.

Rather, disparaging comments shouldn't be made at all.

It's OK for a person to question for their own understanding or to offer support, but doubting or teasing people about their experiences shouldn't be allowed here, period.


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MatchboxVagabond
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05 Dec 2023, 11:10 am

Cornflake wrote:
There's no formal definition on WP of how a trigger/content warning should be flagged, although "[TW] Thread title here" is commonly used and that seems Ok to me.
I don't know how it's done elsewhere, though.

I like the idea of hiding the content behind spoiler tags which prevents any of it from being seen accidentally, and seems cleaner than an otherwise workable series of dots pushing the content out of the initial view. That would be useful if there was no other way of stopping content from being immediately visible.

Maybe we should adopt [TW] Thread title here (or [CW]), with a line or two in the post describing the content hidden by the spoiler as required (say, Mention of SA, depression, body shaming, self-harm, occasional suicidal thoughts), followed by the spoiler itself.
This short description could be a useful solution to the limitation of the relatively short topic titles allowed.

IMHO, trigger warnings really only make sense if the content doesn't fit within both the topic of the subforum and the thread title. There's no point in trigger warning on a post dealing with self-harm in a thread where that's a reasonable expectation of content in the thread and it's appropriate to the subforum. (Although, the subforum should be less of a concern if people are posting these things where they belong and the posts that violate the subforum policy are brought to mod attention and dealt with)

That being said, I do think that spoiler tagsa re a nice compromise for times when it's not clear whether or not the content is going to be expected or if it needs to go into more detail than you'd normally expect.

TW were one of those things that weren't around when I was younger and while they come from a well-intended place, the reality is that the world doesn't come with such safe guards against being triggered. (Whether or not it should is a different matter entirely)



MatchboxVagabond
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05 Dec 2023, 11:15 am

Double Retired wrote:
:oops:

I am another person who does not use social media other than WP (and e-mail). For the benefit of the clueless less-experienced (such as myself), I hope there will also be clear, simple, unambiguous guidance on what constitutes a "trigger". Not just a definition of "trigger" but help in figuring out whether some post is a trigger.

Oh, I'm an Aspie. I'm sort of hoping the guidance will not assume I can foresee and understand other people's emotional responses. (Sometimes I can...but I can't recommend relying on it for anything important.)

There isn't and that's part of the problem. Obvious things like self-harm and sexual abuse are pretty clear about. But, there's all sorts of things that trigger people where you'd have no reasonable way of knowing. For example, if abuse involved a man dressed like Santa, there's the possibility that any talk of that could be triggering and I'd be very surprised if there isn't anybody out there that's had to work through that.

I personally tend to stick to the guidelines about whether or not it's consistent with the forum, subforum and thread and whether it's something that's appropriate for children. Usually that gets close enough that there isn't much worry. But, it's a minefield for everybody involved.



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05 Dec 2023, 11:15 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I also recommend people refrain from judging others' credibility about sexual assault, or topics related to their body and its function.

One of the worst triggers I experience is when people make light of SA, treat it like a joke, or find discussion of sexual assault recovery to be arousing in some sort of F'ed up way.

I don't think trigger warnings would help in those cases.

Rather, disparaging comments shouldn't be made at all.

It's OK for a person to question for their own understanding or to offer support, but doubting or teasing people about their experiences shouldn't be allowed here, period.

Something else that people need to avoid doing is bringing up a member's trauma. Just because I've talked about stuff openly doesn't mean that it's fair game in any conversation. I don't always want to talk or think about it. It's especially distasteful when people bring it up to make a point. Trigger warnings wouldn't help with that. In any case, unless I talk about it, it's not an appropriate topic to mention or discuss.

Jokes about SA or trauma should never be made. They aren't even funny.


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TwilightPrincess
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05 Dec 2023, 11:20 am

MatchboxVagabond wrote:
TW were one of those things that weren't around when I was younger and while they come from a well-intended place, the reality is that the world doesn't come with such safe guards against being triggered. (Whether or not it should is a different matter entirely)
WP is not a microcosm of the world. It's a support forum with specific rules and guidelines in place - some of which are meant to help those in protected groups.


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IsabellaLinton
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05 Dec 2023, 11:36 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Something else that people need to avoid doing is bringing up a member's trauma. Just because I've talked about stuff openly doesn't mean that it's fair game in any conversation. I don't always want to talk or think about it. It's especially distasteful when people bring it up to make a point. Trigger warnings wouldn't help with that. In any case, unless I talk about it, it's not an appropriate topic to mention or discuss.



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MatchboxVagabond
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05 Dec 2023, 12:14 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
SNIP
Something else that people need to avoid doing is bringing up a member's trauma. Just because I've talked about stuff openly doesn't mean that it's fair game in any conversation. I don't always want to talk or think about it. It's especially distasteful when people bring it up to make a point. Trigger warnings wouldn't help with that. In any case, unless I talk about it, it's not an appropriate topic to mention or discuss.

Jokes about SA or trauma should never be made. They aren't even funny.


This I agree with 100%, that ought to be just basic decency and it should be pretty clear when somebody is stepping over that line.
TwilightPrincess wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
TW were one of those things that weren't around when I was younger and while they come from a well-intended place, the reality is that the world doesn't come with such safe guards against being triggered. (Whether or not it should is a different matter entirely)
WP is not a microcosm of the world. It's a support forum with specific rules and guidelines in place - some of which are meant to help those in protected groups.

Since you asked, I have no issue with the intention, but it is worth recognizing that trigger warnings don't reliably do anything that segragating out certain topics into their own subforums and banning some topics doesn't do.

I remain commited to the notion that trigger warnings only make sense for content that adheres to the policies of the particular subform to which it is posted and if the comment is in some fashion not something that people seeing the forum, subform and topic title would expect to see.

Now, if the forum had the ability to filter out topics or comments based on the warning, that may be a bit different, but the software here is fairly old and shy of people making their own greasemonkey script to do that, it's not going to happen.

Anything beyond that is likely to fail miserably.

And that's more or less all I've got to say on that, I don't anticipate changing my opinion anytime soon.