Are all degrees made equal?

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Amid news of all the wild celebrations nationwide in response to those achieving their desired A-Level grades and securing a place at their chosen higher education establishment (be it a University, College or Specialist School) and fellow students graduating with BSc's, BA's, PGC's MSc's and PhD's, I have began to think, are all degrees made equal? It is reasonable to assume that a degree from a Cambridge or Harvard will carry more weight with employers and be of superior quality to those from Bangor or Walden University, hence I shall make a comparison of degree courses offered at a single institution, Cardiff University.

Cardiff University is part of the UK's Russell Group of Research led Institutions (the de facto Ivy League for the UK), and boasts world leading research in the areas of Engineering, Neurophysiology, Anatomy, telecommunications, Medicine, Pharmacology, Physics, Biochemisty, Ecology and Genetics. With a 94% graduate employment rate, it is targeted by employers such as IBM, Airbus, Fujitsu, Amazon, Apple, Nestle and BAE. Along with drawing in internationally recognised academic and research staff, Cardiff has two Nobel laureates currently employed.

Course 1: BA English Literature (Information for course from Prospectus)
Year 1: A purposeful introduction to the study of English Literature, critical thinking and essay writing
Year 2 & 3: A stimulating range of modules, from Old English to Creative Writing

From talking to current undergraduates I have been informed that the combined lecture/seminar time for a BA in English tends not to exceed 10 hours per week. The small number of tuition hours is to allow students ample time for background reading and research into their particular topic, and time for the completion of written coursework, essays and assessments. Modules include the evolution of written English in Ireland, Scotland, America and India, and the connection of English literature to the film industry, history, music and art.

Course 2: BSc Optometry
Year 1: This is an exciting year, with modules providing basic-level teaching and learning opportunities in a variety of subjects including, for example: Cells and Systems, Optics and Visual Optics, Anatomy and Physiology, Dispensing, and Clinical Procedures.
Year 2: The second year develops naturally from the first year to provide knowledge more directly related to the eye and visual system. The integration of scientific and clinical teaching provides students with a greater understanding of the mechanisms and processes that are taking place in the eye and visual system, and in the design and use of instrumentation to assess visual function and health.
Year 3: Clinical methods and experiences are developed throughout the year towards full professional level. A high proportion of the student week is spent working with patients in the clinics. These clinics provide professional services to the general public
in routine refraction, contact lenses, low vision, paediatric and special assessment, and dispensing.

Between lectures, tutorials and clinics, BSc Optometry students shall spend anything between 15-20 (sometimes more) hours per week within the school. This is not inclusive of background reading, coursework, projects or private clinic practice. Areas covered during the degree include Neurophysiology, Anatomy, Clinical Practice and Law, Pharmacology, Optics, Ocular Pathology and Clinical Skills.

It is clear to see that a course that deals with creative writing, analysis of syntax, historical texts and linguistics is not as intensive as a course that that deals with anything from Neurobiology to Clinical Skills to Anatomy to Pharmacology, nor does it require such a wide breadth of knowledge.

So hence I postulate the question to the rest of the WP community: Are all degrees made equal?

I really have to disagree that it is clear. I think that the breadth of knowledge can be just as wide, sometimes wider, it's just a different area of knowledge. Because if you're studying historical texts -which with English you very often are - you need to learn the historical context, you need to understand cultural and philosophical influences. You need to be able to recognise absurd amounts of different writing styles and be able to track their evolution, and influence from Art, and more recently Film. So, English students generally should be reading - I won't claim that they are - between 5-7 books a week. Also, to improve your writing, if you're taking that sort of course, then you need be learning lots of things so your characters can have diverse interests and knowledge.

With for example you gave for Optometry, they clearly state what you will be learning.

So are all degrees created equal? Well, not really, because their subject matter isn't comparable. But I would argue that the institution you got your degree from has more baring on the quality than the subject you took. For example an English degree from UCL (currently best for English if you believe the guardian) would be regarded as superior to a Law degree from Winchester (currently bottom for that subject if you believe the guardian). But that's only true if both the degree are say, 2:1. If the Law degree from Winchester was 1:1 and the English degree from UCL was a 3:1. Well, obviously the Law degree would be better thought of.

But all degrees are difficult, and the attitude that because you're doing a science based subject you're automatically doing something harder and more worth while than an art or humanities based subject just irritates me so much. There are an absurd amount of factors to even attempt to measure whether or not one degree is better or more than another, and a lot of the factors are factors depending on your own personal beliefs and feelings about a subject.

I personally find science based courses the easiest. I would die in history and language based classes! What makes a degree valued is supply and demand, not the difficulty because difficulty really depends on the individual taking the class. Every time someone comments that my science classes must be so hard, I can't help but laugh because to me it's what I struggle with the least. History can be just as intense and difficult, to me it's a bunch of random dates and names that I can't keep strait. But those degrees tend to be worth less jut because not many people need to hire a historian.

The question being postulated is not one asking if a degree is better than another. The question is do all degrees require the same level of commitment and work to be awarded? I do not deny that all degrees are difficult, but the question must be asked does a degree in Medicine or Dentistry carry the same level of difficulty as Philosophy or Ancient History? What proportion of Medical Students would attain a 2:1 in History and vice versa? You can also guarantee the percentage of History students with part time jobs is significantly higher than those studying medicine. Can this be attributed to anything other than the disparity in degree workload?

But if we are truly to use an objective measure of degree worth, we should look no further than the point made by another used on this topic:



When determining the value of products within a market, the following criteria are accepted as true laws:
1. Increased demand & stable supply -> higher price
2. Decreased demand & stable supply -> lower price
3. Increased supply & stable demand -> lower price
4. Decreased supply & stable demand -> higher price

Henceforth we could objectively degree value on prospective employment post university. For students with BA's, this is lower than those with BSc's. This would suggest that the value of a BSc is indeed higher than that of a BA. Although these numbers can be skewed as those with B.Eng typically have high unemployment rates.

A more logical objective method of assessing degree value would be on employment rate in industry related to the degree, English graduates becoming English teachers or writers, Music graduates becoming Musicians etc. It is well known that a larger proportion of graduates with BA's work in unrelated employment. There are many barmen, shelf stacker's and taxi drivers with degrees in Philosophy, but not as many with Chemistry or Psychology.

This of course then raises the question, is their a correlation between degree difficulty (a combination of subject and institution) with employment rates in related industry?

All degrees are NOT created equal. Someone with a BA in art history will have a much, much more difficult time finding a job than someone with a BS in mechanical engineering. It's all about what skills you bring to the work force, and whether there are jobs that require those skills. Also in terms of time spent on a degree there are a huge gaps as well. I know tons of people majoring in business or English who spend maybe 20-25hrs a week on school-related things (that includes studying, homework, and going to classes). On the contrary, in engineering degrees (of which I have 1 already and working on another now) it isn't at all uncommon at all to spend 60+ hours a week on the same things. And when you start looking at medicine...pre-med courses typically aren't too hard, but medical school itself is downright insane. They put you through some pretty inhumane stuff in there lol. Dentistry isn't quite as hard or competitive as medical school but it is still challenging for sure, and requires you to put in huge amounts of work. I've had a pretty broad range of education so I have a fairly good basis for comparison.

Now when you look at schools I find that the difference is much less defined...if you get the same degree from Yale or a state college, I find they typically hold similar weights as long as both are fully accredited and respected institutions. Ivy league schools are more well-known and respected, but not necessarily any better education-wise.

As an aside, I see many people who are going to college for no reason other than to get a degree, any degree, as though it is some magical piece of paper that lets you accomplish all of your dreams. But many of them don't think through what that degree will actually allow them to do once they graduate, or how much value it will hold in the work force. I see stories all the time on yahoo news about these people who go to school for like english literature degrees and rack up 50k+ in student loans, then end up working in fast food. This is an issue close to my heart because something similar happened to my best friend when he graduated.

This is very true. A generation ago, anyone with a bachelors degree would walk straight into a job, particularly middle management. The number of available graduate jobs across a diverse range of occupations far exceeded the number of graduates, hence employment was virtually guaranteed. In more recent years this has changed dramatically as graduate numbers have rapidly increased to a point to which they have exceeded the available jobs. Hence competition for employment has also increased.

I know many students who went to university just for the lifestyle., the degree was a secondary concern. 3 years of partying & drinking away from home. It is a common inside joke is that the only difference between being unemployed and a student is that your parents are proud of you being a student.

On BBC news today it mentioned that this year is the first time in over 20 years that 5 days after results, there are vacant spots for undergraduate degrees at Cardiff University, namely being humanities subjects (History, English & Business Studies). I guess now that course fees have nearly tripled students are voting with their feet. I read yesterday in the guardian that the subjects that suffered the biggest drop in applicants due to the fee rise were the arts & humanities.