Anyone held a leadership position? How was that?

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CyclopsSummers
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27 Nov 2013, 2:00 pm

So, I was wondering if anyone on this forum has had experience of working in a leadership position. This can be anything from being a team leader to a floor manager to a department manager all the way to the highest echelons of company hierarchy.

I'm mostly asking this because I myself was considering going for a fairly simple training course that would give me the qualifications for team leader at a cleaning company. Before, I had not considered any kind of leadership position, preferring to be someone who executes the work and not sure if I could handle the responsibility of being a team leader. On rare occasions on separate workplaces, I've been assigned tasks where I was in a position of limited authority, and I handled myself fairly well.

Though I'm mainly curious about the experiences of folks on the spectrum, feedback from non-autistic members is also very welcome. I'm wondering about how you guys handled the responsibility, and perhaps most importantly how you related to the employers you had 'under your wing' so to speak.


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Thelibrarian
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27 Nov 2013, 2:53 pm

I'm in my fifteenth year of running a nonprofit--a public library.

Being the boss is the only way to go in my opinion. My big problem in prior jobs was getting along with my coworkers. Now it is the responsibility of those around me to get along with me, although I go out of my way to treat everybody fairly. Other advantages are higher pay and more prestige.

The downside for many aspies would be trying to keep up with the thousand details that go with administration, especially with executive functioning issues. I have an assistant who is very good with that kind of thing so I can concentrate on the bigger picture.



Willard
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27 Nov 2013, 3:18 pm

I've had several management positions, of different types. In some, I had to oversee small crews under varying circumstances. It usually went pretty smoothly, but there always seems to be at least one incurable slacker in every group. It's almost like a mathematical principle in physics. Every group of more than two has to have at least one useless goof off.

In several instances, I operated an entire department that was entirely under my purview and control, but some of the work had to be farmed out to other employees who were technically overseen by a different manager.

The problem I ran into as an Aspergian was that my social blindness made me especially vulnerable to duplicity - I sometimes failed to realize that certain people were intentionally undermining me behind my back to my superiors until it was too late and often found myself being manipulated by people up the food chain with no recourse or innate skills with which to handle the situation.

I also found myself frequently in a position of RESPONSIBILITY, with NO AUTHORITY - i.e., a scapegoat. That's when they give you the duties of seeing something done, but don't give you the title that would allow you to put real pressure on the idiots you're supposed to be governing, so your crew knows you can't fire them and ignores every order you give them and you catch all the flack when everything crashes and burns. It's a classic No-Win Situation. :roll:



thewhitrbbit
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27 Nov 2013, 3:29 pm

Firefighter
Emergency Medical Responder
Testing Site Supervisor
Staff Manager
Committee Chairman
President of the LEO club

Some of the keys I find

Make a decision carefully, but stick to it.

A good leader listens twice as much as he talks.

A good leader let's disagreements be heard, even if he ultimately doesn't follow them.



redrobin62
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27 Nov 2013, 3:38 pm

I was the head nurse at many facilities I've worked in, and I sucked at them all. My superiors always thought I was too weak on the aides and let them get away with murder.

I figured, well, the aides are adults so they should be responsible for their own actions.

As it turns out, quite a few of them were goof offs. They spent a lot of time on their cell phones, didn't do the work they were supposed to, etc.

They took advantage of the fact that I was so preoccupied with my own work that I didn't have time to supervise them.

Of course, I got it trouble for it. I hated the position, but I needed the money to pay the rent.



Thelibrarian
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27 Nov 2013, 3:45 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
I was the head nurse at many facilities I've worked in, and I sucked at them all. My superiors always thought I was too weak on the aides and let them get away with murder.

I figured, well, the aides are adults so they should be responsible for their own actions.

As it turns out, quite a few of them were goof offs. They spent a lot of time on their cell phones, didn't do the work they were supposed to, etc.

They took advantage of the fact that I was so preoccupied with my own work that I didn't have time to supervise them.

Of course, I got it trouble for it. I hated the position, but I needed the money to pay the rent.


One isn't really the boss without the power to hire and fire. With this power, it is only a matter of firing a few deadbeats and the rest will either quit or starting doing their jobs.

I will say in my almost-fifteen years at my current job, I've only had to run off one employee, though I didn't actually fire her. I'm very careful about who I hire, and they are all aware that while I appreciate good work, I would have no qualms about terminating any of them for non-performance. Nor is it being "mean". The job of the boss is to make sure everybody else does their job.



CyclopsSummers
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28 Nov 2013, 1:34 pm

Thanks very much for the feedback, you guys. This is really helpful!

It's interesting to read about the cons, I suppose it's easy to underestimate or misjudge when certain employees are trying to escape some of their responsibilities.
Sorry to read about your bad experiences, redrobin. That sounds like it blew big time.

@Willard: note you made on the incurable slackers/goof-offs. Do you figure that those employees would be lazy and slacking off on any job or is it more a question of them seeing other more skilled or more industrious employees and figuring "You know what? I can fork over some off my work to them", and you could theoretically fix the problem by placing yet more responsibility on them? I've seen differences in how the various members of a team will approach the same job.


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AutisticMillionaire
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28 Nov 2013, 6:04 pm

Tons of us aspies are in leadership roles, and of course you can learn to do it. I'm not sure how much a class might help, most of it's natural ability and ones personal expertise in a field but it can't hurt.

Look into the position you wish to fill, and think about problems that could arise with those you lead, learn the company lingo and products used in the field and take the mentality "This is my responsibility" always and never.."that aint my job" and you will find yourself the leader, and so will your boss.

I own a small company worth a few million dollars that I've grown over the last 10+ years, and a small side company as well. It's a family business, as we mostly employ family, and never had outside employees until recent history.

I have run a few non-profits connected to historical reenactment over the years though. So I'll cover mostly non-profits, and why they are psychologically more taxing in many ways.

Serious non-profits (of merit) I've lead.
Founder and former President to the Holy Curia of Ecclesiastical Reenactors (HCoER) -over 200 people nationally
Former President to the Shire of Silverkeep, sca inc. (Medieval Reenactment group) -over 45 people locally (non-profit)
President to the Outremer Society (Medieval Reenactment group) - Small (non-profit, currently on hold)
The Village of Tortosa Project- Over 40 members, we were going to build a small castle and village, but I shut down the project when I quit medievalism. Most likely made some people bitter towards me because some really wanted it.

Not serious non-profits (of non-merit) I've lead.
Former "Emperor of Montana" (Old Camarilla Vampire Larp) -Over 100 people locally (non-profit, no longer existent) Fun game, never learned the rules and ended up the grand poo-baa on chutzpah and charm. (I was also the groups "coordinator" or problem resolver of inter-group personal squabbles.) Proof Aspies can play social politics as well as any NT.

My experience is that running a for-profit enterprise, is completely different than running a non-profit for the reasons listed below. As president of a non-profit, I've had to talk to both television and newspaper reporters and other public speaking situations that I never have to worry about in my quiet nest at work. Work never made me run monthly meetings, or force social interaction outside of business. Work does not involve social phone calls, or small talk a non-profit requires and expects.

As a president of a local non-profit chapter, you are required to fill monthly reports to a national organization, and the collection of reports of your officers. Who are often unqualified volunteers...meaning you need to do multiple jobs like you would your own business. Just without pay or reward...

But unlike your own business you are forced to work (responsibility) without the ability to fire the bad workers (authority) or to do it your own way. Often hamstrung by a national group that's either incompetent, corrupt or a bit of both following their policies.

At work I can fire who I wish, and answer to no one, no monthly reports, no tedious meetings, no badgering officers, no paying for others out of my own pocket. No storing of goods, no weirdos, no people you hate but are forced to deal with regardless :) . Non-profits will tax a persons leadership ability and patience more than anything.

So Willard hit's the nail on the head, responsibility without authority makes you a scapegoat.. and/or makes you feel used.

Leading a diverse group of volunteers of various ages, cultural backgrounds and individual resources is akin to "wrangling cats". Getting them focused on a goal with their various individual wants, was often a chore.

Non-profits are made of volunteers. Unlike hiring people, your not choosing the best of the best, your getting whoever shows up. This is where non-profits are the weakest, as they attract "folks looking for something to do" and not ambitious types hungry for the paycheck. What shows is empty-nesters, the lonely divorced, the serially unemployed, college kids and the like. Sometimes very enthusiastic, others just looking for something to do. Some following weird lifestyles, section eight, folks on med's, goodhearted but often hard to communicate with individuals. I'm not trying to sound judgmental, I'm just addressing my experience.

They want to contribute...but often volunteers, have "ideas". Most often bad ideas. Always ignoring the logistics, the storing and transporting of group goods/projects and real life costs. Often they end up depending on you and when you end up stepping down, people treat you like are betraying them leaving them leaderless.

I did it for years, it was work and I ended up hating the hobby I was part of for 27yrs. I have no interest in "leading" anything now but I'll run a business. I don't feel bad saying no all the time, as it's my money. It's not a collaboration, it's not shared goals...it's my goals. It's for my wife, myself, and my greater family at large. The only opinion is mine, and everything generally runs like clockwork. I run a tight ship,.

You can too! Remember we pay attention to details others don't...that's why I believe many aspies are natural leaders. We never could fit in with NT peers so many of us adapted to lead them. If you can't fit in, lead. If your asking the question, then your interested in the position and thus can do it. You can do it.


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lammiu
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14 Dec 2013, 1:09 am

Thanks for all of your valuable sharing. I think this topics is really important. I learn a great deal from the insights esp. from Willard and AutisticMillionaire.

I was a leader working in a matrix project team. Even though I don't have formal authority to fire but because I was doing client facing and gathering requirements from clients. The india IT development team respected my expertise and knowledge such that we can deliver according to the need of the clients. I think indian staff are known for their obedience. I am Chinese. So it depends on the work environment and team structure. IT generally respect people's expertise especially you're on the client side even though without real authority.

Something beware. Because IT project are high risk of delay. Usually there is a shadow project manager that owns the formal title of a project manager. But the real person with authority is usually behind the person. I made the mistake of misjudging the project manager because of his lack of competency and look down on him. Later on, I realised the real project manager is insulted because of my attitude. So the formal manager is the representative or scapegoat of the "real" one. That's why we should not look down on authority even they are seemingly incompetent.


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