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Confused_Sloth
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20 Jan 2020, 8:16 pm

It's well into 2020 and I'm still looking for a job, I'm convinced that a major obstacle to my job search is my struggle writing cover letters.

I am an honest person, to a fault, I was taught that honesty was a virtue growing up and I've never forgotten that principle. But as you might guess, that's made job searching a bit difficult.

I am uncomfortable writing the BS needed on cover letters, my hands get weighted and I feel physically sick. Even when I manage to write something, I feel extremely uncomfortable lying on the cover letter. But so many jobs are looking for Team players, Good interpersonal skills, and other requirements that I don't excel in. Yet I'm supposed to include those keywords in my cover letter if I want to get past the bot they've got sorting out applications. I've maybe sent two cover letters in three months of job searching, most of my applications are just resumes and I think that's why I haven't gotten very far.

Has anybody gotten a job by being completely honest?


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hurtloam
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20 Jan 2020, 8:59 pm

Yes. I've never written anything about being a team player or blagged my way into a job.

I only write cover letters describing my actual skills as they pertain to the job.

There's evidence that cover letters don't even matter these days. HR managers say they don't even read them and are more interested in your resume.

I'd like to point out that I'm not some out of touch fuddy duddy. I have active ecperience of looking for a job in the last year and have been hired. This was in IT.

What field are you applying for?

When I was a student I couldn't get past the selection process for retail jobs though, so can't say that's my forte.



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21 Jan 2020, 7:23 am

I find the 'honest' strategy works well only for small businesses. For medium to large companies, you have to write a cover letter for a robot. As such, you have to find a way to hit as many 'keywords' as possible to get past the screening process. It's a dumb way to pick an employee but that's the world we live in.

Somewhat OT, but I recently looked at online ads for people interested in becoming editors, proofreaders, etc. Every single one of them had at least one spelling or grammar error and one was littered with grammatical errors while they were bragging constantly about their excellent grammar skills.:roll: In short, cover letters are BS and everyone knows it.



Confused_Sloth
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21 Jan 2020, 7:52 pm

That is comforting to know hurtloam, I am in the field of Biochemistry, hoping to get into research or clinical laboratory. Unfortunately, I am mostly applying to large companies or universities, so if and when I write a cover letter, it'll likely have to be modified to pass muster. I have been applying to smaller companies too, but no success so far.

I'm contemplating writing 'honest' cover letters that are to the point and only talk about the strengths I actually have, it's just depressing and hurts the motivation to think that human eyes will never read the cover letters. And as you pointed out, I also did find out that cover letters aren't a deciding factor in employment anymore, employers hardly read them, but I also found that they do use the cover letter as a way to easily weed out applicants, thus I likely still have to write out cover letters, which no human eyes will read, to just get through the first round (at least for bigger companies).

@GiantHockeyFan I wish the world was less hypocritical, I grew up believing what my parents said, what my teachers said, and what the bible said (although I'm no longer as religious as I once was) about honesty, integrity, and selflessness. Only to learn growing up that it's all BS, but it's hard to change myself to be what I need to be. I suppose I will either adapt and get a job or have to settle for a job that I am overqualified for.


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Confused_Sloth
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21 Jan 2020, 9:31 pm

Tried talking to my relatives about my problem, was about as helpful as I expected. They simply told me this is the way of the world, scoffed at my immaturity, told to "just do it, you should be sending out cover letters, you think I didn't BS my way into my position? If you don't BS you'll never get into the high range paying jobs. BS your way into the position and then you can acquire the skills you need." I then mention I'm not skills deficient, but socially deficient, I would have to lie about my team-work skills, my sociability, and my demeanor. They simply replied "That's life, just do it. We shouldn't even be sitting here talking about this, you should be applying to that job you just found right now."

So essentially I went for advice and got back "Just do it, you have to."

I can't expect an NT to understand I guess. I just wish they had better advice than "That's just way things are." or "Just do it." or "Everyone else does it."

I mean I go to my relative seeking help, saying I am struggling to lie on my cover letters, and his sage advice is to "Stop wasting time talking about it and just do it."

Forgive me for the rant. It's times like these that I'm happy that I found WrongPlanet.


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kraftiekortie
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22 Jan 2020, 10:03 am

I don't believe it makes sense to write, honestly, about one's "deficiencies."

Writing that one is "deficient in social skills" is a dealbreaker. Nobody would hire such a person. For many reasons.

Anyway, what is "deficient" for some might not be "deficient" for someone else. So....it is quite possible that you are actually being honest when you say that you have at least some of the strengths which you believe you do not possess.



SharonB
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22 Jan 2020, 12:59 pm

Just watching this post as I am in a job search that's as slow as molasses. Hard for me to take action. Sometimes I get all inspired that I will find the fit but haven't had the patience (resilience, whatever) to keep looking for it when it doesn't pop up in the first 30 min. I think you're getting further than me, so kudos to you there!



pyrrhicwren
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22 Jan 2020, 1:11 pm

I attended a resume seminar at a financial institution I used to work for. They showed exactly what hiring VP's were looking for. Using their method and breaking up wordy text helped greatly. Instead of focusing on the downsides as in trouble with communication, accentuate the positives: 'above average ability to focus on projects and precise attention to detail', etc... You got this.

Btw, they mentioned that on average you have 35 seconds max to get their attention.


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Confused_Sloth
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22 Jan 2020, 1:44 pm

Thanks for the advice, it's helpful. Very helpful. Focus on positive aspects, and keep it under 30 seconds, concrete advice.


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hurtloam
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23 Jan 2020, 7:34 am

Oh my, none of the geneticists or bio-chemists I've worked with or known socially have had good social skills.

I was actually disappointed with the amount of back stabbing, blagging and riding on others coat tails I saw in the research world.
There's 2 types of scientist, those who plug away at things quietly and those who are loud and brash and will do anything to succeed.

That's a bit harsh. There's those with good skills and who present well and who are getting along quite well without being crazy extroverts.

I'm not a scientist, I was support staff, but the higher up the chain I got the less I liked it. I'm working in a different part of the University now.

Don't mention your weaknesses. As kraftie says, you do have strengths, focus on those.

Don't write rambling cover letters. Try and stick to the point. Focus on what skills you have that will be beneficial to that post/project. Short easy to read paragraphs.

The thing that worries me about blagging is that I might end up doing a job I can't do skillswise. I over emphasised my object oriented programming skills at one interview because I had some basics in it and was stuck in a job for 6 months that I couldn't do.



pyrrhicwren
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27 Jan 2020, 9:16 am

Confused_Sloth wrote:
Thanks for the advice, it's helpful. Very helpful. Focus on positive aspects, and keep it under 30 seconds, concrete advice.


To clarify real quick about the 35 seconds thing. Put together a resume usually on 1 page unless you have a lot of relelvant experience, max 2 pgs. The wording should be broken up to about 3 bullet points per job, not run-on, and try not to have the wording look like a brick wall. Use a font that is easy on the eyes and a text size of around 10-11. In those 35 seconds they will scan the page for relevancy. Resumes are an art form. If you need any pointers feel free to pm.


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Foxx
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27 Jan 2020, 6:25 pm

I tend to take job-seeking time as a good opportunity to reflect on the good results and surprises in my own career. Think about what you've offered in various projects and how you've handled requests.
I can understand why you're confused with those "corporatese" terms...

What i'm getting at, is that you might be more of a "team player" than you think you are. "Team player" and "Good interpernsonal skills" are usually meant to measure how well you function in a team or project setting.

At the start of my own (IT) career, I never thought about myself as a "good team player" or having "good interpersonal skills" - however, with input from colleagues, coaches and bosses over time, i've come to realize that I work well in those settings, including somewhat volatile situations like customer contact.
While my forté is to hunker down and focus on a given task - I realized that i'm also very helpful, and often offer my knowledge and viewpoint to a given project, and I do so without being condescending or arrogant about it.
I also found (more through friendships than work) that I was good at de-escalating and troubleshooting difficult situations.
That's just two examples and aspects of being a "good team player" and "having good interpersonal skills".

You have to know that those two terms are VERY broad, and that you can still use them to your advantage - even as an aspie.

A good practice is to ask yourself and write down:
- have you had to deal with customers/clients? What were the results? What were the complaints (if any)?
- How did you handle team projects? What was your role in the team? What results did you achieve and how?
- write down examples where you think your input had a positive effect on the project as a whole. How did you offer that input? Was there resistance to your input?
- What is important for you in the work you do? I'm not thinking about the workplace - but what's important for you before you submit a project with a neat bowtie on it.

Not only does the practice give you some good ammo for the paperwork - it can also help with the interview.

Additional tips (how I do it. Keep in mind that i'm from Europe, so our job-seeking customs may be a bit different):

Cover letter:
- Should be one page.
- Write an introductory paragraph that describes youself, with a short overview of your "hard" (education-based and gained) skills
- Write a small paragraph about your "soft" skills (how you are as a person and "team player"). Do name your proudest moment of your career, where you used those soft skills to your advantage.
- End with a bullet list of what you can offer the company/institution. You might have other qualities as well that the target is interested in. Make it "mesh" with the job posting's points. This can also include practical info (eg. you have a driver's license, willingness to move/commute).
- "Willingness to learn" is always a plus point - nobody matches the skillset 100% (especially in IT), it demonstrates that you're willing to evolve and grow into a task or skillset.

Resumé:
- Can be multiple pages (2 or 3).
- Has your contact information, LinkedIn link and links to other relevant websites (eg. arxiv page, your own webpage if you have one)
- Lists higher education, locations of the institutions and timespan of those. Include bullets of important minors, majors and degress you gained.
- Lists previous employments. for each of those, have a singlebullet about your general area of work, and have two or three bullets shortly describing relevant projects that you're proud of.
- Lists "hard" skills - eg. any relevant computer software, relevant skills in your field where you excel.

Typography in general:
- Adapt the font to how you submit the papers. Sans-serif (eg. Calibri) for electronic submission - Serif (eg. Times New Roman) for physical submission. Size 10-11pt is a good font size.
- Don't bother with colorful graphics and graphs on the paperwork, it impedes a bot's ability to read the document, and might cause problems if the receiver wants to print it out (black/white printers are still a thing)
- Do use simple graphics (eg. lines) to "guide" the reader along. Eg. on your resumé, you can use lines to separate the various bits of information.
- Be wary of forming a "wall of text".
- In the cover letter, strike a balance between bullet points and short paragraphs. Too many bullets gives the impression that you're either lazy or dyslexic. Too much text can overwhelm the reader.
- Add relevant links directly in the document for linkedin profile, papers, etc. if you submit online. It gives the reader a good opportunity to easily find and gauge your work.

Other tips:
- I've been taught that cover letters are for looking forward (what can you offer the new company?), while the resumé is for looking back in time (your existing skillset).
- Use spell check. Never the autocorrect feature :D
- Always submit in PDF (file > export to... > PDF). Word & co. has a habit of thinking for the user and can mess up the typography, fonts etc.
- Use links in the documents to demonstrate your skill if you can and if it's relevant. These, again, can be links to papers, news articles, products etc.
- Usually, good job postings have contact information for inquiries about the job. If you have concerns about the posting, or just want to gauge the importance of the skill set needed, don't hesitate to do so. It demonstrates your interest in the job, and gives you good ammo for the cover letter. When you submit,you can refer back to the conversation ("Thanks for the conversation on dd/mm/yy. I'm still very interested in working for you in the position of <JOB>. I hope that you'll find the attached documents relevant to the position, and that it can serve as a good basis for an upcoming interview.")
- If the company/institution doesn't contact you within eg. a week after the job posting's deadline, it's a good idea to contact them (by phone if possible). Depending on the company, you might just get a "canned" answer. However, some companies are nice and do offer you feedback on your paperwork. Again, it demonstrates interest in the position that you're applying for.

I hope it helps :D



Confused_Sloth
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27 Jan 2020, 10:36 pm

Thank you, Fox, hurtloam, and pyrrhicwren for the helpful advice. It's tough formatting the resume not to look like a brick wall while trying to include everything, so my Resume is half brick wall, half well-spaced bullet points.

It's hard thinking up positive words for myself, yet negative ones come easy. I've tried writing about myself positively in my new resume using words like reliable, adept, and successful, even though I don't believe in those words 100%. It certainly sounds better than my last resume.

@hurtloam I'm actually having a problem with coattail riding myself, my professor put my name as a co-author on a paper, even though I really don't think I deserve the honor. (I felt half-compelled at the time to say that I shouldn't have my name put on the paper, but then I thought that would be a rather ungrateful way to respond.) Now I feel very guilty and partially ashamed when I try to "Highlight" the publication as an "achievement" to help me get a job.


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Foxx
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28 Jan 2020, 2:37 am

Quote:
It's tough formatting the resume not to look like a brick wall while trying to include everything,

I forgot at least one tip: Don't include everything, include what's relevant.

This is easiest if you have a job ad as a template and experience in the field. You can use the job posting and experience as a template.
If a posting or ad mentions "problem-solver", "multi-tasker" and "reliable" - place emphasis on those terms, if you can do 2 out of 3, it's still good. On the other hand, if it's not directly mentioned by letter or by word of mouth (if you called them), you can leave it out.
Do try to, at least partially, adapt the paperwork and wording to the target. You don't have to start from scratch every time.

- be wary with using "successful" as an adjective. Some see it as "error-free" in the literal sense of the word, that goes for NTs as well... If you do use it, be prepared to back it up with solid evidence!

If you can find or figure out the company's value-set from their advertising or their web page, you can use that as well. Many people just stick to what's in the job posting - it's a good way to demonstrate interest, and that you invested time in researching the company.

Quote:
...even though I don't believe in those words 100%. It certainly sounds better than my last resume.

You don't have to believe those words 100% - nobody's a lean mean problem-solving, multi-tasking, social hub of a machine 100% of the time. That goes for NTs, and especially aspies.
- and especially for aspies, i've found that we often remember the bad experiences better than the good ones...
Even if you're 95% reliable, 90% adept and 70% successful - it's still something worth mentioning.

Quote:
my professor put my name as a co-author on a paper, even though I really don't think I deserve the honor.

Your professor thought that you made a valuable contribution to the work and the material. Trust me, he did NOT put your name on there for free! :mrgreen:
Don't see it as coattailing - if anything, that's a credit and a "thank you" for some good work. Remember - it was the professor's choice to add your name... :)



pyrrhicwren
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28 Jan 2020, 8:58 am

Confused_Sloth wrote:
Now I feel very guilty and partially ashamed when I try to "Highlight" the publication as an "achievement" to help me get a job.


^ Special Awards/Achievements section at the end of the resume


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Confused_Sloth
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28 Jan 2020, 10:32 pm

The specific phrase I'm using is simply adapted from a list of phrases I read online.
"Reliable Research Assistant with a degree in Biochemistry. Detail-oriented and adept at collecting, analyzing, and synthesizing data from a variety of sources. Successful in contributing to peer-reviewed articles and publications exploring protein folding and protein-protein interactions."

Reliable? If properly instructed, yes.
Detail Oriented? Yeah, maybe too detail oriented.
Adept? Not quite there yet.
Successful? I did get co-authorship on a paper in a published journal (Which I don't think I deserve.)

The problem is every time I think up positive words to myself, I can always think of how it's not quite true, or maybe its conditional, or whatever. So I simply ripped a stock phrase from the internet and adapted it to my purposes. There's a voice inside me screaming "PLAGARISM!" but I've decided to ignore it, to improve my job chances.

@Foxx, it's true that a professor probably wouldn't give co-authorship for free, but I really didn't do much, after all, you can't expect a student who's never been in a lab before to achieve a lot in just 2 months in the summer. In fact, I could've worked harder, makes me wish I could go back in time and kick my lazy self. But I'm still lazy so I settle for kicking myself.

I really wish there was an easy cure for laziness.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 130 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)