Why it's so hard to convince employer to look at you works?

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ElvenNeko
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19 Nov 2021, 3:27 am

TL, DR: I spent 17 years trying to convince people to spend 15 minutes to look at my job examples. Nobody agrees. To me it seems weird because 15 minutes is nothing for a possible interesting read (at least) and possible valuable gain (at best). And since they just do not answer me, i don't know the reason why it happens.


My interest is creating worlds and stories for video games, and also core gameplay mechanics that would suit the story well and give player fresh expiriences. I spent my entire life to study all the video games in genres that interest me, and now i know what makes them good or bad, how to avoid annoying cliches, how to make proper pacing, and other important things. I also picked the best story ideas from thousands i had, and spent years refining them into near-perfect state. Some of my stories can easily compete with the best existing games in various genres. And while my original stories are the best thing i can offer, i can also work on existing ones (if the genre and lore will suit my skills) to make them better in any possible way - create quests, write characters, lore parts, or improving story itself.

I can't publish my works openly since it will instantly devalue them, but i always offer to show them to the developers in private, and i also have small examples of lower quality on my website, as well as RPG game published on Steam, that has only positive feedback about the story despite it's being only a prologue. Yet still none of that seems to be enough to convince developers to look at my works and i don't understand why - they not losing anything if they do, but they still never respond to me, or respond saying that they already have a writer (only few times). Even saying that i am from thrid-world country and ready to work for any payment, no matter how low it is not helping.

It's especially sad because i constantly see very incompetent writers and game designers ruining the multi-million projects, and causing massive losses to the companies yet still getting even better jobs in the future. I can point out every mistake they made and how it could be corrected with minimal effort and budget, but... who will listen to be. It's very frustrating to know that you can do better, but nobody will ever give you a chance to prove that.

I got the advice from other developers to take another gamedev job and after working on it for some time ask for writer's role in the team, but i am unable to do that because i have memory problems, and they are especially bad when it comes to thing that do not interest me, i have a very hard time learning them and forgetting them very fast. For example i tried to learn programming but now can't remember how to even code hello world. Or i spent years mastering various level editors, but now have only vague memories about how to use them. I am spending more time reading manuals over and over again instead of actually working and can't be effective employee at any other role.

Why it's so hard to convince a human to read a file for 15 minutes? I think even most busy people in the world can find extra 15 minutes once in month or something. For them it's nothing, for me - it could change my entire life from pointless existence to being happy by fufilling my purpose.



envirozentinel
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19 Nov 2021, 3:38 am

I don't know which country you're in and whether you've been meeting potential backers or employers in person or online, but maybe you just haven't found the right "match" for your skills yet. It could be that you need someone in real life who believes in your work and can back you up.

Your ideas do sound creative, even though I'm no good with technology and cannot thus be of any practical assistance. I can understand however, as I've been trying to get people to publish my children's fantasy/sci-fi and it is difficult nowadays to find traditional publishers who don't expect the author to contribute to the publishing costs.

Keep trying - but be very cautious of people trying to scam you and take your ideas for their own.


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ElvenNeko
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19 Nov 2021, 5:06 am

I am in Ukraine, the only option for me to meet other people (especially from the industry) is online.



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19 Nov 2021, 9:24 am

ElvenNeko wrote:
TL, DR: I spent 17 years trying to convince people to spend 15 minutes to look at my job examples. Nobody agrees.  To me it seems weird because 15 minutes is nothing for a possible interesting read (at least) and possible valuable gain (at best).  And since they just do not answer me, I don't know the reason why it happens.

My interest is creating worlds and stories for video games...
Let me get this straight: I assume you have approached several multi-billion-dollar companies -- ones that already have invested several million dollars annually in developing their in-house creative content groups -- to try impressing them with a few drawings and ideas you came up with at home.

Please forgive the snark, but I cannot seem to put this in a nice way that will still get the point across; specifically, you may as well approach each of the automobile manufacturers with your ideas on how to construct toroidal objects that would allow their automobiles to travel on public roads...


Image



envirozentinel
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19 Nov 2021, 11:44 am

^I know the world of video game creation is highly competitive but your remarks aren't exactly helpful to the OP. You're surely not suggesting that people should not put in an effort to be recognized by the people who make things happen?

If one has both the creative talent and the technical ability they should follow their dreams - everyone started out small even our home-grown Elon Musk.


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19 Nov 2021, 11:55 am

envirozentinel wrote:
^I know the world of video game creation is highly competitive but your remarks aren't exactly helpful to the OP. You're surely not suggesting that people should not put in an effort to be recognized by the people who make things happen?

If one has both the creative talent and the technical ability they should follow their dreams - everyone started out small even our home-grown Elon Musk.
Well, you could be right about the lack of helpfulness.  I do not know what to tell someone who is in a highly competitive field, except maybe to enter the field as an independent manufacturer -- start up a company of their own, invent some new ideas, build up a product line, establish a reputation of their own, and then either sell their company to one of the bigger ones or approach a bigger one with an actual finished product and take on some contract work.



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19 Nov 2021, 11:58 am

Not easy, but it can be done. Difficult for some though, especially those with no substantial financial resources and who lack the type of personality that inspires confidence in people - that spark some folk have that can sell sand to a Bedouin.


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TB_TB_TB_TB_TB_TB
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19 Nov 2021, 12:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
ElvenNeko wrote:
TL, DR: I spent 17 years trying to convince people to spend 15 minutes to look at my job examples. Nobody agrees.  To me it seems weird because 15 minutes is nothing for a possible interesting read (at least) and possible valuable gain (at best).  And since they just do not answer me, I don't know the reason why it happens.

My interest is creating worlds and stories for video games...
Let me get this straight: I assume you have approached several multi-billion-dollar companies -- ones that already have invested several million dollars annually in developing their in-house creative content groups -- to try impressing them with a few drawings and ideas you came up with at home.

Please forgive the snark, but I cannot seem to put this in a nice way that will still get the point across; specifically, you may as well approach each of the automobile manufacturers with your ideas on how to construct toroidal objects that would allow their automobiles to travel on public roads...


Image


@Fnord

Snark forgiven, that's good advice.



ElvenNeko
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19 Nov 2021, 2:09 pm

Quote:
Let me get this straight: I assume you have approached several multi-billion-dollar companies -- ones that already have invested several million dollars annually in developing their in-house creative content groups -- to try impressing them with a few drawings and ideas you came up with at home.


No, i approached all companies, big and small. Also i have more but few ideas - i have finished concepts and plots. And some of my plots can easily be one of the best in the entire genre.
Apart from that, some of the companies i approached have failed miserably despite all their investments, and it's painfully obvious why. I could explain every single reason why they sold 4m copies instead of 8m their previous game achieved, and all the steps that could be taken to prevent that from happening. If they had me instead of whoever they hired for that job, they would have 4m more unit sales at least.



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19 Nov 2021, 3:07 pm

ElvenNeko wrote:
TL, DR: I spent 17 years trying to convince people to spend 15 minutes to look at my job examples. Nobody agrees. To me it seems weird because 15 minutes is nothing for a possible interesting read (at least) and possible valuable gain (at best). And since they just do not answer me, i don't know the reason why it happens.


My interest is creating worlds and stories for video games, and also core gameplay mechanics that would suit the story well and give player fresh expiriences. I spent my entire life to study all the video games in genres that interest me, and now i know what makes them good or bad, how to avoid annoying cliches, how to make proper pacing, and other important things. I also picked the best story ideas from thousands i had, and spent years refining them into near-perfect state. Some of my stories can easily compete with the best existing games in various genres. And while my original stories are the best thing i can offer, i can also work on existing ones (if the genre and lore will suit my skills) to make them better in any possible way - create quests, write characters, lore parts, or improving story itself.

I can't publish my works openly since it will instantly devalue them, but i always offer to show them to the developers in private, and i also have small examples of lower quality on my website, as well as RPG game published on Steam, that has only positive feedback about the story despite it's being only a prologue. Yet still none of that seems to be enough to convince developers to look at my works and i don't understand why - they not losing anything if they do, but they still never respond to me, or respond saying that they already have a writer (only few times). Even saying that i am from thrid-world country and ready to work for any payment, no matter how low it is not helping.

It's especially sad because i constantly see very incompetent writers and game designers ruining the multi-million projects, and causing massive losses to the companies yet still getting even better jobs in the future. I can point out every mistake they made and how it could be corrected with minimal effort and budget, but... who will listen to be. It's very frustrating to know that you can do better, but nobody will ever give you a chance to prove that.

I got the advice from other developers to take another gamedev job and after working on it for some time ask for writer's role in the team, but i am unable to do that because i have memory problems, and they are especially bad when it comes to thing that do not interest me, i have a very hard time learning them and forgetting them very fast. For example i tried to learn programming but now can't remember how to even code hello world. Or i spent years mastering various level editors, but now have only vague memories about how to use them. I am spending more time reading manuals over and over again instead of actually working and can't be effective employee at any other role.

Why it's so hard to convince a human to read a file for 15 minutes? I think even most busy people in the world can find extra 15 minutes once in month or something. For them it's nothing, for me - it could change my entire life from pointless existence to being happy by fufilling my purpose.

15 mins for a person is way too long for job examples. I would personally be impressed but I know they like resumes short and sweet so they don't have to read. Do you happen to have any friend in the business? They may be able to tell you how they got the job. If not we have an example like hmm was it Apple and Windows companies? Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. There's a movie about how things work in big business, they stole from other people and only hire the workers they absolutely need which they treat like robots [or at least steve did]. What fnord said reminds me way too much of that story. Wasn't fnord tasked with the selection of applicants for the job? The interview is definitely the hardest part of a job.

Hmm there's one too many writers and they don't know whom to select. What do you have to offer them that that writer doesn't? Ask for a chance to compete against their writer? But you might have more chances to get a job in a place which already needs one.

For 17 years you have done the same 15 mins thing. Are you ready to change it?

I still don't believe it's enough. You might be up against someone like you. Or someone with bigger names than Steam, a former CEO in the business or something. Someone with real job experience. Real experience is a nasty stage. Seems like Steam is still not enough.



Rexi
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19 Nov 2021, 3:15 pm

In my country it doesn't matter what you are in a business, if you apply for another position there i think they have to select you or at least interview you. There are stories of janitors learning a job by being in the business and switching to good positions.



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19 Nov 2021, 5:01 pm

ElvenNeko wrote:
Quote:
Let me get this straight: I assume you have approached several multi-billion-dollar companies -- ones that already have invested several million dollars annually in developing their in-house creative content groups -- to try impressing them with a few drawings and ideas you came up with at home...
No, i approached all companies, big and small. Also i have more but few ideas - i have finished concepts and plots. And some of my plots can easily be one of the best in the entire genre.

Apart from that, some of the companies i approached have failed miserably despite all their investments, and it's painfully obvious why.  I could explain every single reason why they sold 4m copies instead of 8m their previous game achieved, and all the steps that could be taken to prevent that from happening.  If they had me instead of whoever they hired for that job, they would have 4m more unit sales at least.
Do you base this high opinion of yourself on an established facts, such as having built up your own "8m company"?



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14 Dec 2021, 5:40 pm

ElvenNeko wrote:
And since they just do not answer me, i don't know the reason why it happens.

If you want to know the reason, then people here in WP need to see a copy of your exact message (the exact wording you used), and then people here can tell you why it was rejected or ignored.

For example, if we could read your exact message, then we might think (just for example), "Aha! That looks like something that NT's interpret as equivalent to you telling an NT that you're better than him/her (or more skillful or more intelligent). NT's usually hate that. It makes them feel inferior (regardless of whether it's true). It triggers their jealousy, followed by hate. Each NT wants to hear that he/she is the best. He/she doesn't want to hear that you are the best."

Many NT's insist on being manipulated. I hate this, and I didn't want to believe it for many years, but eventually I had to sadly admit that that is the nature of many or perhaps most NT's: They'll ignore you or even punish you if you refuse to manipulate them. Sad but true.

For example, when you talk to an NT, the truth might be:
Quote:
"Your work contains a bunch of mistakes that can be fixed."

But if you say the truth to the NT, you'll probably be punished. Instead, the NT demands that you lie to him/her by saying something like this:
Quote:
"Your work is really great. I admire it a lot. I have a few ideas about how to make it even better."


I find these lies depressing, so I prefer to avoid NT's if possible.

I also agree with what other people here already said -- it's possible that your work isn't as good as you think it is (this happens frequently). But even if your work really is the best, NT's don't want the best work, rather they want the person who triggers feel-good emotions.

Pretend you're talking to a cat. You tell the cat how great your work is. Does the cat care? Of course not. The cat doesn't care about the quality of your work at all. The cat can't even understand you. But if you stroke the cat, then it starts purring. Unfortunately the same is also true of humans, because humans are distantly related to cats.



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15 Dec 2021, 11:38 am

Rotter wrote:
ElvenNeko wrote:
And since they just do not answer me, i don't know the reason why it happens.

If you want to know the reason, then people here in WP need to see a copy of your exact message (the exact wording you used), and then people here can tell you why it was rejected or ignored.

For example, if we could read your exact message, then we might think (just for example), "Aha! That looks like something that NT's interpret as equivalent to you telling an NT that you're better than him/her (or more skillful or more intelligent). NT's usually hate that. It makes them feel inferior (regardless of whether it's true). It triggers their jealousy, followed by hate. Each NT wants to hear that he/she is the best. He/she doesn't want to hear that you are the best."

Many NT's insist on being manipulated. I hate this, and I didn't want to believe it for many years, but eventually I had to sadly admit that that is the nature of many or perhaps most NT's: They'll ignore you or even punish you if you refuse to manipulate them. Sad but true.

For example, when you talk to an NT, the truth might be:
Quote:
"Your work contains a bunch of mistakes that can be fixed."

But if you say the truth to the NT, you'll probably be punished. Instead, the NT demands that you lie to him/her by saying something like this:
Quote:
"Your work is really great. I admire it a lot. I have a few ideas about how to make it even better."


I find these lies depressing, so I prefer to avoid NT's if possible.

I also agree with what other people here already said -- it's possible that your work isn't as good as you think it is (this happens frequently). But even if your work really is the best, NT's don't want the best work, rather they want the person who triggers feel-good emotions.

Pretend you're talking to a cat. You tell the cat how great your work is. Does the cat care? Of course not. The cat doesn't care about the quality of your work at all. The cat can't even understand you. But if you stroke the cat, then it starts purring. Unfortunately the same is also true of humans, because humans are distantly related to cats.


Advising folks "Don't deal with NTs" and "NTs all suck" doesn't really help them.



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15 Dec 2021, 1:39 pm

rse92 -- Alright, then if ElvenNeko posts a copy of the unsuccessful message, then I'll read it and try to suggest changes to the wording in order to make it acceptable to most potential employers. That could solve the problem of ElvenNeko's message being constantly ignored. That's helpful.

By the way, I didn't say all NT's. I said many NT's. Unfortunately "many" is accurate. I wish it weren't, but it is.



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15 Dec 2021, 1:43 pm

Rotter wrote:
... if ElvenNeko posts a copy of the unsuccessful message, then I'll read it and try to suggest changes to the wording in order to make it acceptable to most potential employers...
He has not logged on to WP for 3 weeks (since 2021-11-24).  I doubt you will be reading it any time soon.

 Here is his website.