Is it reasonable to conscript the unemployed in the army?

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DanielW
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23 Mar 2024, 8:12 pm

A draft wouldn't help unemployment much anyway. Males ages 18-35, with no disability, health issues, a clean criminal record, limited tattoos, and are physically fit would be a very small pool to select from.

Even and otherwise eligible person with none of the above issues, like ASD or ADHD has to be off of any medication for a year to try for a waiver.



MatchboxVagabond
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24 Apr 2024, 12:50 pm

DanielW wrote:
A draft wouldn't help unemployment much anyway. Males ages 18-35, with no disability, health issues, a clean criminal record, limited tattoos, and are physically fit would be a very small pool to select from.

Even and otherwise eligible person with none of the above issues, like ASD or ADHD has to be off of any medication for a year to try for a waiver.

Also keep in mind that in countries like the US, the military is effectively a make work program for those that can't handle regular careers. Yes, I'm sure folks will be offended by it, but I remember how hard the recruiters were trying to get me to sign up, and it was pretty clear that people with other prospects were unlikely to fall for their tricks. It was pretty clear with the navy recruiter in particular that the recruiter was well aware that he was scraping the bottom of the barrel and that was in the late '90s before 9/11 and people had a much less cynical view of how the military was being run and what the potential sacrifices meant.

That's not to say that that's always the case, but it is a field where people are told what to do and generally expected to do it as instructed to do without much variation. Things that are generally not useful in civilian jobs where finding better ways of getting the task done is essential to the business operating properly.



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02 May 2024, 2:06 am

I don't think it's reasonable at all.
Nor do I agree with conscription - as it is inherently sexist. And disempowers people (males anyhow, females are exempt) from making their own choices.

My dad was conscripted to fight for Australia. His number was drawn and he had no choice. For an insight as to what he went through listen to 1927's Compulsory Hero. "You've really got no say in it. You've gotta fight and that's the law".

I think if conscription remains a matter of law it should be enforced with no discrimination. Male, female, gender non specific. Doesn't matter. If you're called up you must go and fight, it's war without a choice (according to 1927).

With so many harping on about equal opportunity and the gender pay gap and the glass ceiling then why shouldn't things be equal? At present over 90% of people who die at work in Australia are males. Where's the outcry? Males have traditionally taken on more dangerous occupations and in return often earn more than females.

From my experience people do a very severe about face when it's females getting hurt people get riled up. People like my dad and both of my grandfathers who served came home with stab wounds, lead in them and shell shock. Alcoholism. Triggering sounds. Things that even now are still with them. They pay the price and suffer every day and night for things they were required by law to do.

Conscription tears away every part of "empowerment" that a person has and makes them nothing more than a robot of the government.

Military style discipline would do a lot to deal with the lazy people in our society and I think it holds a lot of merit to make them grow up and learn self discipline. But as far as conscription goes I don't think people who are already lazy and amotivated have much of value to offer to society. That ship has already sailed.

Do I think conscription should be abolished? Absolutely!
When people ask who is then going to defend the country - ask yourself why nobody wants to anymore.
Patriotism is dead.



Last edited by Cornflake on 03 May 2024, 8:22 am, edited 2 times in total.: Removed some contentious assertions

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02 May 2024, 6:13 pm

Aspinator wrote:
I personally feel that the draft should be for all people not just the unemployed. The draft could be for any type of public service not just the military.
. . . with a mandatory 2 years of service, from age 18 to age 20.  Extend for two years, and get free tuition to a state-run STEM degree.


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28 May 2024, 5:18 pm

It surprises me that people are calling for national service to be reintroduced even though it was abandoned in the 50s or 60s during the Cold War and there was no need for it during the rest of that period in the 70s and 80s.



Last edited by chris1989 on 28 May 2024, 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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28 May 2024, 5:22 pm

chris1989 wrote:
It surprises me that people are calling for national service to be reintroduced even though it was abandoned in the 50s or 60s during the cold war and no need for it during the rest of that period in the 70s and 80s.


It's just the Tories hoping to appear to gammons who think the draft is a good idea but are also too old to be impacted. It's not like young people vote for the Tories, so victimizing them won't cost the Tories any votes.


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28 May 2024, 5:26 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
chris1989 wrote:
It surprises me that people are calling for national service to be reintroduced even though it was abandoned in the 50s or 60s during the cold war and no need for it during the rest of that period in the 70s and 80s.


It's just the Tories hoping to appear to gammons who think the draft is a good idea but are also too old to be impacted. It's not like young people vote for the Tories, so victimizing them won't cost the Tories any votes.


I remember Hugh Dennis from the UK TV comedy show Mock The Week saying ''I think they should bring back national service but for old people, because they are the ones that want it.''



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28 May 2024, 5:29 pm

chris1989 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
chris1989 wrote:
It surprises me that people are calling for national service to be reintroduced even though it was abandoned in the 50s or 60s during the cold war and no need for it during the rest of that period in the 70s and 80s.


It's just the Tories hoping to appear to gammons who think the draft is a good idea but are also too old to be impacted. It's not like young people vote for the Tories, so victimizing them won't cost the Tories any votes.


I remember Hugh Dennis from the UK TV comedy show Mock The Week saying ''I think they should bring back national service but for old people, because they are the ones that want it.''


:lol: :lol:

He's on to something. Draft the gammons if they want it so badly.


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28 May 2024, 5:32 pm

BillyTree wrote:
If the army mainly consists of conscripted unemployed or poor people I think the politicians are more likely to view the soldiers as expendable. It's important the thought "It could be my son or daughter" is hanging over the people with power as a sword to keep them back a little bit.

Probably, but it also means a return to cannon fodder as such conscripts are unlikely to be good enough.



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28 May 2024, 7:13 pm

BillyTree wrote:
If the army mainly consists of conscripted unemployed or poor people I think the politicians are more likely to view the soldiers as expendable. It's important the thought "It could be my son or daughter" is hanging over the people with power as a sword to keep them back a little bit.



In a ideal world , this would ideally be true . But , People with money, seem to have ways of keeping their children
out of harms way , very often.


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29 May 2024, 10:41 pm

Jakki wrote:
BillyTree wrote:
If the army mainly consists of conscripted unemployed or poor people I think the politicians are more likely to view the soldiers as expendable. It's important the thought "It could be my son or daughter" is hanging over the people with power as a sword to keep them back a little bit.



In a ideal world , this would ideally be true . But , People with money, seem to have ways of keeping their children
out of harms way , very often.

While it's crystal clear that conscripting military personnel is less than ideal, conscripting into a civilian revisiting of the Works Progress Administration would be far less problematic and likely to lead to a bunch of essential infrastructure being built that future generations can benefit from.

Really, there's little reason for able bodied adults to not be working if they are willing to work.



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30 May 2024, 12:32 am

quote from above:
"if they are willing to work."

Yes , indeed if you can find those. The homeless people herethat are about this area. Generally are not quite mature enough to do any kind of scheduled employment. Have seen a number of them queing around the freeway offramps and behind the local liqour store. 50% appear alky like ... Others mix of hard drugs ..burglary and property damage seem to come from this part of the group . Being homeless is like an adventure vacation away from their personal families .For excitement . Was conveyed to me by one of free food servers at the church Pantry food giveaway. After Church.
Actually met one of them that had a wife and children ..Both in the Fed Pen.,From my personal experiences years past here. ( imho)


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