What do you wish employers knew about AS?

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Hello!
I'm writing a manual and possibly a seminar about hiring and managing people with AS. What do wish employers knew when
1. Hiring someone with AS?

2. Managing someone with AS?

Thanks for your help!

That I interview badly, but that my "condition" has no real bearing on my work. If anything, my attention to detail enhances productivity and the output, and my ability to do contingency planning has saved my employers many nightmares in the past. [Edit: I have seen, on several occasions, problems on the horizon and advised on action to be taken or contingencies to have ready "in case" when others in the organization were clueless that the train was even bearing down on them.... I have, apparently, a better sense of "what happens if" or "what is the worst that could happen and what are three or four ways out of or around it."]

I would strongly urge you to not rely on a "one time face-to-face" interview, and definitely avoid a panel interview (which I find excruciatingly painful and non-productive as I'm having to spend a lot of intellectual energy figuring out the non-verbal stuff going by), but check my references. Really. And ask more than "would you rehire her?" I didn't get 15 years of "outstanding" on performance evaluations by being a screw-up. Really.

Do not use those nasty little "pre-canned" set of questions that are so trendy - "If I was a dinosaur, what kind would I be and why?" has not got a damned thing to do with the job for which I'm interviewing. Ask about my strengths and weaknesses, ask about my experience, ask how I might deal with a hypothetical situation, but keep the fairies and flowers out of the room, ok? And I'm likely to answer precisely the question you asked. If you were ambiguous, I may ask you for clarification. If that bothers you, please be clear and concrete in the first place. (I've blown interviews because I asked people to be a bit more specific about the answer they wanted, and - from what I can tell - they hadn't thought it through enough to really know why they asked the question in the first place.)

In the past I have been told I was not hired because "it didn't seem like I really wanted the job enough." Hell, if I've gone through the hassle of applying and coming in for an interview, I want the job. I'm not going to play emotional games with anyone to say "reeeeally, reeeally, pick me, pick me!" There is NO way you are going to know if I am a good employee and can do the job any better than to see what I've done in the past. The fact that I'm not a plastic, overly made-up, "Chatty Cathy" social butterfly kind of person should have NO bearing on my being hired (unless the job is to be one of those things). Oy! I cannot stress this one enough.

That you need to be precise and direct in your communications with me. Do not assume I either know or do not know something that is important or what it is you do or do not want. I have been in a room when supervisors have made comments about others to the effect of "she should have known that wasn't going to fly" and "any NORMAL person would have known what was going to happen." I kept my mouth shut for fear of retaliation, but I wanted to say "What were they told? You make a lot of assumptions." and "Don't you think it's entirely more professional to make very clear expectations known rather than having people guess what you want, based on your emotional mood of the day?"

Again, tell me what you want, when you want it, and if you want it done in a certain manner, and I'll have it done.

PROVIDE FEEDBACK. I am not a mind-reader. After 30 years in the workforce I've learned to look for clues that tell me you are unhappy or angry, but I shouldn't have to spend hours trying to figure out if my work was appropriately done or if I've accidentally caused a problem. Talk to me, and be precise. No euphemisms, no talking around the issue. Just spit it out. I'll deal with it.

And, that I am a highly competent professional in my own right. Minor things, such as not forcing me to have bright fluorescent lights on directly over my head or expecting me to take part in psycho-babble, new-age "team building" exercises that really do nothing even remoted related to enhancing productivity are not unreasonable requests for accommodation on my part. Granted, they look as if you've done something to "educate" your employees, but in reality it's really just a chance for people to get out from behind their desks and goof off and "feel good about themselves." I prefer a different referent - tell me if I'm doing well, tell me if I'm not - and what you want. Then let me do it.

I don't want to be "pals" with my co-workers. I will treat them cordially and civilly, but they mean nothing to me. Don't try to force me into some fake construct. If anything, it'll backfire, as I'll spend more time trying to make that work than I have to spare and my work will suffer. I am not taking this job to be anyone's "best friend." I'm here to earn a paycheck. I do what I do very well, and that should be enough. I do not want to feel pressured to go to lunch with everyone twice a week, or to spend any time whatsoever that would normally be away-from-work time having to socialize with my co-workers or supervisors.

Good luck with your manual. I really hope it catches on.

Wow, now THAT is some great feedback!

For me I'd throw in a request for some degree of forebearance. Typically the AS person will be in a professional position and may need to explain things to others. I had to learn how to not come across as condescending. I still struggle a bit with email tone. A bit of extra leniency and extra explanation goes a long way towards helping here. I wouldn't be in a good situation now if not for a few semi-major faux pas being swept under the corporate carpet.

The AS person CAN learn, but needs extra teaching. Otherwise, I would continue into Nan's "PROVIDE FEEDBACK" paragraph.

If it's possible to give a performance interview, do that instead. I never has a successful 'normal' interview, but every performance interview went very well and I got the job.
I never got to a professional level in the usual sense, so maybe that's not always feasible, though.

I concur with almost everything Nan said. On the other hand, I interview very well in most cases - except for those flighty hypotheticals Nan mentioned - I've only encountered that sort of thing once or twice, almost always from somebody too young to even realize how stupid they sounded asking things like that. I was asked once in interview "What is your theory of Radio?" (I was a disc jockey). My 'theory of Radio? Who do I look like, Nikola Tesla? What the hell does that mean? In that instance, I did get the job and got on great with the boss who asked the question, but I'm still clueless what he expected me to say to that.

I watched one young woman's face fall when she asked me how I got along with coworkers and I replied "Pretty well, most of the time". What she wanted to hear was "Oh, I've never had a problem with anybody - I'm a PEOPLE PERSON", but even the cheeriest blighter runs into an immovable object once or twice in a career. So I didn't get the job, because I told the simple, obvious, universal truth instead of the politically correct insincere BS lie. Wow. I'm glad I never had to work side-by-side with the slimy brown-noser she did hire. I was born without the @ss-kiss gene in my DNA. Never had it, never will.

One of my pet peeves is that because I don't have that needy drive to stand around the water cooler and share little league photos with my coworkers, I'm easily able to come in later, work through the staff lunch get-together, finish all my tasks (and do them better since I'm not as easily distracted) and be ready to leave earlier than everyone else because I'm more focused and efficient. But if I do that, the lazy goof-offs who've had to stay late because they wasted more of their day socializing than working actually get angry at me.

Then I'm either fired for being too efficient, or forced to sit and stare at a clock for the last three hours of the workday, so the whiny children won't feel cheated that I got to go home while they had to stay and finish what they could have been doing instead of talking over donuts and coffee all morning. Then of course, they complain that the last three hours of the day, I'm not doing anything. Of course I'm not - I'm done!

And I get fired, for being too efficient and 'antisocial'. I'm not antisocial, I'm virtually never rude, even to those who get snarky and hostile to me. I'm NON social. I don't want to visit you in your home, or entertain you in mine. I really have no interest in how well your kids are doing in school, or what ailment your grandmother has. I came here to do a job, earn a paycheck, and go home to do things I enjoy. Unless you really, really want to know what they are, don't ask. Once I start telling you, you're going to get a thorough education in a subject or subjects you may not care to learn about. I don't hate you, but unless we have a particular obsessive interest in common, there's really not much to say.

What it boils down to is, Aspies think outside the box it the most literal sense of the metaphor. We do not fly in formation with the rest of the flock and if you're anal about that, you're going to find us baffling and maddening. Because of our autism, we sometimes cannot do things the way everyone else does, and the only explanation you're likely to get is "I can't" - I know it may not make sense to you, but trust me on this, can't means can't - it doesn't mean we're intentionally trying to be obstinate. Often we just naturally find our own way of making things work, and slip into that. When you see that happen, leave it alone - don't fix what ain't broke - Unless there's a strict government regulation or health and safety violation involved, let the Aspie handle the task the way that works best for them. Chances are, they're going to be the best employee in the place in terms of sheer productivity. If you meddle with their system, they're likely to get agitated and frustrated and just shut down. They won't talk to you, because you've already stopped listening. This is the first step in the impasse that leads to stalemate and ends in a firing.

I do well with behavioral interviews because the questions are centered around what I would do in a particular situation.

You might find this amusing. (or not)

My daughter, the Aspie, has been going to a coach to learn how to interview better. They've been trying to get her to understand the psyche of the interviewers out here in California, who tend to be a bubble off of center on the very best of days.

The question: (no joke) "If you were a dinosaur, what kind of dinosaur would you be?"

The kid, without missing a beat: "The kind of dinosaur that sits at a desk in your front office, typing 64 words per minute with no errors with its tiny little front legs because you were smart enough to hire it."

I love my kid, I really do. And I cannot wait until someone asks her that question to see how well it flies.

Thanks for your great replies, everyone!

1. Hiring someone with AS?

That someone with AS won't interview as well as an NT does. We are not always social creatures and interviews that focus on personality and not relevant job skills are very prejudicial against most of us. We grew up being told if we learned X, Y & Z skills, we'd get a good job....only to find out that employers like personality over skill when it comes to who they choose. In layman's terms, don't tell us we have a beautiful spirit when who you really want to hire is the pretty 20-year-old with a DD cup size.

We have skills and talents. Evaluate that, not fluff. We've learned to deal with what we see as "quirky" behavior in the NTs around us....be a little open minded about our differences.

Most of us make real good friends once you MAKE THE EFFORT to get to know us. If you judge us in the first 60 seconds, you won't know anything about us.


2. Managing someone with AS?

We need our space. We can be social creatures, but how much varies. We don't mind being part of a team, but we do best on our own focusing on our part of the task. Don't screw with our minds or hearts. We take things very literally and how well we handle subtlety depends on how well we've adapted to understanding it.

Don't use garbage like "constructive criticism" because it's psychobabble BS. If we've done right, say so. If we've done wrong, say so. We aren't so fragile that we can't handle the truth. Don't be mean...just be professional and honest. Leave emotions at the door because it can cloud how we interpret what you're communicating to us.

Take the time to get to know the AS worker better. Each one is fairly unique in how they manage their AS. Once you know us better, you will be able to work with us better.

I've thought of something else:

Training. Be flexible in how you train. Offer a number of alternatives and ASK the person which would work best for them. If they don't know, allow them to experiment.

In my organization they typically herd us into a large room and talk at us while flashing PowerPoint slides at us. They consider this "training." I come out of those sessions remembering almost nothing. It takes me a little bit to decipher sound, and if someone speaks indistinctly, or too rapidly, or with an accent that I' not used to, it slows me down further. If there's something in writing on a screen in the room, I'm going to be zoned in on that and will not be paying attention to the speaker in the first place.

On a really good day, if the room is comfortable, if there are no distractions (other people whispering or shuffling papers, or a noisy fluorescent light or people passing by outside the room, etc.) and if I do not look at the PowerPoint, I might remember about 70% of what I hear. If I do not then immediately use that information, if I do not go and do the process discussed, it fades at an alarming rate. As in, it's gone three or four weeks later.

What I have started to do recently is to ask for the written materials related to the training in advance. I read it in advance. If I have any questions, which I usually don't, I can then ask them at the "does anyone have any questions" part of the training, after their little PowerPoint presentation.

Of course, I then have to sit through the thing, which is usually uncomfortable, but I keep my job.

The ideal? Have a policy/procedure manual available for me online. That way it can be updated as needed, and it would be there for reference. If I take a training class and only use the "skills" or material taught therein once or twice a year, we've all wasted our time. I won't remember, possibly, even having taken the training, nevermind when to push the "F10" button. I much prefer to not have to sit through four hours of "training" when a simple online FAQ and a flowchart can convey the information in a few moments, and much more clearly.

In my job I have to provide policy advice to a lot of people, have to explain things to a lot of people. Often they want to know "where it says that" and I can then click and print as well - if it's available in writing online. SO nice to have that backup.

But that's me. Someone else might have a different set of preferences. The point is, be flexible, and offer more than one training option, if possible.

I might ask how you know the person has AS before you've hired them? You certainly cannot ask a job applicant about his/her AS tendencies during the job interview. If you are AS-aware, you might incidently pick up on an applicant's tendencies, but that's it.

I strongly hold the position that AS is not an employer's business anyway, unless for some reason it directly impacts the job itself and how the person will perform it.

In my case, I was actually on the other side of the issue ... I was the one doing the hiring. Since most of the people I hired were technical "nerd" types, I figure that a certain percentage of them were Aspies. That in itself did not bother me, nor affect my hiring decisions. What did affect my decisions was how well I thought the applicants could fit into the company. That was a judgement call on my part, based on how they presented themselves during the interview and other incidental conversation with them.

I think the previous posters who've mentioned interview coaching are on the right track. As I mentioned, companies are concerned about the overall chemistry in their workplace and their perception of how you will "fit" is as important as your other qualifications.

If you are going to get hired, you have to come across well in the interview. There's no getting around that. If that means you need coaching, then get coaching. As a side effect, it just might be helpful to you in dealing with other interpersonal issues, too.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Nan. I'm impatient with the games and the absurd questions interviewers are asking these days. I want employers to just please, explain what my job is, tell me what resources I have to get it done, then let me do it. And I've learned from painful experience (and this is especially true for Aspies, because if you're different or eccentric, NT coworkers often dislike you and feel threatened by you) that coworkers are almost never your friend. And for anyone, Aspie or NT, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. I know that's a little OT, but it's important.

I'd say to employers, please have an open mind. I also don't always do well in interviews and group seminars, but I have a lot to offer.

That I interview badly, but that my "condition" has no real bearing on my work. If anything, my attention to detail enhances productivity and the output, and my ability to do contingency planning has saved my employers many nightmares in the past. [Edit: I have seen, on several occasions, problems on the horizon and advised on action to be taken or contingencies to have ready "in case" when others in the organization were clueless that the train was even bearing down on them.... I have, apparently, a better sense of "what happens if" or "what is the worst that could happen and what are three or four ways out of or around it."]

I would strongly urge you to not rely on a "one time face-to-face" interview, and definitely avoid a panel interview (which I find excruciatingly painful and non-productive as I'm having to spend a lot of intellectual energy figuring out the non-verbal stuff going by), but check my references. Really. And ask more than "would you rehire her?" I didn't get 15 years of "outstanding" on performance evaluations by being a screw-up. Really.

Do not use those nasty little "pre-canned" set of questions that are so trendy - "If I was a dinosaur, what kind would I be and why?" has not got a damned thing to do with the job for which I'm interviewing. Ask about my strengths and weaknesses, ask about my experience, ask how I might deal with a hypothetical situation, but keep the fairies and flowers out of the room, ok? And I'm likely to answer precisely the question you asked. If you were ambiguous, I may ask you for clarification. If that bothers you, please be clear and concrete in the first place. (I've blown interviews because I asked people to be a bit more specific about the answer they wanted, and - from what I can tell - they hadn't thought it through enough to really know why they asked the question in the first place.)

In the past I have been told I was not hired because "it didn't seem like I really wanted the job enough." Hell, if I've gone through the hassle of applying and coming in for an interview, I want the job. I'm not going to play emotional games with anyone to say "reeeeally, reeeally, pick me, pick me!" There is NO way you are going to know if I am a good employee and can do the job any better than to see what I've done in the past. The fact that I'm not a plastic, overly made-up, "Chatty Cathy" social butterfly kind of person should have NO bearing on my being hired (unless the job is to be one of those things). Oy! I cannot stress this one enough.

That you need to be precise and direct in your communications with me. Do not assume I either know or do not know something that is important or what it is you do or do not want. I have been in a room when supervisors have made comments about others to the effect of "she should have known that wasn't going to fly" and "any NORMAL person would have known what was going to happen." I kept my mouth shut for fear of retaliation, but I wanted to say "What were they told? You make a lot of assumptions." and "Don't you think it's entirely more professional to make very clear expectations known rather than having people guess what you want, based on your emotional mood of the day?"

Again, tell me what you want, when you want it, and if you want it done in a certain manner, and I'll have it done.

PROVIDE FEEDBACK. I am not a mind-reader. After 30 years in the workforce I've learned to look for clues that tell me you are unhappy or angry, but I shouldn't have to spend hours trying to figure out if my work was appropriately done or if I've accidentally caused a problem. Talk to me, and be precise. No euphemisms, no talking around the issue. Just spit it out. I'll deal with it.

And, that I am a highly competent professional in my own right. Minor things, such as not forcing me to have bright fluorescent lights on directly over my head or expecting me to take part in psycho-babble, new-age "team building" exercises that really do nothing even remoted related to enhancing productivity are not unreasonable requests for accommodation on my part. Granted, they look as if you've done something to "educate" your employees, but in reality it's really just a chance for people to get out from behind their desks and goof off and "feel good about themselves." I prefer a different referent - tell me if I'm doing well, tell me if I'm not - and what you want. Then let me do it.

I don't want to be "pals" with my co-workers. I will treat them cordially and civilly, but they mean nothing to me. Don't try to force me into some fake construct. If anything, it'll backfire, as I'll spend more time trying to make that work than I have to spare and my work will suffer. I am not taking this job to be anyone's "best friend." I'm here to earn a paycheck. I do what I do very well, and that should be enough. I do not want to feel pressured to go to lunch with everyone twice a week, or to spend any time whatsoever that would normally be away-from-work time having to socialize with my co-workers or supervisors.

Good luck with your manual. I really hope it catches on.

Some years ago I worked at a big corporation where co-workers would scold me, "stop working so hard. You're making the rest of us look bad." I wasn't very happy there. I take a lot of pride in doing a job well.

Carole - The OP requested info on what we wished employers knew, not "how it is." We know very well "how it is" - at least, those of us who have been slogging through the workforce for any time. Many of us have some limitation in abilities, job coaching or not, to conform to an abstract construct of "what is expected" in an artificial interview scenario even though we are highly functional professionally (or, perhaps, not).

In some cases, no amount of special coaching or interview training will be useful. Been there, done that. I can't do eye contact. I've had to develop a sense of humor that I can pop out to compensate for that. It's worked well enough. I would urge any Aspie, though, to at least trot through one class in how to manage the interview, because there are some things that can be worked on. If for no other reason that it helps build confidence, and being confident is a very appealing quality. (NTs also go through job coaching, to get the extra "edge" in hiring.)

On the good side, if an interviewer makes a snap judgment in 20 minutes that I'm "too different" they're obviously from the kind of culture that I'd like to avoid like the plague anyway. I would not be happy in that job. I place a lot of value in diversity, of all types, in the workforce. I'm extremely aware that a short interview can only generically weed out people who are so terribly dysfunctional that they couldn't manage the work at all. It's the concept of "good fit" that's wonky in a lot of situations, I think.

One of the important points here is that pre-conceived notions of who would "fit" and who would not could, in some cases, stand to be retooled. I had a professor in graduate school who did not want to admit a quadraplegic to the program because he obviously would not fit in, as he needed to have a tape recorder in class and would be "disruptive" because of his seating needs (he had to lay on a platform at the end of the room and tended to drool on himself). He had to have his final exams given orally. The young man had to threaten a lawsuit to be admitted. He's now a successful businessman. And everyone who was in class with him learned one hell of a lesson in drive and ambition. (He was also a lovely human being who offered to tutor those who were behind in their studies, for free.)

In situations in which I have been the interviewee, I always let people know that I do interview badly, and that I do have years of stellar evaluations, and urge people to check my references. (Back when I was starting out I made it a point to play up how well I'd done at my most previous position.) Those who have contacted my references have hired me. Win/win. I've never mentioned WHY I interviewed badly and nobody has ever asked. It's not their business, at least until an offer is made and I have to request accommodations. I would very strongly advise a prospective employee to NOT advertise their Aspergers' in advance - it's the kiss of death for a job op, just as is almost any disability. (Unless you're trying to get hired with the feds through their selective placement program.)

Philosophically, I think that any interviewer who makes a snap judgment of a person's abilities and "fit" specifically on a single 20 to 40 minute interview is casting an extremely narrow net, based on some pretty superficial information and, potentially, doing a serious disservice not only to the interviewee but also the organization itself. I, too, have been in the hiring seat. I've been in situations where we had 400 aps for one job and had to go through the resumes, ranking them, and then sorting out who to move on and who to put in the "thanks anyway" pile. I have never interviewed someone whose references I have not checked in advance and very thoroughly after having examined their resumes very minutely. I tailored my interview questions to ferret out information that was not available on their resumes or from their references. That saved a lot of BS time - not having to be listening to people who danced around being "socially adept" but who were professionally incompetent. I put less value on how I "felt" about them than I did on their previous experience and recommendations. My placements, back when I had those duties, tended to do very well over time. Especially since the employer highly valued their output as well as their differences and was willing to work around their quirks. (I also hated that job, playing "god" with someone's career, but that's a moot point.) A lot of it does depend on what the job is, though.

Then again, a lot of my graduate work was in government personnel (AKA the Civil Service) which has a very different orientation than does the private sector, and my most recent decade or two has been in higher education, which is not on the same planet as the private sector. Both are WAY more accommodating than I have found the private sector to be, and might be good places for Aspies to check out.

But to the OP, I would also assume that if someone was writing an actual job manual for employers who were trying to deal with someone with Aspergers that the person was already identified - perhaps from self-disclosure in another part of the organization and now they're up for promotion/reassignment or for professional development as part of an established program within the organization. As all know, it's highly illegal to ask if someone has a disability in the interview process. What they CAN ask you (in the USA) is if you can perform the duties of the job with or without reasonable accommodations. Period. The answer should be "yes," because if it is not you should not be interviewing for the position.