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cyberdad
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04 Jul 2020, 4:38 am

MariaBoy wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the OP is still trying to uncover to what extent her son comprehends given she labels his understanding as excellent yet also says he acts like he doesn't follow instructions?

Children don't always follow a script, he may or may not be choosing to clam up or shutdown but he may sincerely be having difficulty decoding everything told to him.



Actually, I was wondering why would he go as far as to pretend to not understand and give me wrong items instead of obeying and finishing the task. His comprehension is good and I always read books to him and he answers me correctly in writing!


There is also stubbornness, it's linked to personality



kraftiekortie
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04 Jul 2020, 6:15 am

Just don’t make him retrieve the ball. Choose your battles. Emphasize his strengths over his weaknesses. He gives you the teddy bear. That should be enough.

Have you ever checked him for apraxia/dyspraxia? It’s a disorder of “motor planning.” It’s quite possible that he is cognitively able to talk—but that his apraxia interferes.

I wasn’t even able to write when I was 5 years old. He’s able to write full sentences at 5 years old? That’s pretty advanced.



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04 Jul 2020, 7:11 am

MariaBoy wrote:
I always read books to him and he answers me correctly in writing!


Nonverbal but he writes! That is interesting! Have you ever tried to give him written instructions instead of verbal instructions?


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jimmy m
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06 Jul 2020, 2:57 pm

I thought of a couple other things that may or may not help.

My granddaughter is a quiet child. Normally she doesn't speak to anyone except her parents and brother and sister. In the past generations, they use the term "shy" rather than the term "non-verbal". And the entire family including grandparents wait in anticipation to see what kind of person she will be when she finally comes out of her shell. It is like watching an egg about to hatch. She is 7 years old now and the eggshell is breaking open and she will soon emerge.

Sometimes if you want them to open up you need to be a little on the wild side. For example, in the dark of night I would gather up the grandkids and we would go outside and look at the moon. I would begin to howl like a wolf. After a few minutes, the grandkids would begin to join in. And we would all be howling, howling at the moon. They never realized the sheer joy that could be gotten by howling at the moon. It is like a primitive bonding experience.

As an Aspie I have a high pattern matching ability. My children and grandchildren inherited this ability. How do I know. Well I tested them with the following YouTube test and they scored quite well, even my 7 year old. So perhaps in a year or two you might see how well he does on this test.



As far as speaking, I might recommend a strange method to correct it, once he begins to come out of his shell. I am old and this is the method they used on me. And it worked well.

Some types of special education curriculum have been around for a long time. Sixty years ago when I was in the third grade the teacher saw a problem with the way I spoke. I thought it was due to my two large buckteeth. But anyways, I was sent to Special Class. Three days a week, special students along with myself were collected from their respective classroom and led to a secret hidden room off of the main school cafeteria. This happened while I was in the 3rd & 4th grade. The hidden room had a beautiful conference room table and very nice soft leather chairs. It was such a nice hidden room that I really didn’t mind being there. Our strange assignment during the hour we were in special class was to recite tongue twisters very fast and yet very distinctly. I thought it was a strange thing to do, but who am I to dispute a teacher. I remember the two types of tongue twisters that we recited. These were:

Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.
If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers,
then how many pickled peppers did Peter Piper pick?

Sally sells seashells by the seashore.
The shells Sally sells are surely from the sea.


I remember that it took great concentration to recite tongue twisters accurately. And you really had to work at it in order to say them fast.

This is something you could even try with your son. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!


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31 Jul 2020, 5:53 pm

MariaBoy wrote:
For example, if you ask him to bring a ball, first, he will ignore you. After you insist, he will do his best to show you that he doesn’t understand you. He will bring a teddy bear or any other thing but not a ball. You might think he doesn’t understand, and his teachers think so, too. However, this is a boy who reads, counts and knows a lot more than he shows. Finally, I said to him that I am 100% sure that he understands me and that he should help me like his brothers and he did it.

Do you, his teachers, or his therapists often ask him to do random things like this? Perhaps as part of some kind of therapy? He may be misunderstanding the point of what you are doing even though he understands the individual questions/commands. First ignoring you, then doing the wrong then, then finally doing the right thing after someone insists may have become a kind of routine to him.

So if you are trying to test his ability to listen/follow instructions/whatever, tell him it is a game or something so that he knows this is separate from every day life.


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Aspie1
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31 Jul 2020, 8:56 pm

starkid wrote:
Do you, his teachers, or his therapists often ask him to do random things like this? Perhaps as part of some kind of therapy? He may be misunderstanding the point of what you are doing even though he understands the individual questions/commands. First ignoring you, then doing the wrong then, then finally doing the right thing after someone insists may have become a kind of routine to him.

So if you are trying to test his ability to listen/follow instructions/whatever, tell him it is a game or something so that he knows this is separate from every day life.
Yes, very good advice! Aspie kids are very smart and perceptive, oftentimes scarily so. They can usually tell the difference between the following four situations, although the often lack the linguistic and social skills to properly tell an adult that they're able to do that. Plus, more often than not, the adult usually dismisses everything the aspie child says, so lashing out feels like a more viable option. To borrow a historical quote, "riots are the voice of the unheard".

The situations are:
1. Someone being genuinely interested in his intellectual and/or artistic skills.
2. Someone thinks he's stupid, and he feels compelled to prove that person wrong.
3. Someone basically telling him: "Dance for me, you autistic monkey!"
4. Someone is totally impartial, like a neutral lab scientist.

Therapists are stupid beyond stupid! They're like a bull in a china shop when it comes to dealing with aspies. Even when they're sincerely looking to obtain test results (#4), their actions and demeanor come across as #3. So I don't blame the poor kid for lashing out, because the therapist is seeing him a glorified circus monkey and doesn't care how degrading it feels to him.



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01 Aug 2020, 2:11 am

Aspie1 wrote:
starkid wrote:
Do you, his teachers, or his therapists often ask him to do random things like this? Perhaps as part of some kind of therapy? He may be misunderstanding the point of what you are doing even though he understands the individual questions/commands. First ignoring you, then doing the wrong then, then finally doing the right thing after someone insists may have become a kind of routine to him.

So if you are trying to test his ability to listen/follow instructions/whatever, tell him it is a game or something so that he knows this is separate from every day life.
Yes, very good advice! Aspie kids are very smart and perceptive, oftentimes scarily so. They can usually tell the difference between the following four situations, although the often lack the linguistic and social skills to properly tell an adult that they're able to do that. Plus, more often than not, the adult usually dismisses everything the aspie child says, so lashing out feels like a more viable option. To borrow a historical quote, "riots are the voice of the unheard".

The situations are:
1. Someone being genuinely interested in his intellectual and/or artistic skills.
2. Someone thinks he's stupid, and he feels compelled to prove that person wrong.
3. Someone basically telling him: "Dance for me, you autistic monkey!"
4. Someone is totally impartial, like a neutral lab scientist.

Therapists are stupid beyond stupid! They're like a bull in a china shop when it comes to dealing with aspies. Even when they're sincerely looking to obtain test results (#4), their actions and demeanor come across as #3. So I don't blame the poor kid for lashing out, because the therapist is seeing him a glorified circus monkey and doesn't care how degrading it feels to him.


I would like to add to what you said about therapists. Don't ask them for career advice. They'll send you to to organizations who really don't get it like Voc Rehab. I'll tell some of my experiences if you want when I get a chance.



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01 Aug 2020, 8:33 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
I would like to add to what you said about therapists. Don't ask them for career advice. They'll send you to to organizations who really don't get it like Voc Rehab. I'll tell some of my experiences if you want when I get a chance.
I met with a specialized career counselor when I was 29. She was a licensed therapist, but her specialty was jobs/work. She was actually pretty good. She did a little bit of that cooing noise, but it wasn't anywhere near as mocking as how a family therapist I saw did it. Plus, I had access to alcohol and cigarettes, which she knew and didn't judge me for. Most importantly, she referred me to a labor attorney who taught me some brilliant ideas; I used that knowledge to get my boss fired, while I kept my job. Even upper management was afraid of me after that. She also referred me to a doctor who prescribed me Klonopin; that's some powerful stuff, it totally obliterated my anxiety! Although, I feel happier from the Effexor I take today.

Please share what happened with Voc Rehab. It sounds pretty awful.



cubedemon6073
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02 Aug 2020, 7:58 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
I would like to add to what you said about therapists. Don't ask them for career advice. They'll send you to to organizations who really don't get it like Voc Rehab. I'll tell some of my experiences if you want when I get a chance.
I met with a specialized career counselor when I was 29. She was a licensed therapist, but her specialty was jobs/work. She was actually pretty good. She did a little bit of that cooing noise, but it wasn't anywhere near as mocking as how a family therapist I saw did it. Plus, I had access to alcohol and cigarettes, which she knew and didn't judge me for. Most importantly, she referred me to a labor attorney who taught me some brilliant ideas; I used that knowledge to get my boss fired, while I kept my job. Even upper management was afraid of me after that. She also referred me to a doctor who prescribed me Klonopin; that's some powerful stuff, it totally obliterated my anxiety! Although, I feel happier from the Effexor I take today.

Please share what happened with Voc Rehab. It sounds pretty awful.


I'm going to start off with my 2nd time I went to Voc Rehab. First, Voc Rehab contracts out to private organizations.

They sent me to one organization. I went to this thing for a month before I said something. They had me doing stuff for Marshalls like putting tags on shoes and other clothing, sizing up clothing, organizing items, etc, etc. They said I needed to do this for a month. I went with it and didn't ask any questions. A month passed. They told me I needed an another month. I asked them through cell phone texting why they believed this to be so. The woman said to improve my social skills. I was extremely confused. I asked her how was putting tag on shoes, organizing items, sizing up clothes, etc etc improving my social skills? She didn't answer. And, the kicker is this. The job coach or the guy who was in charge of us yelled at me. Here is what happened. He said he had to manage another team at Marshalls in Griffin. I knew Griffin was a country area and I was curious that it had a Marshalls. I didn't realize this and I was just curious. I looked it up on my cell phone cause I wanted to see what that area was like. Nothing more! The guy started yelling at me because of of the store employees (don't know who and don't know why they were in my business) saying I was keeping tabs on him or something like that. I was so confused. I was like whaaa? I said "No, I was just simply curious that there was a Marshalls in Griffin which was a country area. I didn't think there was. He still yelled at me and threatened me. I was pissed and wanted to smash his face in or at least tell the guy to eat a dick and walk out.

I complained to Voc Rehab and they had me go to a 2nd organization. All they kept doing was having us watch motivational videos by Eric Thomas. https://www.youtube.com/user/etthehiphoppreacher This told me nothing and gave me no specific steps as to what I was supposed to do to get a job in IT. I don't want f*****g motivation. It isn't my goddamned attitude that's the f*****g problem. I literally don't get the hiring process and I needed guidance as to what I was supposed to do to get into IT especially when everyone requires experience. WTF was I supposed to do. I needed guidance and help and I got none for years. Anyway, she had us fill out answers to what she thought were possible interview questions. And, then she had us regurgitate our answers over and over again. And, then she had us look online for jobs. I f*****g DID THIS AT HOME! It doesn't work. The stuff she had me do for the most part I already did at home.

And, then she had us answer a possible secnario that employers may ask. I'm given $10 for food for the week. What do I do? How are we supposed to answer this. I told her I could eat grass or survive in the woods. Was it like survivor? The question was so vague. Did I even have to survive? I mean if I put a bullet to my head and died wouldn't the $10 last for that week? I had the feeling though she would've called 911 on me so I didn't tell her this part and I would've been placed in the loony bin. But, the question made no sense. There was little background or context to it.



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02 Aug 2020, 8:11 pm

MariaBoy wrote:
Hello,

I am the mother of 5 year old non verbal asd boy. I have noticed something and I would really appreciate your ideas on what to do. Basically, my son tends to hide his skills and potentials. Maybe, it is a way to make people give up and stop bothering him, I don’t really know. For example, if you ask him to bring a ball, first, he will ignore you. After you insist, he will do his best to show you that he doesn’t understand you. He will bring a teddy bear or any other thing but not a ball. You might think he doesn’t understand, and his teachers think so, too. However, this is a boy who reads, counts and knows a lot more than he shows. Finally, I said to him that I am 100% sure that he understands me and that he should help me like his brothers and he did it. This attitude hinders his progress. What to do?


Maria

Your boy is brilliant. That's exactly what he is doing. I wish I would've thought of doing things like that so I wasn't forced to do things I couldn't do. Give the boy a cigar!! !! !



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06 Aug 2020, 2:39 am

Thanks a lot for all the ideas. I have no doubt that he is smart and very cheeky. I just want him to take responsibilities like his brothers. And I want him to show his abilities so that others don’t underestimate him. I am already pulling him from school, as they told me that they knew he is bright but since he doesn’t generalize, they have no other option but to keep making him do the silly stuff that he already knows! And though he reads, they told me he isn’t ready to be taught reading!! ! What does this even mean?



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06 Aug 2020, 7:25 am

MariaBoy wrote:
Thanks a lot for all the ideas. I have no doubt that he is smart and very cheeky. I just want him to take responsibilities like his brothers.

Perhaps the ASD out of spoons and personality intelligence/humor both. Because you seem to be an open caring parent, I am going to write more than I normally would (unmasking if you will). Take what you want -the first three paragraphs? maybe five, and leave the rest --- in the last paragraph I'm amusing myself by "overthinking". Really I could go on forever. Thinking is fun. Fetching things, not so much.

Intelligence: My son is NT and I am ASD but we share the same type of intelligence and humor. (My ASD daughter is more like my NT husband in intelligence type). My NT son and I both love to go through the process of elimination. He knows what we are looking for but will point out all the wrong things first. I understand this "play" so happily go along with him, my NT husband doesn't get it at all.

I like to think that at work, first looking in the "wrong" places (or providing the "wrong" item) leads to some otherwise unknown discoveries. Imagine: "I thought I needed a ball, but now that you've brought me this teddy bear - it changes everything! I didn't know I needed this! Now that I have this is occurs to me that...." ha, ha, ha. The ball is boring, what you make of the teddy bear in that same situation... that's interesting.

Spoons: My NT husband often wants the children to comply (from my perspective just for compliance sake) which drives me up the wall. As my type of ASD person it's natural for me to give compelling reasons. I usually get the ball myself (I need the exercise) but sometimes ask and will say (I am capable of getting 3 of 5 things, I need your help for the 1 or 2 other things...).

My ASD daughter is generally not helpful (I fill her schedule to the point it matches the "down" time she needs) and yesterday she asked me to fetch something for her and I simply pointed out the piles of books I was holding and she went and got the item herself. However, if I weren't holding the books, I would have gotten it for her. I love to be of service for my children. I do not feel this spoils them, in particular for my ASD daughter b/c she she is very independent (as I was) unless she's stressed (low spoons). I rarely ask my children to do anything, so when I do they often comply without question (of course I provide "real" reasons). On the other hand my NT husband's request are often the compliance-only thing (which some people see as promoting "helpfulness") and my ASD daughter and I both mildly resent it. It's a "lie" to us - you don't really need us to get that (and we only have so many spoons you know and I don't want to explain that to you and every All The Time, that take spoons too).

Did your son know exactly where the ball was? Gosh forbid I didn't know where the yellow ball was and I wasn't told specifically where. If my husband asks me to "fetch" something from the garage, I have a panic attack. Where exactly? "It's in there, you'll see it". The garage is not my realm and being the visually hypersensitive ASD type I see EVERYTHING when I open the garage door and can't pick out the yellow ball. My mind is filled with thoughts of all the items my eyes are touching on... and [escaping back to the house] here is the teddy bear which is comforting and I knew EXACTLY where it was. Now I just organize over 1,000 pieces of my son's LEGOs last month and if you ask me to fetch the dark gray 2x2x8 --- I'll get that to you in a second (no joke) ---- or that black 1x1x1 with the upward facing hook, or the yellow 2x4x1½ (it's not a ball) --- I've got you covered.

So my type of helpfulness is Thinking, Special Interests, Compassion, I leave the "fetching" type of helpfulness (as an adult, providing dinners for those with illnesses or grieving) to others. Perhaps your son will not be very helpful "like his brothers" in that way. So it's worthwhile to see he can do it, if needed, but it's not going to be an every day thing.



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06 Aug 2020, 7:41 am

MariaBoy wrote:
And I want him to show his abilities so that others don’t underestimate him. I am already pulling him from school, as they told me that they knew he is bright but since he doesn’t generalize, they have no other option but to keep making him do the silly stuff that he already knows! And though he reads, they told me he isn’t ready to be taught reading!! ! What does this even mean?

It is also completely frustrating to me that some folks can't see my ASD daughters abilities. Particularly for my ASD daughter --- one teacher said she wasn't gifted b/c she didn't show the correct "motivation" which was the deciding factor since my although my daughter speaks, she doesn't speak much and kept repeating "are we done yet" during the VERBAL test, which similarly was interpreted as lack of giftedness as opposed to verbal discomfort. Thankfully the next year's teacher had a different perspective and the situation was corrected (recently). At age 9, she is in her first gifted science (summer) class and for the first time ever in her life she is spontaneously talked to me about it. Again (because I am in happy disbelief), she talks but not much and I think she talked to me more yesterday about the science experiment than she has her entire life. I'll hold this little gem and look forward to another... in good time. I imagine you have some gems you are holding to --- your son's notes for now... :heart:

BTW ---- I absolutely have had to advocate for my ASD daughter as even the open, well-meaning teachers don't see past her masking. Up until now I have prompted her for others to witness ("do you want to do a higher level of math?") or spoken for her. Now at age 9, she is starting to advocate for herself... (and asks us to stand nearby but not say anything). Wishing you are similarly impressed soon... in whatever way your son figures out how to navigate this strange world.