My fourth-grader is shutting down at school.

Post Reply New Topic

Here's a list of recent behaviors:

-Got a pink slip for sassing his teacher and not doing any work

-Didn't get them signed, so he was given more

-Had to do custodial work as punishment. He enjoyed it, so they set him in the office alone instead

-Got upset because he had to stay in from lunch recess, so he wouldn't let go of the teacher's desk and wouldn't talk. I had to carry him out to the car

-Today he wouldn't walk in line at lunch. He also broke up his pencil and told his teacher "Now you can't make me do the work."

He's gifted but too immature for the gifted program. We are trying to find a good psychologist in Utah county, but I'm sure there will be an epic waiting list. Frustrating.

Does he have an IEP?

He sounds frustrated. Is the school doing anything to bend towards him, or does he have to do all the bending?

This is a good thread that started today:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp2690712.html#2690712

Maybe just take the flaming that appears to have started with a grain of salt.

I have been through the pink slips, I wrote about it there...

This school is fairly accomodating. There are two aspie-aware classroom aids in the room. They are there for a kid with an IEP, but he benefits indirectly. We are going to try and get him to a psychologist and then I guess we get to work on an IEP, but I'm really not sure what it would look like at this point.

Sounds familiar. My son has had an IEP since 1st grade, and in 4th grade we used the IEP process to get him a one-to-one aide. The IEP process can also be used to provide your child with accomodations such as extra time for assignments, built-in "break periods" in a quiet room to decompress, and it can also include a behavior plan that spells out what the consequences will be for bad and good behavior. The IEP is a living, flexible document, and one way to use it is to try different accomodations and strategies, see what works and what doesnt, and stick with the ideas that work. Good luck!

I would second what DW said... based on your description it sounds like the school may be a bit of a brick wall that he keeps bumping up against. I'm not a fan of most of the approaches you mentioned in your post - even for NT kids - but especially for Aspies.

What was the "sassing" specifically?

I received more information today when I got home. He was behind on his spelling, which he finds tedious, and in part because we forgot to send it back to school with him. He felt like he was so behind that he couldn't get caught up, and they had held him in from two recesses before he acted up.

I'm not sure what his sassing was, I think it was along the lines of slamming workbooks shut after his teacher opened them and saying things like, "I don't have to do what you say."

The school is willing to work with us and they're not trying to be the monsters. We just need to figure out something that works.

A friend sent me this pop-up iep advocate webpage: http://www.unco.edu/ncssd/ssnIEP/index.shtml

You are the expert on your child, and you have the best sense of how the school is doing. But if you are interested in an alternate viewpoint... I would personally not find it acceptable to keep a child in from recess if recess if something that is crucial to his success at school (I don't know if that's true for your son or not, it is true for mine - his school was under strict orders from me to never remove recess privileges as a 'punishiment'). Doing so exaccerbates the problem, rather than helping to solve it.

I would be uncomfortable with the giving of pink slips for showing frustration in a quasi-acceptable way (ie, he slammed the books closed and used his words - which by the way - were true words - he does NOT have to do what she says) - as opposed to throwing the books, calling her a bad name, etc. I would be concerned that the teacher is not responding to his frustration in a useful manner, and is instead resorting to traditional 'teaching' methods where you just keep punishing and taking more and more privileges away until you break the child's will.

I'm not a fan of those methods, but as I said you are the expert on your child so if you feel this approach will work for him, and won't make him resent being sent to school, then by all means see how it goes. But I would recommend keeping an eye on whether the methods are really working to get him back to a place where he is successful and happy at school, because if he truly is 'shutting down', then you have a limited window of opportunity to get him back on track. Bear in mind that school staff don't have to be monsters to be completely ineffective.

I don't want to sound like the apologist for authority here, because his last teacher was an evil b*tch who was supported by her institution in ways that were not beneficial for the students.

However, Joey's teacher and aid are really easy going. They like him, they joke with him and are as accomodating as they know how to be. I think he should be in recess--you're right. He is primarily fussing about doing his spelling work, which is tedious. As an accommodation I may have him use spelling quiz software rather than write out pages of words. We have a lot of research to do. We may have him take a week off of school too.

Sounds like you have things well in hand cainarc If spelling is driving him nuts, there are lots of creative ways he can still learn how to spell words without the tedious fine motor aspect that may be getting the way of his learning.

I never understood why people are so adamant about their child learning things like spelling and handwriting. Most written communication today is done by computer, not by hand. Which means if you can't spell you can always use spell checker, and if you can't write, you can type. I think I misspell about 5% of the words that I type, but it never is a problem because I can use spell checker before I send it off.

I have the same problem with people who try to get their kids to memorize random vocab words that haven't been used in common speech for 2 centuries.

I agree about the focus on handwriting being outdated. It's not an essential skill anymore - being able to print legibly, yes, handwriting, no. But spelling is a bit different. Being a very poor speller can be interpreted as a reflection on intelligence, which is why I think it is still important to know how to spell words. But you do NOT have to make kids write words over and over and over to learn how to spell.

The single greatest technique for teaching spelling, is teaching latin derivatives.

Well, yes I agree that knowing how to print legibly (even if it takes a while) and write out basic words is important. My problem isn't with that. My problem is when the spelling tests make sure you know how to spell words like eponymous, xylophone, or incongruity. Those are words you are never going to use on forms at the doctor's office. If this was first grade and the person was still learning basic words then I could see them being useful, but by the time you get to fourth grade, the vocab words start getting ridiculous.

See if he is being bothered in the classroom by anything. My son had a very hard time in fourth grade. He couldn't sit still so when he would fidget, he felt like the girl behind him was "yelling" at him for moving all the time. When I discussed this with his teacher, found out the female student was a very soft spoken girl that was just tired of being distracted by my son's constant moving. If my son heard critisim (sp?) he would interpret it as yelling. He was very intelligent and would get called ret*d because of it. It was a form of bullying.

These "little" things can add up and cause someone to "act out" and seem to be the trouble maker instead.

Since his teacher is willing to work with you, and that is a good thing, discuss what may be happening in the classroom that may be "the cause".

Talk with him about his take on "the cause".

Also, things that came easily to my son and he found tedious to do as homework, we were able to work out that he could do "every other, or every third math problem" so the teacher still knew he knew the math. On spelling, he only had to do the things once, no repitition since he proved on spelling tests that he knew the words. So if your son is learning the words quickly, maybe they can just test him on them and be done with it?