RE: Kids w/ Classic Autism, PDD-NOS & Speech Delays

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cyberdad
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13 Apr 2012, 7:20 pm

blondeambition wrote:
He said that Heath's Prozac dose may not be high enough to sufficiently control his symptoms of OCD (the SSRI dosage requirement for OCD is much higher than for regular depression and other things treated with SSRIs).


I've just started my 6yr old daughter on 10mg/day of Prozac along with her 20mg/day of Ritalin.

Observing her this morning I have to admit the tantrums and noise sensitivity seem to have abated? early days yet.



nostromo
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14 Apr 2012, 1:59 am

cyberdad wrote:
blondeambition wrote:
He said that Heath's Prozac dose may not be high enough to sufficiently control his symptoms of OCD (the SSRI dosage requirement for OCD is much higher than for regular depression and other things treated with SSRIs).


I've just started my 6yr old daughter on 10mg/day of Prozac along with her 20mg/day of Ritalin.

Observing her this morning I have to admit the tantrums and noise sensitivity seem to have abated? early days yet.

Good for you. This week my son has been very difficult..he's always been a chilled out Dude, but I started to think that maybe as he grows and develops and becomes more aware the anxiety was coming along too, however he's back to normal, and I think I worked out the problems. But the medication thoughts had started to occur to me.
I'm at home on day 3 of soloing it, my wife is across the ditch in Melbourne for a holiday..IIRC thats kinda out your way isn't it cyberdad?



cyberdad
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14 Apr 2012, 5:09 am

nostromo wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
blondeambition wrote:
He said that Heath's Prozac dose may not be high enough to sufficiently control his symptoms of OCD (the SSRI dosage requirement for OCD is much higher than for regular depression and other things treated with SSRIs).


I've just started my 6yr old daughter on 10mg/day of Prozac along with her 20mg/day of Ritalin.

Observing her this morning I have to admit the tantrums and noise sensitivity seem to have abated? early days yet.

Good for you. This week my son has been very difficult..he's always been a chilled out Dude, but I started to think that maybe as he grows and develops and becomes more aware the anxiety was coming along too, however he's back to normal, and I think I worked out the problems. But the medication thoughts had started to occur to me.
I'm at home on day 3 of soloing it, my wife is across the ditch in Melbourne for a holiday..IIRC thats kinda out your way isn't it cyberdad?


I've been stalling for at least 6 months. In the last 2 weeks her aggressive tantrums and sensitivity to noise has been more intense than before. Today (post-prozac) she has been exceptionally serene and slightly more verbal than she usually is. In particular she has been bubbly and cheerful, giggling a fair bit. It's a good sign, we'll continue the dosage tomorrow assuming she has no sleep problems.

Yes I live in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. Is your wife here on holidays or visiting relatives? anyway hope she enjoys the beautiful sunny weather.



blondeambition
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14 Apr 2012, 1:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:
nostromo wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
blondeambition wrote:
He said that Heath's Prozac dose may not be high enough to sufficiently control his symptoms of OCD (the SSRI dosage requirement for OCD is much higher than for regular depression and other things treated with SSRIs).


I've just started my 6yr old daughter on 10mg/day of Prozac along with her 20mg/day of Ritalin.

Observing her this morning I have to admit the tantrums and noise sensitivity seem to have abated? early days yet.

Good for you. This week my son has been very difficult..he's always been a chilled out Dude, but I started to think that maybe as he grows and develops and becomes more aware the anxiety was coming along too, however he's back to normal, and I think I worked out the problems. But the medication thoughts had started to occur to me.
I'm at home on day 3 of soloing it, my wife is across the ditch in Melbourne for a holiday..IIRC thats kinda out your way isn't it cyberdad?


I've been stalling for at least 6 months. In the last 2 weeks her aggressive tantrums and sensitivity to noise has been more intense than before. Today (post-prozac) she has been exceptionally serene and slightly more verbal than she usually is. In particular she has been bubbly and cheerful, giggling a fair bit. It's a good sign, we'll continue the dosage tomorrow assuming she has no sleep problems.

Yes I live in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. Is your wife here on holidays or visiting relatives? anyway hope she enjoys the beautiful sunny weather.


I'm glad that the meds seem to be going well. Sometimes, it takes up to 6 weeks for the Prozac to have full effect.

My older son with classic autism had some hyperactivity with Prozac when he first got on it and whenever he goes up on his dose (a common side effect). However, my younger son never had this side effect. I've started using it, too, I'll admit (2 kids on the spectrum, a husband with bipolar, my own past history of anxiety disorders, and not enough help--I got to the point of experiencing anxiety on a daily basis). I've not personally had any negative side effects, and it helps me stay calm and collected even when there is a house filled with challenges.

I admit that I've been super busy this week, doing my family's taxes and then starting to prepare lessons and get organized for summer break, which starts at the beginning of June.


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www.freevideosforautistickids.com is my website with hundreds of links and thousands of educational videos for kids, parents and educators. Son with high-functioning classic autism, aged 7, and son with OCD/Aspergers, aged 4. I love my boys!


nostromo
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14 Apr 2012, 3:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:
nostromo wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
blondeambition wrote:
He said that Heath's Prozac dose may not be high enough to sufficiently control his symptoms of OCD (the SSRI dosage requirement for OCD is much higher than for regular depression and other things treated with SSRIs).


I've just started my 6yr old daughter on 10mg/day of Prozac along with her 20mg/day of Ritalin.

Observing her this morning I have to admit the tantrums and noise sensitivity seem to have abated? early days yet.

Good for you. This week my son has been very difficult..he's always been a chilled out Dude, but I started to think that maybe as he grows and develops and becomes more aware the anxiety was coming along too, however he's back to normal, and I think I worked out the problems. But the medication thoughts had started to occur to me.
I'm at home on day 3 of soloing it, my wife is across the ditch in Melbourne for a holiday..IIRC thats kinda out your way isn't it cyberdad?


I've been stalling for at least 6 months. In the last 2 weeks her aggressive tantrums and sensitivity to noise has been more intense than before. Today (post-prozac) she has been exceptionally serene and slightly more verbal than she usually is. In particular she has been bubbly and cheerful, giggling a fair bit. It's a good sign, we'll continue the dosage tomorrow assuming she has no sleep problems.

Thats a good result, it sounds like thats definately the right thing to have tried.
cyberdad wrote:
Yes I live in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. Is your wife here on holidays or visiting relatives? anyway hope she enjoys the beautiful sunny weather.

Holiday with her Mum; its a Mum and Daughter shopping/ eating/ relaxing /taking time out from Autism/visit my bro and his family trip. Melbourne seems to be a favoured destination here for Mums to get away for a 'girlie' type break, not my thing of course but she is enjoying it, and that makes me :)



cyberdad
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14 Apr 2012, 11:17 pm

blondeambition wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
nostromo wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
blondeambition wrote:
He said that Heath's Prozac dose may not be high enough to sufficiently control his symptoms of OCD (the SSRI dosage requirement for OCD is much higher than for regular depression and other things treated with SSRIs).


I've just started my 6yr old daughter on 10mg/day of Prozac along with her 20mg/day of Ritalin.

Observing her this morning I have to admit the tantrums and noise sensitivity seem to have abated? early days yet.

Good for you. This week my son has been very difficult..he's always been a chilled out Dude, but I started to think that maybe as he grows and develops and becomes more aware the anxiety was coming along too, however he's back to normal, and I think I worked out the problems. But the medication thoughts had started to occur to me.
I'm at home on day 3 of soloing it, my wife is across the ditch in Melbourne for a holiday..IIRC thats kinda out your way isn't it cyberdad?


I've been stalling for at least 6 months. In the last 2 weeks her aggressive tantrums and sensitivity to noise has been more intense than before. Today (post-prozac) she has been exceptionally serene and slightly more verbal than she usually is. In particular she has been bubbly and cheerful, giggling a fair bit. It's a good sign, we'll continue the dosage tomorrow assuming she has no sleep problems.

Yes I live in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. Is your wife here on holidays or visiting relatives? anyway hope she enjoys the beautiful sunny weather.


I'm glad that the meds seem to be going well. Sometimes, it takes up to 6 weeks for the Prozac to have full effect.

My older son with classic autism had some hyperactivity with Prozac when he first got on it and whenever he goes up on his dose (a common side effect). However, my younger son never had this side effect. I've started using it, too, I'll admit (2 kids on the spectrum, a husband with bipolar, my own past history of anxiety disorders, and not enough help--I got to the point of experiencing anxiety on a daily basis). I've not personally had any negative side effects, and it helps me stay calm and collected even when there is a house filled with challenges.

I admit that I've been super busy this week, doing my family's taxes and then starting to prepare lessons and get organized for summer break, which starts at the beginning of June.


I'll admit, I was reluctant at first, but Day 2 on Prozac and she just spent 4 hrs in the swimming pool and has been quite the little angel. I'll stop there, as my wife says lets not jinx this good luck.



cyberdad
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14 Apr 2012, 11:18 pm

nostromo wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
nostromo wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
blondeambition wrote:
He said that Heath's Prozac dose may not be high enough to sufficiently control his symptoms of OCD (the SSRI dosage requirement for OCD is much higher than for regular depression and other things treated with SSRIs).


I've just started my 6yr old daughter on 10mg/day of Prozac along with her 20mg/day of Ritalin.

Observing her this morning I have to admit the tantrums and noise sensitivity seem to have abated? early days yet.

Good for you. This week my son has been very difficult..he's always been a chilled out Dude, but I started to think that maybe as he grows and develops and becomes more aware the anxiety was coming along too, however he's back to normal, and I think I worked out the problems. But the medication thoughts had started to occur to me.
I'm at home on day 3 of soloing it, my wife is across the ditch in Melbourne for a holiday..IIRC thats kinda out your way isn't it cyberdad?


I've been stalling for at least 6 months. In the last 2 weeks her aggressive tantrums and sensitivity to noise has been more intense than before. Today (post-prozac) she has been exceptionally serene and slightly more verbal than she usually is. In particular she has been bubbly and cheerful, giggling a fair bit. It's a good sign, we'll continue the dosage tomorrow assuming she has no sleep problems.

Thats a good result, it sounds like thats definately the right thing to have tried.
cyberdad wrote:
Yes I live in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. Is your wife here on holidays or visiting relatives? anyway hope she enjoys the beautiful sunny weather.

Holiday with her Mum; its a Mum and Daughter shopping/ eating/ relaxing /taking time out from Autism/visit my bro and his family trip. Melbourne seems to be a favoured destination here for Mums to get away for a 'girlie' type break, not my thing of course but she is enjoying it, and that makes me :)


My wife goes to Auckland for R&R :wink:



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20 Apr 2012, 6:28 am

I hope this is an okay place to post this question. My colleagues and I (preschool teacher) are trying to persuade the mother of a 3-year-old boy in my class to take him to get properly evaluated and diagnosed. I have AS and I recognized autism in him right away, but much more severe than what I have. (See the "asperger or classic autism?" thread I started if anyone is interested in specifics.) He speaks almost constantly but it's almost entirely echoing and we can't get him to understand anything via verbal explanations. While we wait for the mother to get over her (already 6-month) denial to get him diagnosed so we can get him an assistant, we have to deal with him in addition to the 24 other kids, several of whom have hyperactivity and behavioral problems - we can't keep someone with him all the time anymore, but if we leave him alone for even a second there are huge problems.

The key problem right now seems to be aggression. He doesn't understand that pushing/hitting/etc. is bad, or that the others don't like it. We can explain until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't change a thing. He laughs as he shoves other kids to the ground (he enjoys slamming into the ground and doesn't seem to feel pain, so there's zero empathy). I'm abandoning verbal explanations as useless now. I have had occasional, partial success by grabbing him after he does something bad, getting him to look at my face (fortunately he's one of those rare ones who doesn't fear eye contact), putting on a tearful expression and saying simply "I am sad" while pointing at what he did. Now and then he seems to get it for a minute - the smile disappears and he calms down and stops the behavior. But it doesn't last long and it doesn't always work.

I've heard that some people have had success using pictures, however I'm not sure how to illustrate pushing or hitting in a way that he will be able to understand. I'm thinking that animation would be much more effective - one kid pushing another, the victim crying and being sad, the pusher realizing his mistake and apologizing, for example. But I don't know of any such resources.

Does anyone know where I could find something like this? Or maybe some pictures/comics that have been successful with other kids with verbal communication problems? I'd really appreciate anything that can help us out until we manage to persuade the mother that she can't just sit in denial forever.

By the way, the boy is Czech, only knows a few words of English, so any materials would really need to be fully non-verbal. Thanks a lot in advance for any advice!



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20 Apr 2012, 6:59 am

kotshka wrote:
I hope this is an okay place to post this question. My colleagues and I (preschool teacher) are trying to persuade the mother of a 3-year-old boy in my class to take him to get properly evaluated and diagnosed. I have AS and I recognized autism in him right away, but much more severe than what I have. (See the "asperger or classic autism?" thread I started if anyone is interested in specifics.) He speaks almost constantly but it's almost entirely echoing and we can't get him to understand anything via verbal explanations. While we wait for the mother to get over her (already 6-month) denial to get him diagnosed so we can get him an assistant, we have to deal with him in addition to the 24 other kids, several of whom have hyperactivity and behavioral problems - we can't keep someone with him all the time anymore, but if we leave him alone for even a second there are huge problems.

The key problem right now seems to be aggression. He doesn't understand that pushing/hitting/etc. is bad, or that the others don't like it. We can explain until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't change a thing. He laughs as he shoves other kids to the ground (he enjoys slamming into the ground and doesn't seem to feel pain, so there's zero empathy). I'm abandoning verbal explanations as useless now. I have had occasional, partial success by grabbing him after he does something bad, getting him to look at my face (fortunately he's one of those rare ones who doesn't fear eye contact), putting on a tearful expression and saying simply "I am sad" while pointing at what he did. Now and then he seems to get it for a minute - the smile disappears and he calms down and stops the behavior. But it doesn't last long and it doesn't always work.

I've heard that some people have had success using pictures, however I'm not sure how to illustrate pushing or hitting in a way that he will be able to understand. I'm thinking that animation would be much more effective - one kid pushing another, the victim crying and being sad, the pusher realizing his mistake and apologizing, for example. But I don't know of any such resources.

Does anyone know where I could find something like this? Or maybe some pictures/comics that have been successful with other kids with verbal communication problems? I'd really appreciate anything that can help us out until we manage to persuade the mother that she can't just sit in denial forever.

By the way, the boy is Czech, only knows a few words of English, so any materials would really need to be fully non-verbal. Thanks a lot in advance for any advice!


All of my resources on my free website (www.freevideosforautistickids.com) are in English. However, one option would be to choose something from the "social skills" section and turn the audio off. Then you would pretty much need to provide the audio by talking to the students about what is happening on the screen.

I think that the mom really needs to be more of a help--either placing the child in an appropriate program if one is available or working with the child at home. Here in the U. S., one preschool teacher arranged a meeting with my husband and me and told me that my son was autistic. That preschool agreed to keep him until he could be seen by a doctor for an evaluation and placed in a different situation. Another preschool threw him out.

The parent may be in denial partly because she fears her son being thrown out of the preschool and she doesn't know where to place him if that were to occur. If there are good government services that she could be using or a government service that does evaluations, you might print that information out and hand it to her.


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www.freevideosforautistickids.com is my website with hundreds of links and thousands of educational videos for kids, parents and educators. Son with high-functioning classic autism, aged 7, and son with OCD/Aspergers, aged 4. I love my boys!


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20 Apr 2012, 9:38 am

I'm afraid the denial is due to other reasons which are far more complicated and difficult to solve. You can see the details in the thread I made in this forum, the "asperger or classic autism?" one. The short version is, it has to do with the cultural background and the history of this country.

Anyway thanks for the link. I'll have a look. Today I tried drawing some pictures (crude, but the best I could do) and talking to him about them. He was able to identify which person was happy and which was sad, and we talked through a short comic with one boy pushing another and the pushed one being hurt, then the pusher apologizing and both being happy at the end. He seemed to understand what was going on in each picture but it remains to be seen whether he really does or is just faking it again. Anyway I take it as a very good sign that I asked if a crying face was happy and he replied "Sad!"

I'll try to prepare some better materials for Monday. I'm sort of looking forward to it actually. I really love this kid! I only wish I could focus more energy on him rather than having to deal with all the other kids at the school all day. :)



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20 Apr 2012, 11:48 am

kotshka wrote:
I'm afraid the denial is due to other reasons which are far more complicated and difficult to solve. You can see the details in the thread I made in this forum, the "asperger or classic autism?" one. The short version is, it has to do with the cultural background and the history of this country.

Anyway thanks for the link. I'll have a look. Today I tried drawing some pictures (crude, but the best I could do) and talking to him about them. He was able to identify which person was happy and which was sad, and we talked through a short comic with one boy pushing another and the pushed one being hurt, then the pusher apologizing and both being happy at the end. He seemed to understand what was going on in each picture but it remains to be seen whether he really does or is just faking it again. Anyway I take it as a very good sign that I asked if a crying face was happy and he replied "Sad!"

I'll try to prepare some better materials for Monday. I'm sort of looking forward to it actually. I really love this kid! I only wish I could focus more energy on him rather than having to deal with all the other kids at the school all day. :)


http://www.freevideosforautistickids.co ... ids_1.html

Above, you can see some flashcards that I made for my son with classic autism when he was three. We were working on asking and answering questions. As you can see, I'm not really much of an artist. However, that didn't matter to him. As you can see, I basically drew the same image on both sides of the card with simple text above it. I would read the questions and answers aloud. Eventually, he caught on and started to read the answers or just say them himself. Making some of the flashcards funny is helpful, especially if your drawings are not good enough to keep his attention.

I taught my son a large picture word vocabulary with flashcards, books, and videos before we got to this point. He also knew phonics/letter sounds also because he had a whole lot of phonics and alphabet videos.

The child is lucky to have you. Unfortunately, many parents never really accept the situation (even here in the U. S.). Also, many parents who accept that the child has autism are not up to the challenge of working with the child or using their own time and resources to help the child.


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20 Apr 2012, 2:45 pm

The preschool may be enabling the parent's denial by allowing the boy to stay in the class.



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20 Apr 2012, 3:16 pm

Thanks for the link blondeambition!

Washi, I see your point, but in this country there aren't a lot of options. If we kick him out of our school - a private Montessori preschool where we can be flexible and work with him however we need to (though we really do need more help, and therefore a diagnosis) - he will end up in another school where, given the national level of ignorance regarding autism (and the prejudice against mental and physical difference which lingers even 20 years after the fall of communism), it is likely he will be treated as though he has a behavior problem and constantly punished. He will never get the help he needs and his development will be severely delayed if not permanently damaged. At least in our school he has me - I know what he's experiencing and most of the time I know how to deal with him. There's only a few things I need help with, hence my appeal to you all. :) But I definitely am a better guide for him than anyone he would find in another school.

So yes, it might be easier for the mother to stay in denial as long as we let him stay in the school. For that very reason, my boss is considering threatening to throw him out (though I don't think she would actually do it, I think she just hopes the threat will be enough of a shock). But as for actually throwing him out, I think it would be bad for him. Whether the parents are in denial or not, I feel a responsibility to help him however I can, and kicking him into another school would not help for sure.



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20 Apr 2012, 3:53 pm

Don't know what to suggest, but good luck and I think you are a wonderful person kotshka for caring about this boy, and going out of your way to try and help the situation.



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22 Apr 2012, 1:50 am

kotshka wrote:
Washi, I see your point, but in this country there aren't a lot of options. If we kick him out of our school - a private Montessori preschool where we can be flexible and work with him however we need to (though we really do need more help, and therefore a diagnosis) - he will end up in another school where, given the national level of ignorance regarding autism (and the prejudice against mental and physical difference which lingers even 20 years after the fall of communism), it is likely he will be treated as though he has a behavior problem and constantly punished. He will never get the help he needs and his development will be severely delayed if not permanently damaged. At least in our school he has me - I know what he's experiencing and most of the time I know how to deal with him. There's only a few things I need help with, hence my appeal to you all. :) But I definitely am a better guide for him than anyone he would find in another school.
.


I hope the parents have a change of heart because it sounds like your choices are either to have him removed from the school or to keep doing what you're doing by looking out for him while he is there which is very kind. If anyone else there care as much as you do then perhaps you could take turns shadowing him so that he doesn't push the other kids.


Progress update: My son started asking me "what is this?" questions for the first time last night (bags of beans and lentils and twist-ties from the kitchen) and he was playing with a drawing game on Nick Jr. and opened a text box and unprompted he typed in "mom"! :D I'm going to see if I can get him to type more words tomorrow. I also got him to play Candy Land which I got him for Christmas but he's only just now able to focus enough to play, he only sort of gets it and tends to take my piece off the board and run off half-way through, but still progress.



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22 Apr 2012, 7:07 am

Washi wrote:
kotshka wrote:
Washi, I see your point, but in this country there aren't a lot of options. If we kick him out of our school - a private Montessori preschool where we can be flexible and work with him however we need to (though we really do need more help, and therefore a diagnosis) - he will end up in another school where, given the national level of ignorance regarding autism (and the prejudice against mental and physical difference which lingers even 20 years after the fall of communism), it is likely he will be treated as though he has a behavior problem and constantly punished. He will never get the help he needs and his development will be severely delayed if not permanently damaged. At least in our school he has me - I know what he's experiencing and most of the time I know how to deal with him. There's only a few things I need help with, hence my appeal to you all. :) But I definitely am a better guide for him than anyone he would find in another school.
.


I hope the parents have a change of heart because it sounds like your choices are either to have him removed from the school or to keep doing what you're doing by looking out for him while he is there which is very kind. If anyone else there care as much as you do then perhaps you could take turns shadowing him so that he doesn't push the other kids.


Progress update: My son started asking me "what is this?" questions for the first time last night (bags of beans and lentils and twist-ties from the kitchen) and he was playing with a drawing game on Nick Jr. and opened a text box and unprompted he typed in "mom"! :D I'm going to see if I can get him to type more words tomorrow. I also got him to play Candy Land which I got him for Christmas but he's only just now able to focus enough to play, he only sort of gets it and tends to take my piece off the board and run off half-way through, but still progress.


That is wonderful that your son has started to ask questions! Questions were so hard for my older to son. My younger son loves to ask questions (and will sometimes ask the same question over and over). He has some issues answering questions, but not as much as my older son.


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www.freevideosforautistickids.com is my website with hundreds of links and thousands of educational videos for kids, parents and educators. Son with high-functioning classic autism, aged 7, and son with OCD/Aspergers, aged 4. I love my boys!