Dad's Intuition, does it exist? Noonelse thinks so! HELP!

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JsDad183
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02 Apr 2012, 4:37 pm

Hi all, I'm new here, and not even sure if I belong. My head is kind of a mess, so please pardon anything I say wrong. I know Autism is a touchy subject, especially with parents. I am not sure if I belong here, this is why I need some help from you as a commnity. This will probably be to long winded for most, for that I'm sorry.
Here goes: My daughter is quickly approaching 3 years old and some of the things she does has me worried. Unfortunately the information on the internet has not made me feel any more secure. The first sign of a problem occured around the 1 1/2 year area. She was eating something (sorry don't remember what it was) and all of a sudden my wife and I noticed her tense her jaw and start to quiver. The episode lasted approx 5-10 seconds and then stopped. She seemed fine immediately after, not dazed or anything. These episode continued for a couple of weeks (always triggered by food) and then stopped for around a year. At 2 1/2 they started again. This time the onset was either food, or a stressful situation when she was told not to do something, she would freeze and shake for a few seconds. I started googling facial grimacing, and I'm sure you all know where that took me. The syptoms she exhibits are as follows toe walking (getting less as of late), picky eater (nuggets, pizza, french toast, pancakes, ice cream, popsicles, mac and cheese, pasta) the thought of her even trying a new food will send her to tears, attitude (depends on what time of day it is), repetative movements (sometimes a clearing of the throat, sometimes index finger to thumb). T oanyone reading this who thinks I'm picking her apart, I do not mean to I'm just really scared for her sake, so I pay attention to everything she does. The positives; communication skills are that of a 4 year old (said an 11 word sentence that actually made sense shortly after her second birthday), the most vivid imagination I've ever seen from a child (she has befriend Milli from Team umizoomi, kids pirates, bubble guppies, and her new best friend is Lucy from Charlie Brown) we have to walk to her house every night, she know and identifies all her shapes, colors, letters and numbers (most of the time). knows how to rhyme, can be overly loving (no such thing) and thankful for things, recognizes when someone is upset and shows compassion. I'm sure there are more positives, but these are the main things.
So is it normal when she starts thanking me for a playroom I made for her months ago, out of the blue? Is it normal when ever she gets a new nail polish color, I hear ("It's my favorite") like every other color. Is it normal that she can not follow direction when she tries to drive her power wheels (hasn't got the steering down yet), or can't figure out how to pedal her tricycle yet? Is it normal that cookie monsters eyes, along with other characters petrify her?
I'm really lost, and I just need someone to explain what the real signs to watch out for our. When I spoke to the pediatrician about this a couple months ago, they dismissed it without even seeing her. My wife, parents, friends, all think she is fine, but how do they know? So does any of this make sense to anyone. For those who took the time to read this long winded tale, I thank you for your time, and appreciate any insight anyone has.



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02 Apr 2012, 5:17 pm

Hi, JsDad - any parent with questions and an open mind belongs! Welcome!

First of all - don't panic. I don't think anyone can say for certain whether autism is an issue one way or the other on an internet forum - but I think most of us whose kids are diagnosed have discovered it isn't quite what we thought it was at first.

Second, I, along with many other posters here, am a big believer in parent's intuition. Diagnosis is happening earlier and earlier these days - in most places (and in all of the US) your local public school district will probably offer an assessment free of charge; I'd also mention your concerns at her next pediatric visit. If you want to pursue diagnosis further, typically the test for an autism spectrum disorder is done by a developmental/behavioral pediatrician, a pediatric neurologist, or a developmental psychologist (an MCHAT or an ADOS.) My personal recommendation: find out what your insurance covers and start there.

Most of the things you list seem like sensory issues to me, which are just now being recognized as one symptom of an autism spectrum disorder, but can be something your child can get intervention for all by itself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_pr ... g_disorder

Today, PBS Kids put out this excellent overview of autism spectrum disorders for Autism Awareness Month http://www.pbs.org/parents/inclusivecom ... utism.html (Or you can try here - even if you haven't received a diagnosis, it's a good place to start: http://www.autismspeaks.org/family-serv ... 00-day-kit) Both places have an overview of the diagnostic criterion in somewhat plainer language than the DSM-IV. In general, autism spectrum disorders relate to difficulties in social interaction, problems with verbal and nonverbal communication and repetitive behaviors - and, in the new DSM Hyper-or hypo-reactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of environment.

Keep in mind - sometimes parents are aware long before the symptoms are disruptive enough to warrant a diagnosis and referral for services. This isn't something to worry about, it means your child's needs are being met for the time being especially if your child is able to communicate via speech. It's also important to remember that sometimes little "glitches" are a part of normal childhood development - so sometimes doctors take a "wait and see" approach.

If this happens, no worries, but keep an eye out for changes - if something doesn't seem "right" you can ask for more support. There are a bunch of stickied threads at the top of this forum with a lot of resources that may help you.



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02 Apr 2012, 5:35 pm

JsDad183 wrote:
So is it normal when she starts thanking me for a playroom I made for her months ago, out of the blue? Is it normal when ever she gets a new nail polish color, I hear ("It's my favorite") like every other color. Is it normal that she can not follow direction when she tries to drive her power wheels (hasn't got the steering down yet), or can't figure out how to pedal her tricycle yet? Is it normal that cookie monsters eyes, along with other characters petrify her?
I'm really lost, and I just need someone to explain what the real signs to watch out for our. When I spoke to the pediatrician about this a couple months ago, they dismissed it without even seeing her. My wife, parents, friends, all think she is fine, but how do they know? So does any of this make sense to anyone. For those who took the time to read this long winded tale, I thank you for your time, and appreciate any insight anyone has.


Your post contains some things that are worth watching -- picky eating and repetitive motions -- but I didn't see anything that would make me urge you to rush out for an evaluation.
Specifically:
Nail polish every one is her favorite - normal
Tricycle and steering - normal at not quite three, more concerning at four
Scared of cookie monster - depends on severity of her anxiety, and how hard it is to calm her down.
Can she carry on a conversation with you?
Are you seeing extreme meltdowns lasting 30 minutes or more?
Are you seeing her be very rigid about routines? Does she seem to imprint on the way something was done the first time and try hard to have it be the same every time after?
Will she start preschool this fall? I would see how she develops socially this year, and whether she moves on from scribbling to drawing pictures.



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02 Apr 2012, 5:57 pm

Picky eating seems more common among young children than not. That is why there are "kid" foods like macaroni and cheese, and chicken nuggets.



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02 Apr 2012, 6:16 pm

JsDad183 wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here, and not even sure if I belong. My head is kind of a mess, so please pardon anything I say wrong. I know Autism is a touchy subject, especially with parents. I am not sure if I belong here, this is why I need some help from you as a commnity. This will probably be to long winded for most, for that I'm sorry.
Here goes: My daughter is quickly approaching 3 years old and some of the things she does has me worried. Unfortunately the information on the internet has not made me feel any more secure. The first sign of a problem occured around the 1 1/2 year area. She was eating something (sorry don't remember what it was) and all of a sudden my wife and I noticed her tense her jaw and start to quiver. The episode lasted approx 5-10 seconds and then stopped. She seemed fine immediately after, not dazed or anything. These episode continued for a couple of weeks (always triggered by food) and then stopped for around a year. At 2 1/2 they started again. This time the onset was either food, or a stressful situation when she was told not to do something, she would freeze and shake for a few seconds. I started googling facial grimacing, and I'm sure you all know where that took me. The syptoms she exhibits are as follows toe walking (getting less as of late), picky eater (nuggets, pizza, french toast, pancakes, ice cream, popsicles, mac and cheese, pasta) the thought of her even trying a new food will send her to tears, attitude (depends on what time of day it is), repetative movements (sometimes a clearing of the throat, sometimes index finger to thumb). T oanyone reading this who thinks I'm picking her apart, I do not mean to I'm just really scared for her sake, so I pay attention to everything she does. The positives; communication skills are that of a 4 year old (said an 11 word sentence that actually made sense shortly after her second birthday), the most vivid imagination I've ever seen from a child (she has befriend Milli from Team umizoomi, kids pirates, bubble guppies, and her new best friend is Lucy from Charlie Brown) we have to walk to her house every night, she know and identifies all her shapes, colors, letters and numbers (most of the time). knows how to rhyme, can be overly loving (no such thing) and thankful for things, recognizes when someone is upset and shows compassion. I'm sure there are more positives, but these are the main things.
So is it normal when she starts thanking me for a playroom I made for her months ago, out of the blue? Is it normal when ever she gets a new nail polish color, I hear ("It's my favorite") like every other color. Is it normal that she can not follow direction when she tries to drive her power wheels (hasn't got the steering down yet), or can't figure out how to pedal her tricycle yet? Is it normal that cookie monsters eyes, along with other characters petrify her?
I'm really lost, and I just need someone to explain what the real signs to watch out for our. When I spoke to the pediatrician about this a couple months ago, they dismissed it without even seeing her. My wife, parents, friends, all think she is fine, but how do they know? So does any of this make sense to anyone. For those who took the time to read this long winded tale, I thank you for your time, and appreciate any insight anyone has.


http://www.freevideosforautistickids.co ... ptoms.html
http://www.freevideosforautistickids.co ... tions.html
http://www.freevideosforautistickids.co ... roups.html
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publicat ... shtml#pub4 National Institute of Mental Health government pamphlet providing general information about autism.
http://autismsciencefoundation.org/autism-warning-signs early warning signs 0-5 years.
http://www.learningabledkids.com/ information and links for parents with kids with learning disabilities.
http://www.autismspeaks.org/family-serv ... ce-library Autism Speaks resource library.
http://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/video-glossary FREE ASD Video Glossary to help parents and teachers identify red flags and features
http://www.freevideosforautistickids.co ... uides.html
http://www.freevideosforautistickids.co ... alogs.html

Above is a list of links from my free website, www.freevideosforautistickids.com, that you might find helpful. (I have included the link to special needs catalogs because these sites generally sell books about autism).

I personally have a history of epilepsy, and there is a high rate of comorbidity between autism and epilespy (also known as seizure disorder). Comorbidity means that the child has more than one condition. Kids with autism have about a 40% chance of seizures at some point in life. From what you said, I would want to go to a pediatric neurologist and rule out epilepsy and try to figure out what is going on. It is better to err on the side of caution. Your child can have some autistic traits or she can actually be on the autism spectrum. She cold also be having other neurological or psychiatric issues.

Around here (Austin, TX) it can take months to get into see a pediatric neurologist due to too few people practicing this specialty. However, I think that a pediatric neurologist would be the best person for an initial diagnosis in this situation. (My own kids see a child psychiatrist for medical management; however, a pediatric neurologist made the initial diagnosis for my son with high functioning classic autism).

Now, the fact that she is verbal is a very good sign. Even if she does have epilepsy, AS, or something else, it is not the end of the world. Most people with these issues can attend school, work, have families, etc. Some young kids with seizures grown out of it, and a lot of people's Asperger's issues soften with age. Also, this is largely a parents' support group; therefore, you will hear from a lot of people who are stressed out. They don't tend to post if everything is going well, and, in my personal experience, parents of more challenging kids tend to be much more active in autism support groups than parents of high-functioning Aspies.

I have a history of epilepsy (cured by surgery), selective mutism, AS, and Crohn's Disease. However, I am a highly educated successful business woman and a good mom. I have a friend with epilepy who is super smart and educated, and her epilepsy is successfully controlled by meds. (Meds work in most cases of epilepsy, and other options are sometimes available if they don't work).


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02 Apr 2012, 6:17 pm

I definitely believe in Dad's intuition. Of course you can't know for sure (and nor can anyone else) if your daughter is on the Autism Spectrum unless she is tested by a professional. I think it is great that you are so attuned to her development, and I applaud you for reaching out here. If she does get diagnosed, she will have a great support system in you, since you are clearly a devoted father :D

A lot of the things you describe of your daughter are echoed in my own daughter.... although my DD is 7 years old, diagnosed PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified), ADHD and MMR (Mild Mental Retardation). Your 3 year old daughter says things like every nail polish color is her favorite, and so that fits for my DD to be saying that now, since she is at about that level developmentally. My DD would't have been able to express herself in that way at 3 years old. She didn't have the vocabulary for it at that age, and was not very interactive in her communication.

I'd say keep an eye on her. If you want to get her tested, speak to her doctor about it. The earlier it is caught, the better off she will be. And if she doesn't test for an ASD, then you can sleep easier.

Many blessings to you.



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02 Apr 2012, 6:34 pm

From one dad to another:

1. Don't freak out.
2. Practice relaxation techniques.
3. Trust your intuition.
4. Keep a journal.
5. Continually educate yourself.
6. Consider medical doctors as consultants...ask them a lot of questions then make your own decisions. You know your child better than any doctor.
7. If you don't agree with a doctor, get a second opinion.
8. If you don't agree with the second opinion, get a third. Etc.
9. Spend as much quality time with your child(ren) as possible.
10. Be in it for the long-haul...take the long term approach.

I could go on, but these are some of the things I wish someone had told me. Best of luck :)



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02 Apr 2012, 7:16 pm

DenvrDave wrote:
From one dad to another:

1. Don't freak out.
2. Practice relaxation techniques.
3. Trust your intuition.
4. Keep a journal.
5. Continually educate yourself.
6. Consider medical doctors as consultants...ask them a lot of questions then make your own decisions. You know your child better than any doctor.
7. If you don't agree with a doctor, get a second opinion.
8. If you don't agree with the second opinion, get a third. Etc.
9. Spend as much quality time with your child(ren) as possible.
10. Be in it for the long-haul...take the long term approach.

I could go on, but these are some of the things I wish someone had told me. Best of luck :)


Freakin' brilliant.

I always appreciate when you are around, DenvrDave - I've learned a lot from you! Thanks!



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02 Apr 2012, 9:22 pm

momsparky wrote:
DenvrDave wrote:
From one dad to another:

1. Don't freak out.
2. Practice relaxation techniques.
3. Trust your intuition.
4. Keep a journal.
5. Continually educate yourself.
6. Consider medical doctors as consultants...ask them a lot of questions then make your own decisions. You know your child better than any doctor.
7. If you don't agree with a doctor, get a second opinion.
8. If you don't agree with the second opinion, get a third. Etc.
9. Spend as much quality time with your child(ren) as possible.
10. Be in it for the long-haul...take the long term approach.

I could go on, but these are some of the things I wish someone had told me. Best of luck :)


Freakin' brilliant.

I always appreciate when you are around, DenvrDave - I've learned a lot from you! Thanks!


I also want to say that this is a great list! Number one may be hard at first and for you it may be even more difficult if other family members aren't seeing the same things you are seeing but hang in there. I would seriously consider a different p doc if your's brushed off your concerns so quickly. I am very thankful that our p doc leaned the exact opposite direction. When I brought my concerns to her she immediately found a colleague with experience with ASDs to evaluate our DS.

You are in the right place!



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02 Apr 2012, 10:33 pm

momsparky wrote:
Freakin' brilliant.

I always appreciate when you are around, DenvrDave - I've learned a lot from you! Thanks!


Thanks very much momsparky. Keep that up and I may stick around awhile :wink:



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03 Apr 2012, 3:35 am

I just wanted to point out that not all autistic children have meltdowns that last 20 minutes or more...some of them are very quite, my now 19 year old didnt start having long screaming meltdowns until she was about 16. My kids have meltdowns but most of them are short as my husband and I know what works with my son and my daughter. I had far worse problems with my first three....so maybe its because I know how to talk to or to handle them but its not a really a diagnostic criteria.



JsDad183
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03 Apr 2012, 5:35 pm

I'd like to start by saying thank you to everyone here who responded, and even those who took the time to read my concerns without responding. I feel a bit more at peace, yet a bit more confused at the same time. Being the fact that I'm unsure if she has a form of autism or sensory processing disorder, or is she just being an almost 3 year old with a few extras.

zette wrote:
JsDad183 wrote:
So is it normal when she starts thanking me for a playroom I made for her months ago, out of the blue? Is it normal when ever she gets a new nail polish color, I hear ("It's my favorite") like every other color. Is it normal that she can not follow direction when she tries to drive her power wheels (hasn't got the steering down yet), or can't figure out how to pedal her tricycle yet? Is it normal that cookie monsters eyes, along with other characters petrify her?
I'm really lost, and I just need someone to explain what the real signs to watch out for our. When I spoke to the pediatrician about this a couple months ago, they dismissed it without even seeing her. My wife, parents, friends, all think she is fine, but how do they know? So does any of this make sense to anyone. For those who took the time to read this long winded tale, I thank you for your time, and appreciate any insight anyone has.


Your post contains some things that are worth watching -- picky eating and repetitive motions -- but I didn't see anything that would make me urge you to rush out for an evaluation.
Specifically:
Nail polish every one is her favorite - normal
Tricycle and steering - normal at not quite three, more concerning at four
Scared of cookie monster - depends on severity of her anxiety, and how hard it is to calm her down.
Can she carry on a conversation with you?
Are you seeing extreme meltdowns lasting 30 minutes or more?
Are you seeing her be very rigid about routines? Does she seem to imprint on the way something was done the first time and try hard to have it be the same every time after?
Will she start preschool this fall? I would see how she develops socially this year, and whether she moves on from scribbling to drawing pictures.


Zette, I appreciate your response, so let me respond back on your questions. As far as her being scared of things, it always seems related to "eyes", if they don't look just right, something sets her off. Once she is removed from that, she is fine, she does not throw any sort of a tempertantrum when this happens. She says "Daddy, I don't like his eyes". Positive that she can tell me what is bothering her, but is it normal that it does? Her conversation skills are excellent, we often have to dumb down the level, because she is using words she doesn't always understand. She seems to learn in phrases rather than word by word, amazing she inserts those learned phrases in the appropriate places most of the time. She does not have "meltdowns". She is whiney, and there is the occasional temper tantrum, but nothing lasting more than 5-10 minutes. I have seen her rigd on items, especially when she is trying to master something. She insists on doing puzzles, way past her age range 9-20 pieces, but gets very upset when the pieces don't fit. She will do it multiple times until she has it memorized. She will be going to preschool camp in june, and is scheduled to start preschool in the fall.

There are things about her that lean me away from "classic" autism, or ASD, but I know every kid is different so I'm unsure. I hear a lot about autistic kids not being able to pretend an item is something different than it's intended purpose, this is not her. She will pic up a microphone stand and ride it like a horse, telling it to "giddy up". She puts on song and dance shows for us, bringing us popcorn and ice cream. She has more imaginary friends than I can keep up with. These are the things that have me confused about what's going on with her, clarification on these topics would be great. Her social skills are outstanding. I find that most of the time, she is the one to initiate a conversation with another child, however usually the older ones. I don't know if this is normal behavior or a kid who is going to struggle. I'm sorry if all this sound confusing to everyone, I'm just trying to get her on the right path. Some say treatment is better earlier than later, other say let her be a kid and see what happens. :scratch:



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03 Apr 2012, 6:41 pm

I think the early treatment is critical when there is a language delay - getting ahead on speech can be difficult if you wait until they are school-age to do so. It certainly doesn't hurt in other situations, either - but I think (and I'm no doctor, this is just my opinion) for the other things, the timing is not as critical.

Wait and see can be a legitimate way to go if none of the symptoms you're observing seem to be causing undue distress either to her or to your family. Many kids (as described by posters here) on the "high-functioning" side of the spectrum either escaped detection entirely until they were older, or were re-evaluated several times as they developed - we'd looked for help for my son (not knowing about autism at all) since he was 3, but he wasn't diagnosed until 10, as typically developing kids have a jump in language development around 8 or 9 years old. He probably would have benefited from treatment as early as kindergarten, but I don't think intervention in preschool would have helped much.

Keep in mind that every child on the spectrum is different. We didn't think my son had Asperger's because he'd go for months without a meltdown (I assumed it meant a certain level of stress all the time) and despite certain OCD-type traits, he's never been a lining-things-up kind of guy, and has always preferred imaginative play (albeit somewhat rigid imaginative play.)

Either way, bring up your concerns to your pediatrician at her next visit, they are supposed to be trained to look for signs of "classic" autism and will refer you if it is, indeed, something that needs immediate attention.



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03 Apr 2012, 6:43 pm

My son also had great imaginative play, he could turn a straw into a telephone, toothbrush, hammer, etc..he also had imaginary freinds. He also learned phrases from TV shows and used them APPROPRIATELY in conversation.

He has Aspergers. When he was 3 it wasnt apparent. But that is typical for Aspergers, usualy they dont get diagnosed until elem school!

hang in there :) Sounds like your little girl is a delight!


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M-, who would be 6 1/2, my forever angel baby
E- 1 year old!! !


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03 Apr 2012, 7:05 pm

momsparky wrote:
I think the early treatment is critical when there is a language delay - getting ahead on speech can be difficult if you wait until they are school-age to do so. It certainly doesn't hurt in other situations, either - but I think (and I'm no doctor, this is just my opinion) for the other things, the timing is not as critical.

Wait and see can be a legitimate way to go if none of the symptoms you're observing seem to be causing undue distress either to her or to your family. Many kids (as described by posters here) on the "high-functioning" side of the spectrum either escaped detection entirely until they were older, or were re-evaluated several times as they developed - we'd looked for help for my son (not knowing about autism at all) since he was 3, but he wasn't diagnosed until 10, as typically developing kids have a jump in language development around 8 or 9 years old. He probably would have benefited from treatment as early as kindergarten, but I don't think intervention in preschool would have helped much.

Keep in mind that every child on the spectrum is different. We didn't think my son had Asperger's because he'd go for months without a meltdown (I assumed it meant a certain level of stress all the time) and despite certain OCD-type traits, he's never been a lining-things-up kind of guy, and has always preferred imaginative play (albeit somewhat rigid imaginative play.)

Either way, bring up your concerns to your pediatrician at her next visit, they are supposed to be trained to look for signs of "classic" autism and will refer you if it is, indeed, something that needs immediate attention.


I agree that early intervention is most critical in cases of speech delay. I would also add that it is critical in the case of learning disabilities.

It doesn't sound like classic autism to me, either. However, that doesn't mean that it couldn't be Asperger's or something else.

I also agree that every child on the spectrum is different; no child on the spectrum shows every single symptom. Some kids never have real meltdowns--my younger son with AS/OCD can be very whiney, throw tantrums, and can have brief mini-meltdowns, but nothing like my older son with high functioning classic autism when he's not on meds and something really gets him going. A friend of mine with twins with high functioning classic autism told me that her 11-year-old girls have had other anxiety-related behavior issues but never meltdowns. Another friend has a child with high functioning classic autism who used to have meltdowns but no longer has them.

My older son with high functioning classic autism actually has a bunch of imaginary friends, but his brother has none. There are several other kids on the spectrum with moms in my local Autism Society chapter who have imaginary friends, too.

Personally, I've found it very helpful to read a lot, compare notes with other parents, and listen to the opinions of professionals. There are just so many confusing stereotypes about kids with autism


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eatyerbroccoli
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03 Apr 2012, 7:07 pm

You've got a lot of time. Every kid is unique and what matters most is that they have attentive and loving parents. Sounds to me like your kid does. :D

Really, IMO, the diagnosis is only important if there arise significant shortcomings at school, and that's like I say, you have a lot of time. Otherwise, engage with your child where she is at and parent in an empowering and validating way, just like with any kid.

Best of luck and enjoy the ride!