Aspartners: Questions

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I understand what you're saying. I will use the term "animal spirit." For me, it isn't just having Aspergers. My animal spirit is different than a lot of people, both NT and AS. I have had clashes with various members on here because of this. A while back, InThisTogether showed me a paper about those with a high need for consistency vs. a low need for consistency. Part of my spirit is a high need for consistency. If something is inconsistent to me, it is a major issue. I develop major anxiety over this.

For example, people seem to talk about how much freedom they have. They sing it in their songs and how we're number one. If there are 1000s of laws on the books and so many social standards one has to follow how is one truthfully free? Compared to North Korea we're way less unfree. If we use Dante's Inferno as a point of comparision North Korea is in the 9th circle of hell and we could be in the 2nd or 3rd circle of hell. To state that we're free when there 1000s of laws, which need lawyers to understand a lot of them, and tons of social standards is a falsehood and is a lie. How are we truthfully free when there is so much to conform to both socially and legally?

It seems like how thing things truthfully work in America is different from what actually is promoted. Why state we're free when the mechanics contradict this? Why state be yourself when the social reality contradicts this?

Even Winston Wu states some of the same things I am saying.
http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page30.htm
http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page31a.htm

If we have inalienable rights that supposedly come from the laws of nature first, what are these laws and second, typhoid mary defended herself on the principles of liberty. The state of New York rejected this and protected other people's lives from Typhoid. To me, this is a red flag that the theories do not match the fact of reality. To accept these rights as inalienable leads to inconsistencies.

Yet, people seem to accept the inconsistencies. No one either wants to revise the theories to consist with the facts or change the whole social structure to consist with the theory. Either one must revise the theory to consist with the facts or one must alter the nature of things to fit the theory. This is what my animal spirit perceives. Ruveyn explained an excellent concept to me when it came to the scientific method. Theories have to serve the facts. It would be impractical to have the facts serve the theories and change the laws of nature. When I examine what he says, he is correct.



To claim we have inalienable rights that come from the laws of nature when the facts do not bare this out is sophistry and delusion. I am being asked to believe and conform to a whole bunch of sophistries and delusions about the nature of social reality.




Well I do try to be polite.

To me, there are things though that can't be left unsaid. This comes from my Jewish background. Would if someone watched Hitler and stood up to him before he came to power? If you let a hate site likes this stay unchallenged it festers and grows. Yes, they do have the freedom to have this site but even this has limits. What if it increases in membership exponentially? What if one of these types of women because one of your son's teachers in the future? How far are these women willing to go? Hatred transforms a person. It changes who they are. It can twist a person's mind and soul into doing unspeakable things like the holocaust. It changed Germany into Nazi Germany.

This is why I felt the need to challenge them. I had to show we were human beings like them. They're on a path in which they are objectifying a person. They are on a path in which they do not see the humanity in a group of people especially qplan.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/pfx/fo ... msg=9425.1

cubedemon6073, I havent read this entire thread and I didn't read any of the thread you initially posted about because I cannot spare any emotional energy on crap like that. I just did want to say something. I personally recognize that your questions always seem to be in the spirit of trying to truly understand other peoples' perspectives. I have been on this forum for a few years now and have read a lot of your posts. I may not have engaged in many of the conversations but I have often found your line of questioning enlightening. Your desire to learn about how other people think is an admirable quality that is not possessed by many people I have ever met on the web or IRL (AS OR NT). The individuals on that other forum obviously do not know you and were not able to appreciate the thought provoking quality of your posts.

Wow. I've been reading this thread and finally followed the last link Cube left and that site is even worse than I was imagining. What a cesspool!

It really is quite surprisingly nasty.
It's hard for me to imagine that the participants will not be embarrassed and ashamed when they get some perspective.

Cubedemon,

I agree with you about inconsistencies. They bug the heck out of me, too. I don't like them in TV shows, much less in real life. But they are going to be there, nonetheless. People are not logic machines, even aspies. I have learned to deal with them, even though they still bother me. They have bothered me less over time but sometimes I just have to tell myself to deal with it b/c it is not under my control.

I agree with you that the type of hate on that site and others directed at other groups is a horrible thing. How dangerous they end up being is not so easy to predict. However I agree with InThisTogether that logic and reason are not going to be effective and that they are predisposed to disagree with you. The post that you provided to is awful, and you notice that even the "good aspie" just made him more enraged. You aren't going to convince the KKK, or Aryan Nation, or any of their ilk, either, especially in "their house."

I agree with you that those people need to be challenged, but I think it is more effective outside of "their house." That is why when haters come to WP, I make it a point to counter what I perceive to be generalized prejudice. (Like on that nasty thread here)

I know there are those who disagree with me on that point, because they are afraid if they don't have a "safe" place here, it will lead those people to go to the dens of hate like ASPartners. I disagree because to me, if we don't counter the prejudice and just let them say whatever they want on that thread, then we are letting them establish a little colony of hate here, that will just fester and get worse over time.

This place also bash NTs so I ask myself how is their place any different? We are our own place to bash them, they have their own place to bash our condition.

I have also come across a racist forum called the Chimpout when someone found it while looking up another user online. They don't even allow black people there and it's a place where they bash them. I have always found the place boring despite the drama because racism has always bored me. I even thought the site was a joke when I saw it and realized it was for real and was shocked it could exist but hey freedom of speech. Everyone is allowed to have a place to rant or bash or express their thoughts. Just don't go there if you don't like it.

They aren't trying to round us all up and send us off to camps or want us all killed off like Hitler wanted with Jews and wanting to wipe out disabled people.

Darn, messed up the quotes.

I guess you're right. Based upon what Kurt Gödel says we can never truthfully have a system that is complete and consistent. He was able to prove this through his high level of mathematics. It seems so counter-intuitive yet it makes sense.

Do you have a coping mechanism to effectively deal with that?



I guess you're right. I wonder if there is a way to submit aspartners to hatewatch?

If they truthfully are like the KKK or the Aryan Nation then no reasoning will change them.



Yes, and you and momsparky both did that in the Raised by an Aspergers parent thread. If you notice her postings League_Girl, she has had some crappy exes that were similar to these women's husbands. She doesn't generalize it to all men, aspies or NTs.



You're right and we don't want a little colony of hate here. For me, it's just difficult to let things like this go.

When I saw blank posts, I just thought it was a glitch or something but I figured out they were deleted posts made by aspies they deleted when they decided to wipe them all out of there and their posts. I noticed Lwaxy's posts are gone and she was an aspie. This must e recent because I remember an aspie member there posting there about her aspie husband and she was given nice friendly support but now that place seems more hostile than ever.

They are in no position to round us up and I thank goodness they're not but their sentiments are in that direction. Not all of them but some of them. More than likely they will never be in a position to do so but still I do have that fear. I do have a Jewish background and I was taught about the horrors of the camps at an early age. Maybe my fears are unfounded but still they bother me and gnaw at me like an itch.

I think certain moderate members left or were driven out and the extremists took over. Maybe it was a coup d'état. Who knows? I think they kicked Lwaxy to the curb.

You said they cleaned house so I assumed you meant they decided to stick with their rule and kicked out all the aspies who were there. The other forum I go to did the same when they decided it was an adult only forum so they kicked out all the members who were all under 18.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant.

Did you see a post about it or something?

I basically just tell myself that my expectations are unrealistic, and that I need to deal with it. After many repetitions of this, it just got better. It is still aggravating to me, but less so. I just fight it with reason and say I am not being realistic.





Yes. One can be bothered by something and not generalize it with malice , or become prejudiced. There is a line there and the people on that site have passed it.

League_Girl, I don't venture much outside the parent part of the board, So I take your word for it that there is NT bashing. I don't know how pervasive it is, but it should not be. Many NTs like the ones on the parent board are sympathetic and a help. I am grateful for the help of NTs here b/c they explain things from a perspective I don't always get.

I used reasoning.

a. These are the aspies that I know of that were on there. (Lwaxy, Wander, 2 others I forgot there n/n)

b. Some of Lwaxy's stuff has been deleted.

c. I don't see the others posting anymore.

d. The definition of strict in this context means that it is absolute and there are no exceptions

Based upon these facts they used to allow some aspies to post but in all probabibility they're enforcing the "aspie no post rule" now in a strict way.