Seeing things? Hearing voices? Anxiety /drugs for toddler

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My 3-year-old daughter has been diagnosed as being on the spectrum. She's a bright young girl, generally fairly happy and aside from speech/language issues is doing well with regards to learning numbers/letters. About a month ago she started attending special ed classes for socialization and therapy. She appears to be enjoying it.

We did take her to see the neurologist at our doctor's request as I've noticed some of her behavior (like melt-downs) were getting worse and due to the lack of ability to speak, we have to read a lot of cues. Also, there is epilepsy in the family (myself) and I had caught her a couple of times in her room just staring. Anyway, the neurologist didn't think she was having seizures. That's good. But it's hard to judge and you can't give this kid an EEG because she wouldn't allow you to put the electrodes on her noggin. She'd be a heap in the corner frightened. I can't blame her for that, so wouldn't put her through it. The neuro did suggest Zoloft for her anxiety and I asked if he received kick-backs. Sorry, just seems odd to suggest a toddler should be put on anti-depressants.

Anyway, today when hubby took her to school, she wasn't her usual self. She hid behind him and it took him 10 minutes before he could leave. Normally, he can make a quick exit and she is fine. When she woke up from her nap this evening, she freaked out. I'm not sure if she was in the mode of night terror, where she couldn't wake up from a dream, despite appearing awake, but she appeared totally freaked and we couldn't calm her. Dad rattled a chip bag and she snapped out of it. Even her father (hubby) says "that's not normal". She looked terrified. He then said he asked the teacher this morning if anything happened at school yesterday (like a fall etc). She said nothing happened, except that she was on her on agenda that day. This evening, I noticed after she had calmed down she was in her room and it was like she was talking to someone and then trying to get away from them. I'm not sure. Maybe I'm reading too much into an active imagination, but part of the diagnosis for autism is so you know the direction you go for helping a child learn to cope so they can be as independent as possible. So, I'm wondering if something else is going on.

I know there are often other issues associated with autism and am actually familiar with night terrors and sleep paralysis as a teen and years of horrible nightmares as a kid that would still be there when I woke and would be waiting for me when I went back to sleep. So, I guess maybe she's just experiencing some night terror, or can someone else suggest something different?

She sees CCHD (KU Med) in Kansas City in April. She's already had an assessment, so not sure what they will be doing there, but I just want to help my beautiful smart little girl learn to cope better. She's been a sensitive kid since birth.

On another note, do you think it's a good thing we're not into drugging her? I mean, I've been on meds for years and they're not dissimilar from some of the psych meds. The side-effects can be hard to live with and that's from someone who wasn't being treated for psychiatric disorder, but rather a seizure disorder. We had concerns about "once she starts, she's stuck with them", rather than learning other ways to cope. She's not always anxious, but it's often eggshells.

I get the impression that her behavior is getting worse and not better and I don't simply put that down to being 3. It's more than that. I was told as a new mother by my midwife to go with my instincts. I did. I always will. Something's not right and I'm pretty sure it's not just the autism. Maybe the anxiety is worse than we thought?

Well if there is no other way to get the anxiety under control, medication could benefit her....it sucks feeling afraid/anxious all the time. I know I've had anxiety since I was a kid and as a child I was not medicated for it so spent a lot of time afraid/anxious/nervous thinking somehow that's normal and how I was supposed to feel....I did not think it was weird that during any event where people where gathered I started feeling like I was sinking in a swimming pool due to the rising anxiety and having it effect my breathing(one trigger that can set off anxiety).....But I am not so sure zoloft would be the best thing to start with, from what I understand it has a somewhat higher risk of increasing anxiety than other anti-depressants, its meant to treat depression(so why they'd prescribe a depression medication before a specifically anxiety medication I don't know) and with the risk of seizures well SSRIs like zoloft are stimulating I'd think that could be bad for that kind of risk.

There are more anxiety specific drugs, some have a risk of dependency/abuse....but if the benefit outweighs that then the relief helps. Also medication can be taken as well as someone goes to therapy so one can do both treatments at once. I am confused though because you say she is non-verbal....but it seems like she's talking to someone and trying to get away from them?

Can you hang out at the school for a few days in a row and actually watch what is going on? Teachers at my son's school told me everything was great at the end of each day when I picked him up, but I later learned he was being put on 'the thinking chair' in what was virtually a walk-in closet (turned into a small kitchen) a number of times each day alone because of his 'behaviours'.

This was a Montessori school and I was on the board at the time. They didn't allow us in the classroom, but allowed us to 'observe' through a window with an organza covering. The days I 'observed' I managed to 'observe' the lead teacher paying far too much attention to figuring out who was behind the curtain, she looked over at me far too many times, and that made me quite uncomfortable. I took him out of school and have been home educating ever since. He still has trauma from that environment. Just an idea.

What does 'on her on agenda that day' mean?

I don't think I would feel comfortable putting a child of that age on medication. I still talk with 'imaginary friends' as does my son. If others saw me talking out loud to myself they would think I was experiencing delusions. I am not delusional. I know the people I practice talking with (I often practice social stuff aloud in this way in advance of seeing people), are not real and do not exist. Same with my son. Sometimes we work through our issues in this way. I would be worried about assigning any pathology to that at such a young age.

I read a couple of your posts in one of the other forums on this board and appreciate your insight. I know all about dependency. The epilepsy medication that works for me isn't typically prescribed for epilepsy, especially not these days. I'm on Clonazepam and yeah I get anxious if I don't take it. It's a drug that induces dependency and in my situation, it is totally acceptable because it affords me my 'independence'. Thanks for the other info about Zoloft. I know you're not a doctor, but when you're actively involved in your own healthcare, you tend to research things (again, speaking from experience). Since you've got experience growing up with anxiety, can I ask: have you had it since you can remember? Do you think medication might have helped to have a more 'typical' childhood, or do you think it might have just changed your personality. And you don't need to get personal here, but did you have a trauma that triggered the anxiety, or was it just something that seemed to be a part of your personality or that might have just seemed to come out of nowhere? I guess I'm trying to figure out what's best for my kid. I don't want to ruin her with drugs that seem to have a lot of off-label prescribing and it seems like it might be a catch 22 and there is no right answer and each could leave one wondering "what if I did or didn't get medication".

I talk to myself all the time. I try to remember not to do it in public, but it's such a habit sometimes it slips out. It never occurred to me that someone might think I was experiencing delusions. Lord, what a weirdo I must be.

Oh my - they put your child in a closet? Up until today, she was enjoying school. She cried one day because Dad forgot that day there was no school and he turned up with our daughter only to find out that "there's another one". (the second parent whom had forgotten there was no school that day). He felt like a terrible father as our kid wailed all the way home. Before the AS diagnosis, it was our intention to home school for the simple fact we don't even know if a lot of kids are getting educated anymore. I mean that with all due respect to teachers, but class sizes are often too big to be able to cater to 30 odd kids and if you're a kid that doesn't learn the same way as everyone else, - well back in my day you slipped through the cracks, got bored, got in trouble and went to prison.

I think "on her own agenda" meant she wasn't participating and wasn't really following. But not sure. I have tomorrow off work (I'm the working parent and Dad stays home with our kid - he's awesome with her) and may go in and ask. Dad's concerned. I'm not sure he can hang out at the school for a few days, as part of the reason she's there is so she can learn to be around other kids /adults. It would defeat the purpose. The medication thing at her age is definitely a brow lifter and a WTF moment...but it's hard to know who is wrong and right. I just know that the pharmaceutical industry does make a lot of money off these drugs.

We all talk to ourselves. I do it when I'm mad and can't actually say what I want. I'll think about it later and spit something out.

I talk to 'imaginary' people, though. I know when you're an adult you're not meant to say that, and you're meant to say you 'talk to yourself' but I'm not actually talking to myself. I'm talking to people who aren't there. The difference between that and a delusional pathology is that I know the people aren't really there. It's socially inappropriate to say I 'am talking to my imaginary friends' at the age of 46 but that's often what I'm doing, though I'm not 'imagining' friends I'm actually speaking to people who exist in my real life but are not there when I am talking to them.

As a child I had very clear imaginary friends I spoke to quite often. I would hide from them sometimes as well. I also had night terrors as a young child and sleep paralysis as a teen and young adult. I no longer have those issues in adulthood.

As long as you're aware that the people you're talking to aren't actually there, then I don't really see it's an issue. And it's something you and your son share, correct? If it helps, who am I to say otherwise. I didn't have imaginary friends, but I had the night terrors and sleep paralysis as I mentioned earlier. Quite frightening. I have no issue if my daughter develops an imaginary friend, as long as she becomes aware that they aren't really there. I think we all adopt different coping mechanisms in finding our path in life. No single method works for everyone. Breathing, might be the exception

I really wouldn't put a two-year-old on anxiety meds.
It is not ackshuly a bad thing for autistic children to have meltdowns.
It is not healthy to avoid meltdowns.
When she has meltdowns, put her in a safe place and let her have them.

Sometimes when I'm home and she has one (I'm the working parent), I may go to her and hug her tight as she has her melt down (she's often face down fetal on the floor, so I apply gentle pressure and hug her and rub her back). Sometimes it helps her. Sometimes I need to let her just do her thing. Hubby has started doing that as he does see that sometimes the back rubs and the light pressure in a hug on the floor is soothing to her. I had read that for some kids on the spectrum (and it may be for kids who are further on the spectrum than her) that applying a blanket and some light pressure can help - that's kind of why I do the back rub and hug. Because I'm still new to this, I'm trying to let her know non-verbally that I'm there, I care and it's going to be okay. She understands many words, but sometimes she has a brain freeze and that can send her into a melt down too as I think the confusion caused by the cognitive blip causes frustration as she has to think even harder. I can comprehend that as I've had various types of seizures when I was fully conscious, but in a state of confusion and it's terribly frustrating and scary. A trapped-in-the-body scenario. I know that sometimes there's nothing you can do but just to let them go.

I wasn't aware that trying to stop meltdowns was unhealthy. It might seem odd, but can you please tell me why? Is it about letting them be themselves, process it and get it out? Like I said, I'm new to some of this, but I know the difference between a tantrum and a meltdown in my daughter.

Just so you know, a lot of us don't really 'do' the idea that some of us are more high functioning or 'further up on the spectrum'.

http://autismwomensnetwork.org/function ... els-again/
http://ollibean.com/2013/09/26/problems ... ng-labels/
http://musingsofanaspie.com/2013/06/26/ ... ing-label/
http://www.snagglebox.com/article/autism-functioning

It's usually best to presume competence.

http://emmashopebook.com/2013/03/07/pre ... n-exactly/ (you might fall in love with Emma's Hope Book blog)

I totally agree regarding 'talking to imaginary friends'. I'm just saying try not to ascribe too much pathology to your daughter's behaviours at this time. I have tended to be hyperaware of my son's various issues and struggles, so I totally relate to where you are coming from with your concerns. We want to give our kids the best chance they have in life, and do whatever it takes to make sure they have those chances.

Having a doctor suggest a psych med for my toddler would have likely put me over the edge, to be honest. I would assume you are in the USA, though. We don't seem to medicalise every little behaviour like doctors in the USA do here in Australia. I have gotten relief through pharmaceuticals at various points in my life (for depression and anxiety related to my ASD). However, I think my child would have to be displaying severe mental health issues (like self harm or the desire to harm others) for me to even think of medication until he is well into his teen years.

My child has gone through periods of what I would call suicidal ideation (based in frustrations about his life not working the way he wants) but they were very brief and fleeting, and were not indicative of clinical depression (but rather frustration and difficulty coping). He's also experienced very intense anxiety at times and we have worked through them with strategies similar to CBT. That said, I am thankful for my daily 25mg paroxetine. My brain is done with growing and developing, though. I would be extremely worried about meds for a toddler.

I'll check out the links. Thanks for the heads-up. I was more referring to how they talk about being on the spectrum and there's the high and low, but in all reality, I don't think most of the experts know, because I asked some and they were vague. I think it's a gray area because the concept of it being a spectrum 'disorder' (I prefer wired differently - because it seems more accurate, since it incorporates the personality of that individual). I can relate for different reasons.

Yes, I'm in the USA. I'm not from here though and when a doctor suggested an anti-depressant for anxiety in a toddler the first thought that went through my head was "my daughter's not going to become a statistic on Prozac Nation". I'm not sure if you've seen it, but it's about American kids being put on heaps of psychiatric drugs. But I sincerely appreciated Sweetleaf's insight.

Prior to that, hubby and I had agreed that we wouldn't really look into it unless our daughter was old enough to determine whether she wished to try something like that. I kind of get the impression that once you start down that road, it might be difficult to change direction. For different wiring, I have the same end result, but it was like Sweetleaf mentioned: about the pros and cons. But I'm an adult, who made the conscious decision and I don't want to use a pill to try and 'regulate' a behavior if there may be other options. I don't want to regulate a personality either. I merely want to help. This forum is great for being able to talk to people, either on the spectrum or caring for those who are. I'll have a LOT of reading to do. It's insightful and I appreciate you all, already.

You sound like an awesome mother and I'm sure your daughter will have every opportunity available to be everything she can be in life.

I am familiar with Prozac Nation. I'm from the USA originally and have only been in Australia for just over 13 years, however the differences between how our autism experts talk and those overseas, etc., is very interesting to me. My son has seen two specialist Paediatricians in his life and neither ever recommended medication, both were against it wholly, and many folks here tend to get their autism information from folks like Tony Attwood who is gentler towards us than the medical model tends to be.

I agree with the idea of letting those meds be a choice later on in life. I can safely say that Prozac did save my life back when I was 21 (it had just come out and I was quite suicidally depressed and unable to function), and I am thankful for the paroxetine (Paxil) in low dose I use today. That said, I wholly agree with your sentiments around the meds.

I really liked this one. I'll admit that before we had a professional opinion, that I really knew little about the spectrum and through my discussions with the people that studied our daughter, it was still new and still expanding in terms of understanding. I was aware of Aspergers and that was about it. I had interacted with a few people who stated they had Aspergers and were bright, but socially awkward and preferring the method of communication in this kind of format. I think that alone kind of gave me a notion that when they talked about the spectrum, it was different for everyone. Hubby even has a theory that we're probably all on the spectrum in one way or another. He's probably correct.

I'm from NZ and NZ probably uses a similar model to Aussie. In the US, they're happy to give out opiates and all kinds of 'goodies'. In NZ, I think it was a lot more conservative, but that was a public health system. It's for-profit here. Many pills require more pills to help with the side-effects of the first one. I'm not anti meds, but yeah, age is definitely an issue...if you don't really need it (and that is often quite subjective), don't have it. But I've been on meds most of my life, so I'm kind of hesitant about the whole drug business and yet I still have a somewhat open mind. Thanks for your kind words. I should get to bed...it's after midnight.