Do parents respect bad kids more?

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Absolutely. 100%. Nietzsche is actually one of my favorite philosophers. Power and discipline are what families are about. I can safely say that many people wouldn't have kids, if being a parent didn't come with limitless power over them. Well, there's the procreation instinct and the desire to keep up with the Joneses, no doubt. But power is the delicious icing on the nutritious but plain-tasting cake. Especially considering that power trips (like arbitrarily limiting water intake) can be done in the guise of "caring" or "love".

Nope, I was talking specifically about cover-ups. No parents will want their child learning something that will undermine their power, let alone finance it. That's why family assertiveness training needs a euphemism of some sort, to make it look palatable to parents. This way, good kids will be able to garner as much respect from their parents as bad kids. As well as talk to family therapists to make them pay sincere attention, rather than simply be mocked.

Are you totally discounting what I wrote about the trade of power inside the family unit for power in the community and/or social standing? You would be wrong to do so. Power over adults is MUCH MUCH more enticing to an adult than power over children. Successful families try to use their children to increase their power OUTSIDE the family. That is why they are proud to have children who can undermine their power in small ways at home. Shall I start to pull up all the Facebook memes on this topic so that you will believe me?

You started this thread asking about respect. In my world parents are most likely to RESPECT children they see future potential in, or that reflect positively on them, regardless of if that child is currently behaving in "bad" or "good" behavior. If a social circle values meekness, they will respect the child who is meek. If a social circle values success, the parents will most respect the children who show the signs of potential for success (creativity that has commercial appeal, appropriate assertiveness, intelligence that is being applied effectively, leadership skills, etc). In my world view only "bad" parents uncomfortable with their own standing in the world (and possessing no knowledge of how to improve it) might seek to feel power by having control over a small child. Maybe that is why downtrodden communities are more likely to advocate authoritarian parenting. Smart parents know that if their children gain prestige, they will, too, so instead of trying to kick their kids down because the parents have a need for power, they try to use their children as allies in the attempt to gain power elsewhere. I gained social standing just by having kids. Seriously. Suddenly I was also my father's favorite. But that came with certain assumptions about how I would guide and treat my children in this world, and power plays was never on that list. I brag about my kids endlessly. I have an ASD son with strong leadership, creative and computer skills who people are drawn to. But I would have a whole lot less to brag about if I had been a parent who gave into any instinct I may have had to use power over him. NOT using power GAVE me MORE power.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 10 Oct 2019, 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks, but it's not necessary.

Attaining high power outside the family is often done by "setting high expectations for their kids". Which basically means demand perfect grades, and yell at and punish their kids for failure to attain them. That not so much attaining power in the community, but rather being able to tell the Joneses: "look what I'm raising". So I'm not buying the argument, sorry. Especially considering that bad kids aren't required to bring home good grades; they're respected in the family for who they are, not for what's in their report cards.

Consider a parallel in my cruise thread I posted. I met a woman on the ship, while staying in a cheap cabin, dressing Walmart-style, acting somewhat low-class, and making crass jokes. Basically, a 2019 version of Jack from "Titanic". Other than being polite to the crew and making her friends feel included when she introduced me to them, there wasn't a trace of "nice guy" in sight. Even so, she praised me constantly, telling me how much she had with me. I'm sure I wouldn't get the same positive reaction if I acted more stereotypically "good".

My career is pretty meh. It keeps a decent roof over my head, lets me eat steak and lobster occasionally, and puts me on a cruise once every few years, but it's nothing to write home about. And I'm single by choice. Any accomplishments I feel genuinely proud about are strictly social, far from brag-worthy for my family. Like my recent cruise: I navigated a strange city with no trouble, won the respect of a group who'd have eaten me alive 10 years ago, and had the most fun I had in years. But that's not something most families would brag to the community about.

I edited and wrote more while you were responding.

You aren't entirely wrong about the pressure the concept ends up putting on the kids, and I do understand why you would see it as another element of control. It's a whole field of thought I've pretty much only recently woken up to, as previously noted it is our own social group's faulty assumptions we rarely can see, so I don't have a lot of fully formed debate points on it.

I did not demand perfect grades from my kids. But I kind of might have sort of let them know that life as an adult is a whole lot easier and your choices a whole lot more plentiful if you do get great grades (I would follow up with stating that there are always alternate paths, but that part of the message isn't what they heard). Any pressure wasn't intentional; it was what I was hearing all around me, and I passed the messages I heard onto them. Nor did it reduce the pressure that my kids knew I was a top student and my husband class valedictorian. Still, I very much regret not realizing how much indirect pressure we were applying, because my daughter took it far far too much to heart and it created huge issues for her. My son was a wonderful little rebel ONLY when it came to grades (far more interested in actual learning, and who can argue with that?). But he actually came to regret his own attitude towards grades when he saw how it did, in fact, limit his college choices (he lucked out, though, and it only takes one decent acceptance, doesn't it?). Letting your kids know the realities of the world they are growing up in is not an exercise of parental power IMHO; it is a parental duty.

You may read that and believe it was my son's rebelliousness that earned our respect. No, but the fact that we had so much respect for him is the reason we didn't worry about his little grade rebellion. I always knew how smart and talented he was. If it took giving him a little leeway in any area for those talents to get nurtured, so be it. My daughter is most likely even smarter, actually, but she is ... well, complicated. I respect her a lot, but I don't know what she needs from me, so I rarely successfully give it to her. Not that I don't want to. My husband and son would say she had me wrapped around her little finger, but it wasn't a positive relationship. Just a confused one. I was trying so hard to figure out what she NEEDED. Totally off topic trying to sort that one out.

Alright. Concepts we've come up with in the last few pages:

1. Most parents do seem to respect it when children push back a little bit, as long as it is done in a smart and appropriate way.
2. Most parents so seem to respect children who they believe have potential for success, and that might lead to them ignoring select behaviors others might perceive as bad.

Either of the above could explain your perception that parents appear to respect bad kids more.

I LOVE this. I would brag about it, but I still get your point. It's a different brag. I wish you many more opportunities to feel the way you did then.

Thank you. Your family dynamics must be different than mine. All I told them was about the sights I saw and what the ship was like. I'd be embarrassed to share the really fun things that happened on the cruise. They were almost straight out of a reality show, only much milder. It basically involved flirting in a hot tub, among other situations. It all started with me singing karaoke the first night, and a woman inviting me to join her. (I cruised solo; she went with her friends, but was by herself that night.)

I feel more proud about how this cruise turned out, than about all my academics put together.

My family dynamics seem to be polar opposite to yours and I would definitely want my son to tell most of those details ... but only to a point. There is that line where it gets weird between a mother and her son so I wouldn't want him going past THAT point, obviously. I am extremely happy that his social life seems to go well overall. That he has friends. That he has a girlfriend. That his peers respect and like him. His social challenges have definitely been below the norm for an Aspie, and while he doesn't generally care about his social place (people want to be around him more than he wants to be around people), I know from this forum how much harder the world would be on him if he didn't have that gift.

I really am sorry your family could not appreciate your needs or figure out how to meet them and make you feel valued.

Aspie1, I do have a question. Have you talked to your parents about any of this in recent times?

Not harsh gracesksjp but maybe misinformed , suicidal ideation is not something that you can just get over. It's a bit like saying to someone with sensory issues to get over it.

I agree with these points. I did not much more than a light skim, but I think you made good points with these. It definitely applied in my family.
1. As much as my parents expected total obedience, it was good of us to push back every now and then. As a kid, I only knew how to scream "its not fair!" and throw tantrums that got me in trouble. As a teen, I learned that I could come to them with a well thought out counter-argument and they might be willing to negotiate. A good skill to learn as I was growing older.
My parents would often tell me a kid that if I hadnt acted out and just talked to them, they might have reconsidered. Theyd say things like "I was thinking of changing my mind, but then you threw a fit" and I would feel so angry at myself for ruining my own chances. So I started trying extra hard to be perfectly obedient and not raise a fuss about anything. But then I had to live with all their decisions. I realized as I grew up that they were just waiting for me to stand up for myself in a mature way. They didnt want me to throw tantrums but they also didnt want me to be a doormat.
This skill started to come in handy in high school as my parents started to encourage me to speak up for myself instead of them doing it for me. If I had an issue with a teacher or other adult, I needed to go in and assert myself in a professional manner. If I was still a doormat, then I wouldnt have gotten near as many opportunities or been able to argue grades and stand up for my decisions.

2. Totally true. Sometimes theres traits you see in a child that need to be corrected or redirected when they are young, but that show you they have potential for later down the road. For example, children with natural leadership qualities might be a little too pushy or bossy for their fellow sensitive peers when they are toddler aged. But if you can direct those qualities as they grow up, they might turn into great leaders. Children who are of gifted intelligence might be show offs, know it alls, or be seen as condescending of their peers and as a smartass by their teachers. When theyre little, its cute to show off that you have such a precocious child. As they get older you need to teach them to be more respectful and understand that not everyones brain works as fast as theirs.If these types of children are given the chance to be bored, they might get into a lot more trouble than your typical, average "good" teachers pet like kid. But despite not always being the favorite student, they are often praised by teachers because the teachers can see their potential.