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makuranososhi
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09 Aug 2008, 1:08 am

Tough position... wish there were answers. Things that I wondered while reading: what is he introducing her as? what role will she be allowed to have in child's life? how is the introduction going to be handled? Blunt talk works best, even if it can seem counterintuitive at a young age. In many children, explanations beg arguments, whereas with those on the spectrum they seem to have a beneficial effect - in my experience.


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Jenk
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09 Aug 2008, 11:46 am

KimJ wrote:
jenk, thanks for sharing. Yeah, my husband had a horrific experience with the "step"parents as well and an absent (deadbeat) father. But now he thinks Pop is old enough to handle it and he believes we'll be careful to protect our son from harm.

I guess I didn't really expect him to want to introduce them so quickly. I think of rebound relationships as kind of seedy and quick. I've known other parents to wait for months to introduce their kids to a new relationship.
Besides the shock of everything else, the sham reconciliations, the quick switch to this woman, I'm really rattled by the sudden lack of agreement with our son. We discussed everything together, and even last night he was agreeing to do that.


Blimey sounds pretty much like my father, who impregnated his second wife mere months after leaving my mother, though she was in the wrong for sauntering off with GI Joe. Movies had to be based on someones life...

It seems you are going to have to control the situation as far as possible and emphasise the need for your ex-husband to slow down the pace a little and ensure he understands the impact this will have, on even the most abled individual. He may seem fine, he probably is for the most part, but that does not exhaust his need for explanation, support and routine. I can't suggest anything, other than to make very clear the impact of bringing the seedy second into his sons life so soon. What is this teaching your son? Confront possiblities, suggest weekly updates, a meeting, coffee. Take note of the advice above, blunt does work best, would certainly have saved abundant confusion for me.

Best of luck to you both, if you want to ask of any specific consiquences or suggestions, I will answer to the best of my knowledge, (which distorted by time, may not be that beneficial.)



Last edited by Jenk on 09 Aug 2008, 11:57 am, edited 6 times in total.

KimJ
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09 Aug 2008, 11:53 am

Since he decided to do this without my consent or prior knowledge, I'm not sure what was said. My son isn't a reliable reporter yet, and he may not want to discuss it. Or he may want to talk about the beautiful woman who stayed at Dad's all weekend.
Since Ex is reneging on so much, I'm really clueless on what he is planning or thinking about this. He had previously told me that he didn't like her anymore, she was crazy, he didn't want to jump into another relationship right away because it would cause problems, etc.

One complication of this is that Dad has Pop on his weekends which means he's probably wanting to see his new girlfriend and thinks that's the best time. I suggested he get a sitter instead but he didn't respond to that. I think any activity with the 3 of them makes it a family event and I'm really upset that he thinks that's okay. I haven't even been properly introduced to the "crazy" and yet she's already in my son's life.
I can't imagine doing that.
The hard part is that I'm still in limbo with the whole procedure. I still want to reconcile and I can't accept the break up. So, I'm having a hard time separating the different losses. I go from wanting to be friendly to Ex, to being frightened by his change in demeanor. The prior breakups were a lot "nicer" than this one. I mean, if he's happy leaving, then why be so angry about it?



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09 Aug 2008, 12:06 pm

Fair point, I think you should be adressing that question to him, at least if the response is not agreeable or enlightening and you realise you may not reconcile, you have expressed your views. If you believe there is a mutual chance to try again, this show with the third party needs to stop. I agree, it is very careless, verging immoral to act in this way. Enough of my halfwhit responses, too inexperienced to comment upon marital relationships, just relaying observation,

Take care.



Last edited by Jenk on 09 Aug 2008, 2:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

makuranososhi
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09 Aug 2008, 12:10 pm

KimJ wrote:
Since he decided to do this without my consent or prior knowledge, I'm not sure what was said. My son isn't a reliable reporter yet, and he may not want to discuss it. Or he may want to talk about the beautiful woman who stayed at Dad's all weekend.
Since Ex is reneging on so much, I'm really clueless on what he is planning or thinking about this. He had previously told me that he didn't like her anymore, she was crazy, he didn't want to jump into another relationship right away because it would cause problems, etc.

One complication of this is that Dad has Pop on his weekends which means he's probably wanting to see his new girlfriend and thinks that's the best time. I suggested he get a sitter instead but he didn't respond to that. I think any activity with the 3 of them makes it a family event and I'm really upset that he thinks that's okay. I haven't even been properly introduced to the "crazy" and yet she's already in my son's life.
I can't imagine doing that.
The hard part is that I'm still in limbo with the whole procedure. I still want to reconcile and I can't accept the break up. So, I'm having a hard time separating the different losses. I go from wanting to be friendly to Ex, to being frightened by his change in demeanor. The prior breakups were a lot "nicer" than this one. I mean, if he's happy leaving, then why be so angry about it?


Where bolded, I have asked that very question about my former fiance's attitude and demeanor since she ended the relationship some time ago. *shakes head* I don't understand, and don't know that I ever will.

You're in a tough situation... unsure how comfortable you are confronting him regarding how he is handling this. Given your son's diagnosis, this situation needs to be handled in an upfront manner, but also with a degree of forethought and consideration instead of haphazardly. Are the custody arrangements formalized? While I can recognize feeling of limbo, given familiar circumstance, it is also something to consider that he has already made that decision for you... recognizing desire and allowing it to overrule are two different things. In everyone's best interest, seems to me that there needs to be discussion establishing what is going to happen from there on out. Be prepared, and be able to justify why both of you have to compromise to make this work for the sake of both of you and your son. This is a very unpredictable situation... hope things get better soon.


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KimJ
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09 Aug 2008, 3:16 pm

Part of my limbo is that he is changing what he says every minute. This is a man I have been with who was consistent for 12+ years. When I try to say that we should stay friends, he replies that that's what he's doing by still talking to me. But the manner in which he's doing it is radically different than even 2 weeks ago. The other break ups were so upfront and full of compassion and empathy and all of a sudden he's acting like a different person.
I actually was "moving on" before but the recent suggestion of marital counseling (and subsequent reneging of that) has really sent me over the edge. I feel like I've lost control of everything. I'm terrified this will turn into a legal fiasco. He promised it wouldn't. I don't want that for my son. That's not protecting him.
When I suggest that he's not coping well, he gets angry and goes overboard with the topic. I don't know how to discuss it without turning it into an argument.



KimJ
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09 Aug 2008, 5:34 pm

Well, we talked on the phone and debated the whole thing. I'm not happy with his decision but he was convincing enough that he is going to stay "level" with this. He assured me that she isn't staying over at his place when Pop's there, she isn't being referred to as family and that he's constantly monitoring Pop with what's going on. He met her yesterday, she visited for a bit and then tonight they are going to her place to meet her daughter and have pizza.
My next goal is to convince Ex that I should meet this woman so I feel better about the situation. When we first separated and he told me about her, I felt okay with it. It was the stuff he said about her later that has me thrown for a loop.
He's claiming that he said those things about her because "he was hurt"-I guess she led him on and then wasn't available when he was. I suspect what he isn't telling me is that he never changed his ideas about her and lied to me so that I would "reconcile" with him when he wanted to. He was just waiting for her to be available.
I wonder if they break up what will happen? I guess this makes me accept it better. As ego-crushing as it sounds.

Back to Pop, we will keep an eye on him and I'll monitor what he's being exposed to and how he feels about it.



mom2bax
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11 Aug 2008, 5:47 am

well i am was in a similar situation where my ex told me he wanted to work on things a few weeks before his girlfriend was to me moving in with him. that really knocks you for a loop, becasue it rekindles some hope that is then snatched away. i was with my ex for 8-9 years before we split so it's huge. even though we are divorced now there is still a tiny piece of me that is holding on to something. just wishing it could have been diferent. i don't really believe in divorce buit really saw no other option when he was living with another woman.

how available is your ex to talk to?
my ex has thankfully agreed to not introduce her to the kids untill things are stable with the two of them, although not sure when that will be as they've been up and down in the nearly 3 years they've been together.
i know it doesn't work like this for everyone, but we have agreed that before she gets to meet the kids we will all sit down and lay out some ground rules for all of this. and i know ther is no way to actually enforce it i would just hope there's enough respect there to agree and comply.
and that way i actually get to meet her in person too.
my kids are not as old as yours but it's hard onkids of any age.
my thought is to see if he's be willing to meet and go over some ground rules and for you to talk to him about how things were introduced adn what teh plan is for the future so to speak, no matter waht you're still both Pop's parents and you need to agree on things for his benefit
you can't force anything either because he could just push back in the opposite direction and make everything worse there is a fine line to walk with a situation such as this.

just remember he was the one who chose to leave and not work on things, and while things may not show up yet just be extra alert, as i'm sure you are to pick up on stuff from Pop.

another thing i know some parents do is have a communication log that is a book sent back and forth with the child to pass along important messages or occurances of the week/weekend which may be something to suggest seeig as you said Pop is not that able to reecall or share things. it helps you to know what to say or do etc. if you know what's been said or done you don't want to go talking about daddy's girlfriend if she'd only been introduced as a friend. i thelps to attempt to keep you on the same page as each other or at least keep you in the loop as it is important that you know what's going on in your son's life.

my suggestion to you may also be to seek some counselling yourself to help you get through this, it's a really hard thing to go through especially when a forever promise was reneged on.



KimJ
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11 Aug 2008, 8:43 am

I don't get that, why propose a reconciliation when you got someone already?
3 years is a long time to hold off on the introductions, especially when they're living together. But it does sound better. I wish I could have stopped this. He referred to not introducing as "hiding" the relationship. Which is crap to me. It's only been a week and he doesn't have to see her that often, or he could have gotten a sitter. My son saw her twice in 3 days, the second time was for an afternoon and whole evening. He already is calling the woman's daughter his "best friend" (she is a teen with Down's Syndrome and played video games with him).
Ex and I have agreed to interview Pop about his weekends and his feelings about this new thing. I asked him a lot and he seemed thrilled with going to this woman's house but later was upset about Dad having a new girlfriend. He said he was "disappointed in Dad" and "he loves her as much as he loves you". Which shows that he's confused about Ex and I being separated. He's been out of the house since May but I've over there (sleeping over, hanging out) and he's been over here and we've gone out as a family and Pop has seen us romantically connected up until the 26th of July. Then Pop and I went out of town, came back and Dad is suddenly with this person.
For some reason, Ex thinks that because we haven't lived together, Pop would understand that it was okay that Dad has a girlfriend and isn't coming back. Pop thought it was okay that we were living separately but I told Pop that we will eventually divorce and he started crying and got really upset. Most of the kids he knows that have divorced parents are actually missing a parent, sometimes both of them.
This is why he should have waited. A couple weeks, a couple months so that Pop could get used to the idea that Dad and I aren't a couple anymore. He may attach the divorce with this new girlfriend-rightly or wrongly-which may really hurt and confuse him.
Besides protecting my rights as a parent and struggling woman, I'd like to protect my son and husband from unnecessary hurt.

BTW, I've been in therapy for a while now. I have a mood disorder (the source of much of the trouble with us) and I was struggling to fix what was wrong with our relationship. However, it seems that I was years too late.



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11 Aug 2008, 9:51 am

I am sorry everything is so hard for both you and Pop right now. It just stinks.

Question: is Pop in counseling? I noticed how much this helped my son's friend, when his parents got divorced. Granted, the signals there were much less confusing, and that child was NT, but, still, it seems really important that the child have a trust worthy professional to talk to.

I think your recent posts are probably reading things very accurately. Have you shared the thoughts in the last post with your husband? Explained why all that is making everything extra hard on Pop? Be careful not to accuse Ex; he is probably very sensitive to that; approach it more as a "this is what I see; what can we do about it?" talk.

I am so sorry it all is the way it is.


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KimJ
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11 Aug 2008, 10:27 am

Quote:
Be careful not to accuse Ex; he is probably very sensitive to that; approach it more as a "this is what I see; what can we do about it?" talk.


Easier said than done. :wink: I've been coaching myself on what I'm going to say to him and I know it's going to fly out the window when I see him or he drops another bomb on me. I had the talk with my son last night and I'm seeing Ex today. I'm mostly concentrating on staying off the "why can't we go to counseling?" topic, which is still very difficult for me. I'm really entrenched in the rejection aspect and now the loss of credibility aspect of this whole thing.
If he had just waited a few weeks, I think it would have been a lot better for all of us. I don't know how to convey that without sounding accusatory.

My son kinda dropped a bomb on me that will have to get ironed out. He wants to stay at my place an extra night. I asked him again this morning and he said the same thing. I will tell Ex and then see if Pop will repeat it to him. I don't want to look like I'm keeping him from Ex.



mom2bax
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11 Aug 2008, 12:14 pm

it sounds like a huge adjustment and it is totally a bomb too, you're working things out trying to be a family again and then boom it's done and there is someone new, i wonder if Pop may think that if he does stuff dad doesn't like if he'll get a new kid. it's funny how kids think.
your ex brought it upon himself and the new girlfriend if Pop blames her for the breakup because although there were other reasons she is ultimately the rason you're done. she showed up and you'reno longer a family anymore, and i think regardless of diagnosis mostkids of divorced parents will want them to reconcile.
maybe see if ec is willing to put time limits on how much she sees him while he has Pop he's got all the rest of the week to see her while only a limited time with Pop. (if i understand he only sees him on weekends). if you can figure out a way to remind him that his prority is to his son and not to this new girlfriend.
hope you're holding up okay



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11 Aug 2008, 12:35 pm

Kim, I totally know the "easier said than done" aspect of life. One of the reasons I often post things that I think the other person already knows; reinforcement, maybe a chance to solidify the thought.

I am so very bad at following my own advice, lol. Shame, really. It isn't lack of knowledge; the problem is somewhere else, which makes it so much more difficult to fix.

I wish I could do more to help you with everything going on. I can't, of course. But I feel for you.


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KimJ
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11 Aug 2008, 4:17 pm

Well, we spoke today and it was mixed. I explained that Pop was upset about Dad's new girlfriend and he said he wouldn't take him there anymore for a while. Part of the reason he wouldn't comply with my request is that "he doesn't trust me" enough to even give my theories any weight. This is another new thing.
He said my idea that Pop would be hurt by the suddenness of this girlfriend was "illogical" and he saw no reason to wait. No matter how many times I tried to explain the "buffer zone" idea (creating some time where Pop sees us apart before learning that Dad has a girlfriend) he doesn't believe me. Though, I was right. Pop was hurt because one week he saw Dad and I together and the next week, he saw Dad's new girlfriend.

One of the insulting things he said is that he doesn't listen to me when I refer to my "internet sources". I'm relaying information from people "who have been there" and he thinks "99% of people are stupid" and why should he listen to them? I held my opinions before I asked y'all, I just wanted some back up and other examples. Okay, next time I have a theory, I'll look up a study on it and present my case. :roll:
That rationality in itself is illogical because he doesn't have to believe me to at least comply or compromise. He could have waited long enough to give me a chance to explain better (arguing with my son in the car wasn't well-planned). He just wants to do what he wants and doesn't want to give my opinions weight at all.

Another thing that worries me is that he sees these issues as minor. I complained that I'm having trust issues with him because he has gone back on promises concerning this (and other things). He doesn't understand the consequences of bad-mouthing his girlfriend, promising not to introduce them so quickly, or promising that he would only introduce them while they actually met twice-one being the long drawn out family thing at her house.



mom2bax
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12 Aug 2008, 2:07 am

to me it sounds like your ex is just trying to justify his actions to meet his needs and wants.
tell him if he doesn't believe you to actually look stuff up about kids and seperation issues and he'll see exactly the same thing you're telling him.
or if you don't mind lookin it up i would like you said Kim, find stufies and print tehm off or direct him to the websites etc. or you can take out books on th subject too.
Trust issues in one area inevitabley spill out onto all others.

although i would strongly suggest the communication book thing that way stuff is written down and you are les likely to get into an arguement.
you could even pu tin there things you would like him to look for in Pop's behavior and just let you know.