Meltdowns killing our relationship

Page 2 of 3 [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Apatura
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,398

11 Aug 2008, 1:19 pm

ouinon wrote:
I discovered that, for my son at least, the age for toilet training was never; in that he went from day-nappies to no nappies in a day, aged 5, and the same for night nappies, aged 6, no training, and almost no accidents once he was ready. Putting on clothes was the same, but later.


She might be required by childcare to have him potty trained. Most preschools will not take a child who is not potty trained by age 3 1/2 or so... unless it is a special ed preschool.

We had to "force" our daughter to potty train because no matter how careful I was with her diapers, she was getting serious staph infections, one of which landed her in the hospital. So we just took the diapers off of her... yes there were lots of accidents and it was stressful for everyone, but ultimately it's for the best. It took about two weeks for her to fully use the potty (she still won't use a real potty, but the little potty chair).

It's also better for the environment to get a child out of diapers as soon as possible.



DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,194
Location: Northern California

11 Aug 2008, 1:33 pm

Apatura wrote:
ouinon wrote:
I discovered that, for my son at least, the age for toilet training was never; in that he went from day-nappies to no nappies in a day, aged 5, and the same for night nappies, aged 6, no training, and almost no accidents once he was ready. Putting on clothes was the same, but later.


She might be required by childcare to have him potty trained. Most preschools will not take a child who is not potty trained by age 3 1/2 or so... unless it is a special ed preschool.

We had to "force" our daughter to potty train because no matter how careful I was with her diapers, she was getting serious staph infections, one of which landed her in the hospital. So we just took the diapers off of her... yes there were lots of accidents and it was stressful for everyone, but ultimately it's for the best. It took about two weeks for her to fully use the potty (she still won't use a real potty, but the little potty chair).

It's also better for the environment to get a child out of diapers as soon as possible.


One of those situations where what is best for one unique child can run smack into reality.

I'm totally on-board, in theory, with Ouinon on this, but we didn't have the luxury of allowing it, either. Fortunately, my AS son was ready when we needed him to be; my NT daughter was actually more problematic, and she continued to have frequent accidents through age 5, and even had one at age 7. The preschool accepted accidents, as long as they could tell the child was "mostly" trained. I'm just glad I wasn't there cleaning it all up all the time!

Still, for a parent to allow a child to be on his own time for as many skills as possible is a positive thing. It's all about balance, picking and choosing battles, as basically all of parenting is.


_________________
Mom to an amazing AS son, who recently graduated from the university (plus an also amazing non-AS daughter). Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,194
Location: Northern California

11 Aug 2008, 1:36 pm

Quote:
Quote:
I would sing ABC through twice, saying after the first round "next time you will come with me (or dress yourself, etc), and after the second round, "now its time to come with me."


This is actually quite brilliant. It is like you lifted the top of his head off and peered into his brain. Singing > talking to him, always. You should write a book called "how to get kids to do stuff".
When I ask him to do things, sometimes he will echo me ("brush your tee-eeth") or he will echo me and add opposition ("don't brush your teeth") and if I start counting to 5 or 10 he will sometimes think it's a game and continue counting. It's so hit-or-miss which is what gets hard. The singing thing is a stroke of brilliance though, I will have to try that. The child speaks music.


I hope singing can work for you! My son wasn't musical but it worked anyway, lol. If he had been musical, I am sure it would have been a plus. I have to say, one thing I enjoyed about the routine was how much other adults liked it. As self-conscious as I tended to be about singing in my poor voice in public, people always seemed amazed (and happy) that it worked so well. OK, I'm not AS, but I really, really liked having that affirmation, of people around me responding with smiles and positive comments to a parenting choice.


_________________
Mom to an amazing AS son, who recently graduated from the university (plus an also amazing non-AS daughter). Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


Last edited by DW_a_mom on 11 Aug 2008, 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,455
Location: Europe

11 Aug 2008, 1:37 pm

Apatura wrote:
She might be required by childcare to have him potty trained. Most preschools will not take a child who is not potty trained by age 3 1/2 or so... unless it is a special ed preschool.

Yes, nightmare.

Quote:
We had to "force" our daughter to potty train because no matter how careful I was with her diapers, she was getting serious staph infections, one of which landed her in the hospital.

Golly, how on earth did that happen? How do you get a staph infection from nappy use?

Quote:
It's also better for the environment to get a child out of diapers as soon as possible.

I know, that was one of the main reasons why I felt such pressure to toilet train at 3 and again at 4. Not having a baby at all would have been even better.

Had friends living on a little abandoned farm at one point whose two young children ran around pissing in the bushes, and shitting in a couple of hay toilets, and if they didn't manage to it wasn't a problem.

.



patternist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,389
Location: at my computer

11 Aug 2008, 1:38 pm

Quote:
She might be required by childcare to have him potty trained. Most preschools will not take a child who is not potty trained by age 3 1/2 or so... unless it is a special ed preschool.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I want him out of the daycare he's in right now, the teacher has been pressuring me to teach him to dress himself and put his shoes/socks on (shoes are easy, socks are a nightmare), which makes me not like her so much, but I realize we're pretty much stuck with it until he can go to school in his spiderman undies. School system is in the process of evaluating him for special ed, but can't see him for a formal eval until late August, we're almost there, might get saved by the bell, but even then I'll probably need an afterschool program of some sort for him.

He's picking up potty training pretty well all things considered, and I don't think I'm rushing him too much, he seems to be getting it. Clothes are a mystery - he, like myself, has spatial/motor-planning issues (we both dance beautifully until we run right into a wall, lol) but I get frustrated when he doesn't practice. And there is so much outside pressure all of a sudden.



Apatura
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,398

11 Aug 2008, 1:53 pm

ouinon wrote:
Golly, how on earth did that happen? How do you get a staph infection from nappy use?


Basically it's a diaper rash that gets infected-- the moisture and lack of breathability caused by diapers is an ideal breeding ground for staph.



patternist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,389
Location: at my computer

11 Aug 2008, 1:54 pm

Quote:
Leave it up to him to learn at his speed and if you need him dressed for things etc then do it yourself. Like that he will not pick up the awful habit of making other people do things that he wants done whether they do or not, but to do them himself .


That's another concern of mine, though, is that if I keep doing things for him, he will expect it. I don't actually ask him to do things for me that I could do for myself ("hey kid, bring mommy the remote!") and it's actually easier for me to put his clothes on for him. A LOT easier.

I didn't put clothes on all by myself until I was about 5. I don't really care about shirts and soforth, but potty training (which he gets the concept of) won't happen until he can at least pull his pants down/up. Unfortunately, I have to work and he has to go to preschool without me.



Tortuga
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 609

11 Aug 2008, 2:29 pm

If your son is HFA and only 3.5 years old, you need to realize that he can't always follow through with what you're telling him to do. He might not actually understand what you are asking him to do, then you throw in some yelling then he's completing confused.

My son did not dress himself (all by himself) until around age 6. He sometimes has great difficulty understanding me, even though he talks very well. Only at age 10, has he started to ask me to repeat what I just said when he doesn't understand. When he was younger, he wouldn't try to figure out my words and it took me a long time to understand how little he was grasping at times.

I feel bad for you. It will definitely try your patience to parent a young child with ASD. Do you get any special ed services through the school. He should probably qualify for special ed preschool and they will work on self-help skills.



patternist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,389
Location: at my computer

11 Aug 2008, 2:32 pm

Quote:
Do you get any special ed services through the school.


Thanks for your reply. Please read my post where I said "we have an interivew with the school system special ed team" or something to that effect.

There seems to be the general idea that my expectations are too high. Okay, I get that. Let me put a finer point on it: what is there that I can do now to be solution-oriented, to repair our relationship, and to help him learn? Patience is obviously not my strong point, nor is it his.

Yeah, obviously yelling isn't the best thing to do. I feel horrible about it. That's why I'm posting this.

!



ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,455
Location: Europe

11 Aug 2008, 2:44 pm

patternist wrote:
Quote:
Leave it up to him to learn at his speed and if you need him dressed for things etc then do it yourself. Like that he will not pick up the awful habit of making other people do things that he wants done whether they do or not, but to do them himself .
That's another concern of mine, though, is that if I keep doing things for him, he will expect it.

I actually meant the opposite, that by teaching a child to do things themselves which they don't yet feel any need to do, just because you need/want them done, you teach that it is right to expect people to do things whether they want to or not, simply because someone else wants them to.

Quote:
Unfortunately, I have to work and he has to go to preschool without me.

This makes me think, because it is so often apparently the reason for the pressures on children to do stuff before they are ready, whether it was/is the last 25 years of absence of either parent, or other close family, at home in the lives of most children today which is fuelling the increase in numbers of children diagnosed as AS/ADHD etc. Children who would have learned, later, now aren't allowed to. Now they have to do it by age 3/4.

So many of the difficulties that I read about in this forum are the result of social pressures, whether child-care rules, or school, etc, requiring children to attain one standard of development after another, which 50 years ago did not exist, in order to enable their parents to deposit them somewhere while they both go out to work.

When did the "freedom to work" for women become an obligation/necessity? When did children become bondsmen/apprentices from 3/4/5 years old obliged to work long hours and achieve targets which previously they had 3-5 more years to arrive at, because their parents are so poorly paid that both of them have to work to support the family?

AS is a socially-produced phenomenon. Give children time again, and many of the problems which occur and reoccur here would vanish overnight.

PS. And school is one of the most powerful and widespread and socially accepted mechanisms for "killing" parent-child relationships, for separating the generations, for rendering parents redundant, irrelevant, ridiculous in the eyes of their children.

.



patternist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,389
Location: at my computer

11 Aug 2008, 3:38 pm

Quote:
I'm totally on-board, in theory, with Ouinon on this, but we didn't have the luxury of allowing it, either.


Yep. I agree in theory. I wish society were structured with families' (not businesses', not governments') best interests in mind. I wish I didn't have to work and leave him with someone else. I wish I could assist him at the level I want to. The guilt makes me sick to my stomach sometimes. Every day. But I can't just not work. Not and have a place to live, too. And to come full circle, I don't feel good about leaving him with his dad, because his dad doesn't really interact with him. He doesn't know how to.

I am trying to teach him and I am not a good teacher. I am frustrated with myself/the situation, actually, not with him. He is getting it, but the pressure is getting to me.

Quote:
AS is a socially-produced phenomenon.

I'm not so sure about this. A phenomenon that is more easily recognized in the context of our society? Yeah. A phenomenon that occurs because of it? Not sure.



KimJ
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,540
Location: Arizona

11 Aug 2008, 3:58 pm

Hi, I'm new to broken households and learning myself.
I understand that your ex is out of work but not watching your son. I question the necessity of that? Perhaps there is an underlying issue with why he is unable to work or watch your son and that's a whole other kettle of fish. But if he is able to watch your son, he should and thus alleviate your financial problems with daycare for the time being. The fact that you're paying child support and daycare when your ex could be watching him more often sounds very aggravating. Just my opinion.

Since your son has speech issues, it's very likely he doesn't absorb/comprehend what you are saying verbally when you say it. Many autistic kids can have uneven speech skills, they can express themselves or follow a script and sound appropriate. At the same time, they may not understand "simple" instructions or descriptions. The best way to deal with this and still promote speech is to write down schedules and instructions. Drawing pictures and writing down simple directions helps a child model the expected behavior. Using a familiar character, a favorite hero, doing the action really encourages the child.
I know for privacy reasons, your son may not see other children using the potty at daycare. My son didn't start using a toilet until he was enrolled in special ed preschool and was introduced to urinals in public restrooms. It took quite a few months for him to bring that new skill home. He wasn't out of pull ups until 5 and he was still bed-wetting until 7.

As far as the tantrums go, been there, done that too. Your best bet is to redirect yourself from the situation. Find something to laugh at or think about. I often found that the calmer I was, the smoother it went with my son, further making me feel even better about the situation.

PS I just read your comment about his dad. Is his dad unsafe? Do the cons really outweigh the pros? If your ex can provide a safe place and follow basic conditions, then you should really consider asking him too. Or take away the child support. If you can find a way to alleviate your financial burden, you may be able to deal with your stress issues easier-or even provide a more direct teaching opportunity for your son.



patternist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,389
Location: at my computer

11 Aug 2008, 4:18 pm

Quote:
PS I just read your comment about his dad. Is his dad unsafe? Do the cons really outweigh the pros? If your ex can provide a safe place and follow basic conditions, then you should really consider asking him too. Or take away the child support. If you can find a way to alleviate your financial burden, you may be able to deal with your stress issues easier-or even provide a more direct teaching opportunity for your son.


Wow, I never meant for it to seem like his dad was unsafe. Not unsafe, just not much of a teacher. Griffin has demonstrated benefits from an enriching environment, and it is consensus that his dad, while being a nice, protective, loving father, thinks nothing of planting Griff (or himself) in front of the TV for hours. Or behind a baby gate while Dad is on the computer.

Quote:
it's very likely he doesn't absorb/comprehend what you are saying verbally when you say it. Many autistic kids can have uneven speech skills, they can express themselves or follow a script and sound appropriate.


This is true. Sometimes I wonder how much he really gets. When he does follow directions, it takes him a few seconds to a) realize I'm talking to him b) understand what I mean. c) follow through. While I realize this on one level, and it helped me to realize this, it still doesn't keep me from losing it that one-out-of-a-hundred times. I wish it did.

Quote:
I know for privacy reasons, your son may not see other children using the potty at daycare. My son didn't start using a toilet until he was enrolled in special ed preschool and was introduced to urinals in public restrooms.


His dad and I actually used to let him watch us use the restroom for this reason.

Quote:
As far as the tantrums go, been there, done that too. Your best bet is to redirect yourself from the situation. Find something to laugh at or think about. I often found that the calmer I was, the smoother it went with my son, further making me feel even better about the situation.


This, and the advice of time-outs for parent and child alike, is very good advice.



KimJ
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,540
Location: Arizona

11 Aug 2008, 4:30 pm

Quote:
His dad and I actually used to let him watch us use the restroom for this reason.


I learned the hard way that this doesn't always work. My son never learned from watching mommy and daddy doing stuff. It was always initiated by seeing other kids. Plus, I lost a lot of boundaries with personal space that led to increased problems with my son and husband.



patternist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,389
Location: at my computer

11 Aug 2008, 6:19 pm

Quote:
I learned the hard way that this doesn't always work. My son never learned from watching mommy and daddy doing stuff.


Well, I guess you're right about that. I think it did make him more comfortable, though. He at least has not yet showed fear of the flush or of falling in.