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JohnPowell
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12 Mar 2019, 12:54 pm

This last week was a great chance for the left to prove how much they care about LGBT rights when Chelsea Manning was thrown back in prison. They were either silent or cheering as the Trump Administraton threw Manning back in jail, when usually they would criticise anything Trump does including making peace and ending wars.

With regards to Ilhan Omar, the left and right had a great chance to show their principles. The left had a chance to defend a black immigrant who's a Muslim. Again, they were either silent or jumped on the bandwagon of hatred against her. The right wing who usually complain about identity politics and people screaming about racism, screamed racism louder than anyone as she criticised the Israel lobby. No defense of free speech and the Constitution they usually cite.

It's pretty terrible who society's alleged principles change with the wind and with whatever suits their agenda. It was only a few weeks ago where liberals were singing about Ocasio Cortez's speech about money influencing politics, but those same people either shut up with Omar talked about the same thing with regards to the powerful Israel lobby.

Where's the consistency?


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The_Walrus
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12 Mar 2019, 1:04 pm

Manning being trans doesn't make her imprisonment an LGBT issue just as Barack Obama chipping a nail isn't a black rights issue. She knowingly and deliberately committed a crime which she knew would be punished in this exact way. I have seen a lot of outrage from her supporters on the lunatic fringe but frankly most people know she's brought this upon herself. It's also nothing to do with Trump.

As for Omar, like AOC she's an anti-Semite and it's good to see that the Democratic Party is prepared to stand up to her - if only the Labour Party was brave enough to expel Corbyn. It is a bit shameful that AOC hasn't been treated the same way, but supporting Omar because she's black, Muslim, and an immigrant would be the worst case of "identity politics". Fact is that she's said bigoted things and people who have genuine principles beyond "Israel bad" and "America bad" will rightfully line up to condemn her words.



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12 Mar 2019, 1:10 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
This last week was a great chance for the left to prove how much they care about LGBT rights when Chelsea Manning was thrown back in prison...
Manning was arrested and put in jail (not prison) for refusing to testify before grand jury in Virginia. Being LGBTQ has nothing to do with Manning's arrest.
JohnPowell wrote:
With regards to Ilhan Omar, the left and right had a great chance to show their principles. The left had a chance to defend a black immigrant who's a Muslim...
Being a Muslim does not protect someone from ridicule for saying stupid things.

You're pretending that sex and/or religious affiliation should somehow motivate intelligent and educated people to come to their defense, when it is obvious that both Manning and Omar are clearly in the wrong. Equally obvious is your contempt for anyone who doesn't follow your anti-America agenda.

There is no place in the real world for Identity Politics.



JohnPowell
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12 Mar 2019, 4:48 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Manning being trans doesn't make her imprisonment an LGBT issue just as Barack Obama chipping a nail isn't a black rights issue. She knowingly and deliberately committed a crime which she knew would be punished in this exact way. I have seen a lot of outrage from her supporters on the lunatic fringe but frankly most people know she's brought this upon herself. It's also nothing to do with Trump.

As for Omar, like AOC she's an anti-Semite and it's good to see that the Democratic Party is prepared to stand up to her - if only the Labour Party was brave enough to expel Corbyn. It is a bit shameful that AOC hasn't been treated the same way, but supporting Omar because she's black, Muslim, and an immigrant would be the worst case of "identity politics". Fact is that she's said bigoted things and people who have genuine principles beyond "Israel bad" and "America bad" will rightfully line up to condemn her words.


I didn't say that. I don't subscribe to identity politics. If Trump had locked away a transsexual for doing something else heroic that people hadn't been conditioned to support then the left would have gone nuts. Manning released a video showing US Marines shooting up a family car and a Reuters journalist. And showing the Marines deliberately target the civilians and laugh about it. If one of our 'enemy' countries had a soldier that did the same past or present, the reaction would be the polar opposite.

The might of the whole US administration, pretty much all of the US Congress and House, the whole media, Israel and their lobby groups standing up against a young migrant lady? :roll: That's utterly absurd. True words are condemned, a racial apartheid system is supported and funded.


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JohnPowell
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12 Mar 2019, 5:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
This last week was a great chance for the left to prove how much they care about LGBT rights when Chelsea Manning was thrown back in prison...
Manning was arrested and put in jail (not prison) for refusing to testify before grand jury in Virginia. Being LGBTQ has nothing to do with Manning's arrest.
JohnPowell wrote:
With regards to Ilhan Omar, the left and right had a great chance to show their principles. The left had a chance to defend a black immigrant who's a Muslim...
Being a Muslim does not protect someone from ridicule for saying stupid things.

You're pretending that sex and/or religious affiliation should somehow motivate intelligent and educated people to come to their defense, when it is obvious that both Manning and Omar are clearly in the wrong. Equally obvious is your contempt for anyone who doesn't follow your anti-America agenda.

There is no place in the real world for Identity Politics.


Manning wouldn't testify to try and imprison a real journalist.

I'm saying no such thing. I'm saying the left would usually make it a case of identity politics.

I don't support American Marines blowing up journalists and civilians and laughing about it. Do You?


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Antrax
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13 Mar 2019, 1:36 am

Your problem is you expected ideological consistency out of politicians that align themselves with movements that are inherently inconsistent.

I won't comment on Manning as I have read very little about that situation. Regarding Omar I disagree with her comments, as in general I tend to be Pro-Israel and see nothing wrong with members of congress voicing their support with our closest and most consistent ally in the most volatile region of the world. But, did not think they were anti-semitic. I'm not inclined to see comments that could easily be taken at face value as some kind of slur.

I do find it hilarious whenever the identity politics driven democrats eat one of their own.


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15 Mar 2019, 3:11 am

JohnPowell wrote:
This last week was a great chance for the left to prove how much they care about LGBT rights when Chelsea Manning was thrown back in prison. They were either silent or cheering as the Trump Administraton threw Manning back in jail, when usually they would criticise anything Trump does including making peace and ending wars.

With regards to Ilhan Omar, the left and right had a great chance to show their principles. The left had a chance to defend a black immigrant who's a Muslim. Again, they were either silent or jumped on the bandwagon of hatred against her. The right wing who usually complain about identity politics and people screaming about racism, screamed racism louder than anyone as she criticised the Israel lobby. No defense of free speech and the Constitution they usually cite.

It's pretty terrible who society's alleged principles change with the wind and with whatever suits their agenda. It was only a few weeks ago where liberals were singing about Ocasio Cortez's speech about money influencing politics, but those same people either shut up with Omar talked about the same thing with regards to the powerful Israel lobby.

Where's the consistency?


The conservatives over here in Oz say the same about the left-wingers...

The left is very big on promoting women's rights but this comes in second to pacifying the Muslim community who are overwhelmingly perceived as rusted on lefties...

Politics is a great catalyst in the creation of hypocrisy...
Politics and politician...<hold nose> :eew:

Q: What do you call 2,000 politicians in the vacuum of space?
A: A bloody good start... :mrgreen:


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"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


JohnPowell
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15 Mar 2019, 5:11 am

Antrax wrote:
Your problem is you expected ideological consistency out of politicians that align themselves with movements that are inherently inconsistent.

I won't comment on Manning as I have read very little about that situation. Regarding Omar I disagree with her comments, as in general I tend to be Pro-Israel and see nothing wrong with members of congress voicing their support with our closest and most consistent ally in the most volatile region of the world. But, did not think they were anti-semitic. I'm not inclined to see comments that could easily be taken at face value as some kind of slur.

I do find it hilarious whenever the identity politics driven democrats eat one of their own.


Haha Yeah, it's fun to watch in some ways.

Israel is no ally though.


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JohnPowell
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15 Mar 2019, 5:11 am

Pepe wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
This last week was a great chance for the left to prove how much they care about LGBT rights when Chelsea Manning was thrown back in prison. They were either silent or cheering as the Trump Administraton threw Manning back in jail, when usually they would criticise anything Trump does including making peace and ending wars.

With regards to Ilhan Omar, the left and right had a great chance to show their principles. The left had a chance to defend a black immigrant who's a Muslim. Again, they were either silent or jumped on the bandwagon of hatred against her. The right wing who usually complain about identity politics and people screaming about racism, screamed racism louder than anyone as she criticised the Israel lobby. No defense of free speech and the Constitution they usually cite.

It's pretty terrible who society's alleged principles change with the wind and with whatever suits their agenda. It was only a few weeks ago where liberals were singing about Ocasio Cortez's speech about money influencing politics, but those same people either shut up with Omar talked about the same thing with regards to the powerful Israel lobby.

Where's the consistency?


The conservatives over here in Oz say the same about the left-wingers...

The left is very big on promoting women's rights but this comes in second to pacifying the Muslim community who are overwhelmingly perceived as rusted on lefties...

Politics is a great catalyst in the creation of hypocrisy...
Politics and politician...<hold nose> :eew:

Q: What do you call 2,000 politicians in the vacuum of space?
A: A bloody good start... :mrgreen:


Ouch :lol:


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Pepe
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15 Mar 2019, 10:42 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Pepe wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
This last week was a great chance for the left to prove how much they care about LGBT rights when Chelsea Manning was thrown back in prison. They were either silent or cheering as the Trump Administraton threw Manning back in jail, when usually they would criticise anything Trump does including making peace and ending wars.

With regards to Ilhan Omar, the left and right had a great chance to show their principles. The left had a chance to defend a black immigrant who's a Muslim. Again, they were either silent or jumped on the bandwagon of hatred against her. The right wing who usually complain about identity politics and people screaming about racism, screamed racism louder than anyone as she criticised the Israel lobby. No defense of free speech and the Constitution they usually cite.

It's pretty terrible who society's alleged principles change with the wind and with whatever suits their agenda. It was only a few weeks ago where liberals were singing about Ocasio Cortez's speech about money influencing politics, but those same people either shut up with Omar talked about the same thing with regards to the powerful Israel lobby.

Where's the consistency?


The conservatives over here in Oz say the same about the left-wingers...

The left is very big on promoting women's rights but this comes in second to pacifying the Muslim community who are overwhelmingly perceived as rusted on lefties...

Politics is a great catalyst in the creation of hypocrisy...
Politics and politician...<hold nose> :eew:

Q: What do you call 2,000 politicians in the vacuum of space?
A: A bloody good start... :mrgreen:


Ouch :lol:


And there has been a paradigm shift by the conservatives in regards to the Paris agreement...
Even though 60% of Australians surveyed believe we have done enough, some politicians are scrambling to be born again climate change believers due to their shaky re-election prospects...

Q: What is black and tan and looks good on a politician?
A: A Doberman pinscher... :mrgreen:

Yes, I know...
I need to create new material... 8O


_________________
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


JohnPowell
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16 Mar 2019, 1:34 am

Hehe


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