As Minnesotan I can affirm that Defund the police is stupid

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funeralxempire
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02 May 2021, 2:56 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, that makes sense. But since this issue was born out of the George Floyd issue was sending the police to arrest him for counterfeit money, not the proper people to call though? Even though the police grossly mishandled it, should they have sent a different organization in the first place?


While George Floyd's death has been a strong rallying point for police reform not every reform is focused on the specifics of his murder because it's not just about him, he's just the person who's murder was the tipping point.


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ironpony
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02 May 2021, 6:40 pm

Oh okay I see. Well I feel that the slogan should be 'reform the police' then as that just seems to sound more accurate, where as defund has I think more misleading and negative connotations to it perhaps.



ASPartOfMe
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03 May 2021, 8:46 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. Thanks, that helps explain it. Another thing is, in the news a lot of police departments are being defunded rather than being reformed though. That is, large chunks of money are taken out of the budget, rather than any actual reform happening so far.

Why are police officers standing for this. Why don't police departments just go on strike, and they refuse to come back to work, until they get their money and budgets back?

There have been reported incidents of the “blue flu”. This involves calling in sick when they are not, doing the very minimum they are required to do, and deliberately following the rules in such a manner as to be obstructive.


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funeralxempire
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03 May 2021, 10:01 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. Thanks, that helps explain it. Another thing is, in the news a lot of police departments are being defunded rather than being reformed though. That is, large chunks of money are taken out of the budget, rather than any actual reform happening so far.

Why are police officers standing for this. Why don't police departments just go on strike, and they refuse to come back to work, until they get their money and budgets back?

There have been reported incidents of the “blue flu”. This involves calling in sick when they are not, doing the very minimum they are required to do, and deliberately following the rules in such a manner as to be obstructive.


Sounds like some guys who are volunteering to be in the first wave of layoffs. :lol:


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ironpony
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06 May 2021, 12:26 am

Well it was said before that the police may have too much money and that defunding is a good thing. But if that's true and they have too much money, how is faking sick days going to help? It's not like the police will stop giving into defunding just so officers will stop faking sick days, or will they, and that is the sickness faking officers' plan?



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06 May 2021, 5:49 am

ironpony wrote:
Well it was said before that the police may have too much money and that defunding is a good thing. But if that's true and they have too much money, how is faking sick days going to help? It's not like the police will stop giving into defunding just so officers will stop faking sick days, or will they, and that is the sickness faking officers' plan?

The purpose behind blue flue is twofold.
1. To go on strike while not officially calling it a strike. In many places it is illegal for public employees to go on strike. Here in New York with the Taylor law public employees who go on strike are docked two days pay for every day they go on strike.

2. To say to the public “You think we need to defunded, see how you like it without us.”


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06 May 2021, 7:47 am

funeralxempire wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
No....but, within an American context, having a "national police" would set a bad precedent.


America already has a national police force, they just don't handle everything because they're not allowed.

kitesandtrainsandcats makes a case for why it's not possible to expand the role of the FBI but that doesn't mean that nation-wide standards can't be created and enforced by the DoJ. They'd be less likely to be corrupted by personal relationships with members of local policing so would likely be more trustworthy than any sort of internal affairs type of unit that's still part of the local police.


The Federal government cannot enforce State law for very good reasons. We have a system of Federal, State, Tribal, and local powers. However, there are Federal laws (civil rights, for example) that State law enforcement must conform to. The DOJ does get involved with those cases. And if you think national standards would be easy, how would gun laws be unified?

As far as the Federal government being less corrupt, I would point to the last administration for an example. Federal law enforcement and military was used against peaceful demonstrations (and technically, the military should not be used on its own people).



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06 May 2021, 9:29 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well it was said before that the police may have too much money and that defunding is a good thing. But if that's true and they have too much money, how is faking sick days going to help? It's not like the police will stop giving into defunding just so officers will stop faking sick days, or will they, and that is the sickness faking officers' plan?

The purpose behind blue flue is twofold.
1. To go on strike while not officially calling it a strike. In many places it is illegal for public employees to go on strike. Here in New York with the Taylor law public employees who go on strike are docked two days pay for every day they go on strike.

2. To say to the public “You think we need to defunded, see how you like it without us.”


But when you go on strike, you are giving your employers an ultimatum for better condidtions, so why do people care if it's illegal to go on strike? Just do it anyway?

I've never heard of a group of people being prosecuted for going on strike, unless it has happened, where the prosecution was successful and they got a conviction? Giving your employers an ultimatum but only wanting to do it if it's not technically illegal, seems like the very definition of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.