Page 14 of 18 [ 282 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next

ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 36
Posts: 2,697
Location: canada

10 May 2021, 5:05 pm

Oh yes, I understand the reason why people are trumatized by it, but why is that causing trauma? I mean aren't people being sensitive if it's causing trauma? I mean for example, I just watched The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo recently, and I was fine with the subject matter in that and accepted it as part of the story. So why are people getting bent of shape with Snow White in comparison?



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 75,734
Location: Queens, NYC

10 May 2021, 5:11 pm

I don't feel people should get "bent out of shape" over Snow White.

Snow White was sleeping for like 100 years. Prince Charming's kiss woke her up. What Prince Charming did was morally upright, to me.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,144
Location: Long Island, New York

10 May 2021, 5:54 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
That’s called “common sense.” Rather like the relationship between yelling “fire” in a theater when there is none—and its
relationship with Freedom of Speech.

But what “woke” folks are seeking to censor is rather like what the Moral Majority sought to censor in the 1980s.

And what people who felt “moral” sought to censor in the old days.

It just goes too far, to me.


Consensus should win out over common sense.

Consensus and Common sense have gone the way of the horse and buggy in America.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,060

10 May 2021, 7:03 pm

ironpony wrote:
But when it comes to the kiss in Snow White who is being traumatized by that, or where are these complaints on that coming from?


kraftiekortie wrote:
Snow White is supposed to not have "consented" to the kiss from Prince Charming......


My understanding is that with the #Metoo movement that scenes like princes kissing sleeping maidens (whether they be snow white or sleeping beauty) depict scenes where that reinforce the idea that a strange man can physically touch/kiss a woman while she is sleeping. By extension it may also reinforce the idea you can kiss random people's babies in public and other ideas.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 75,734
Location: Queens, NYC

10 May 2021, 7:27 pm

Oh come on!

Context is key. It's obvious why Prince Charming was kissing Snow White.

It'd be obvious to a three-year-old who was listening to the story.

If somebody was a "masher" in the 19th century, it would be stated in the story.

I don't see anything immoral about kissing babies; but there's the contagious disease component----and the fact that babies might not feel good about a stranger kissing them.

I doubt that most people would go up to a random baby in the street, and kiss him/her.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,060

10 May 2021, 10:11 pm

Well the baby issue is probably another thread.

Context is probably ok for an older teen/adult who has the cognitive maturity to know the circumstance.

For little boys and girls it might plant the idea (or so the argument goes) that men want to kiss sleeping women.

Who knows? perhaps it might result in a PG rating for Snow white.



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 36
Posts: 2,697
Location: canada

10 May 2021, 11:18 pm

Well when it comes to movies I feel like the woke generation is just way too sensitive. For example, not saying my sister is necessarily woke, but maybe she is, cause she is offended easily by movie content... She rewatched Aladdin (1992) recently, and was offeneded that Jasmine chose to use seduction as a weapon to lure Jaffar into a false sense of security to help get the drop on him.

But so what? If you have something you can use as a weapon against a wrongdoer, use it. Is something that really something to get offended over? I just feel so many people have become prudes when it comes to movies nowadays.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,060

11 May 2021, 1:44 am

ironpony wrote:
Well when it comes to movies I feel like the woke generation is just way too sensitive. For example, not saying my sister is necessarily woke, but maybe she is, cause she is offended easily by movie content... She rewatched Aladdin (1992) recently, and was offeneded that Jasmine chose to use seduction as a weapon to lure Jaffar into a false sense of security to help get the drop on him.

But so what? If you have something you can use as a weapon against a wrongdoer, use it. Is something that really something to get offended over? I just feel so many people have become prudes when it comes to movies nowadays.


I think the solution is to do what they did for the Harry Potter franchise. Basically stick an M rating (for a mature audience 15 years and over) so that parents expose their kids at their own risk.



Gentleman Argentum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2019
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 509
Location: State of Euphoria

11 May 2021, 1:48 am

ironpony wrote:
Well the problem with the woke generation and cancel culture in my opinion, is that people are canceled for doing something politically incorrect even if it's way in their past... but a lot of people in the woke generation do not lead politically correct lives and I bet if you were to dig into their pasts all the way to their child hood, heavy investigation, you will find that they have done something that would be considered politically incorrect at some point. No one is perfect. And that's the hypocrisy is that they want to be fascist towards others and cancel them when they refuse to look into their mirror and realize that they have done politically incorrect things in their pasts as well.

They don't believe in the idealogy, "let me who is without sin, cast the first stone" as the quote goes. Now the idealogy is "let all us hypocritical sinners cast stones"

So to say that it's a good thing for calling people out who have done something poltically incorrect in their pasts, or at some point, okay but if you choose to call someone out for that, then you can not have done or said anything to anyone that is politically incorrect your entire life, or you are a hypocrite. And that's why the woke generation seemst to give off a bad vibe because they act like they are a sinless Messiah come to Earth in the flesh, who has the right to judge, when they are just flawed humans like anyone else, but will not accept that.


I agree with this - I say let bygones be bygones, with comedians and politicians...and regular people. What matters is who someone is now, not five years ago...

We are all human...and should be allowed to apologize and go on with our lives.

Also, two wrongs don't make a right.

I am against the many excesses of the "Woke" generation.


_________________
Just a few of my favorite things: music, chess, weather.


Gentleman Argentum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2019
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 509
Location: State of Euphoria

11 May 2021, 1:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
According to many conservatives, I am a "libtard."

The recent Snow White thing (and many other instances of PC) reminds of when Shakespeare was Bowdlerized in the 18th-19th centuries.

There's lots of ribald stuff in Shakespeare which "offended" people in the Enlightenment Era---so they rewrote Shakespeare to make it "cleaner," hence "Bowdlerizing" it.

Shakespeare's work, unBowdlerized, is essentially a masterpiece, and those 18th century pundits sought to "cancel" it. Ridiculous!

I don't want people to be traumatized----but I also don't want the Arts to be so censored that the idea of free expression is lost.


Thank you for reminding me of that from my English Lit classes, I had forgotten "bowdlerize" which does not, actually, derive from bawdy like I imagined.


_________________
Just a few of my favorite things: music, chess, weather.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,060

11 May 2021, 2:14 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I am against the many excesses of the "Woke" generation.


Then it's up to you to make an articulate and informed rebuttal to their proposals. I tend to find a common pattern that those who oppose the revision of ideas is they never put forward a salient case.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: Poland

11 May 2021, 3:06 am

The way I see it - every era has its sensitivities and taboos. Apparently, that's how cultures work.
It's in architecture - old churches decorated, expanded, rebuilt and re-decorated for centuries can give fascinating view on history of human taste, sometimes compressed in one building. It's in music - modern interpretations of Baroque music is totally unlike records of Baroque music from 50 years ago. And it's in literature, resulting in variants and retelling traditional stories again and again.

I think both the originals and later variations are worth preserving. They tell us about how our cultures evolve. They tell us where we used to be and where we are, including what we carry from our past.
It's a very valuable knowledge.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,060

11 May 2021, 3:13 am

magz wrote:
I think both the originals and later variations are worth preserving. They tell us about how our cultures evolve. They tell us where we used to be and where we are, including what we carry from our past.
It's a very valuable knowledge.


That's why we have museums.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 75,734
Location: Queens, NYC

11 May 2021, 8:24 am

Salient means "prominent" or "important." I feel the most common definition employed in "real life" is "prominent." A very subjective term.

One person's "salient" could be another person's "junk" very easily.

My "salient" argument against some of the features of the Woke ideology-----is that it is taking away the "fun" from life. It is excessive. It can be even hypocritical at times.

In a small way, the Woke situation reminds me of the "Cultural Revolution" of China in the 1960s----where the policial elite, some of whom were youths with an axe to grind, took over the practical leadership of society. Many people were either sent to "re-education camps" or killed for not being "orthodox" in their beliefs. It was quite easy to diverge from the "orthodox."

Or like what happened in the religious wars of the Renaissance----where one could be executed for putting up two fingers at a certain moment instead of three.

Just like both communism and fascism are almost always quite hypocritical.

Of course, we must stamp out racism, sexism, and all the rest----they have no place in an enlightened society. But to go to extremes, to me, defeats the purpose.

My argument is "salient" because it is prominent. I can only aspire to "importance."



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,144
Location: Long Island, New York

11 May 2021, 11:43 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
In a small way, the Woke situation reminds me of the "Cultural Revolution" of China in the 1960s----where the policial elite, some of whom were youths with an axe to grind, took over the practical leadership of society. Many people were either sent to "re-education camps" or killed for not being "orthodox" in their beliefs. It was quite easy to diverge from the "orthodox."

Or like what happened in the religious wars of the Renaissance----where one could be executed for putting up two fingers at a certain moment instead of three.

Just like both communism and fascism are almost always quite hypocritical.
"

A number of people have compared cancel culture to the Cultural Revolution with its erasing of anybody with the slightest deviation from orthodoxy. Others have compared it to the Salem Witch Trials where an existential threat was identified and people looked and acted upon the slightest "proof" then of Satan, now white supremacy, toxic masculinity etc. These comparisons are hyperbole, a lot of people are not being killed when "found out". While I realize we are thankfully not close to those situations we are much closer to that than I prefer and moving in that direction at a speed I find petrifying

Another problem with all of this is overcorrections to the problem. "Owning the libs" is bullying to prove your anti PC bonofides. This owning the libs have given plain old bullies and worse to permission do their thing. Another overcorrection issue is fear of calling out or favoring canceling anything for fear of being a hypocrite to one's anti-cancel culture views.
I struggle with this.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,060

11 May 2021, 8:06 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Another problem with all of this is overcorrections to the problem. "Owning the libs" is bullying to prove your anti PC bonofides. This owning the libs have given plain old bullies and worse to permission do their thing. Another overcorrection issue is fear of calling out or favoring canceling anything for fear of being a hypocrite to one's anti-cancel culture views.
I struggle with this.


Can you clarify what you mean by this AS?